our receiving corps now miles better than the pats

[J. David Wannyheimer]

When healthy, Gronkowski is the best receiving weapon in the division.

I have a lot of questions about the Patriots this season, but they are not just going to roll over and play dead. I highly doubt Amendola will step in and perform at the level Wes Welker did right away, but he's a good football player and will do well for them. Gronkowski might make a full recovery and go on to play for another 5 years at a high level. Jake Ballard is a pretty intriguing player and could help soften the blow of losing Hernandez.

More than anything, I think the turnover is what's going to hurt them this year.

 

[nyjunc]

NE only had that lead becasue the D returned an interception for a TD, recovered a fumble which gave NE the ball on the Rams 40 which led to a score, and then forced and recovered a fumble that gave NE the ball on the Rams 33 which led to another score. The D allowed 2 scores in the second half which tied the game. That isn't as much pressure as being down.

The Giants were up 9-0 in the second quarter. Who cares that they blew the lead much earlier than NE D did. The Giants D didn't score a TD and put the O in easy spots to score like the NE defense did. Bottom line is Eli was down in the last few minutes of the game and went 88 yards to win it. If Eli didn't do much than Brady did even less.

The D played GREAT for 3 qtrs. but it's a 4 qtr game(and would have been 5 if not for the O) and the D blew an historic lead in the 4th qtr and if that game gets to OT and SL wisn the toss they are winning the SB.

9-0 early is not a big lead, by halftime they were down 10-9. After NE scored on their first possession of the 2nd half they wouldn't score again allowing the O to come back.

The Giants D didn't score a TD but they did score a safety then give the O great FP off the free kick to set up the 9-0 lead or do we forget that?

I didn't say Eli didn't play well but what he faced was nothing like what Brady faced w/ just over a minute to play, NO TOs, all the momentum on SLs side and being a FIRST year starter. Eli's first full year he got shut out at HOME in his first playoff game.

 

[rrrrphin]

I'll be interested to see how defenses adjust to the new N.E. offense. I don't think they'll see nickel and dime packages 80-90 % of the time. Their running game will not be as successful against true seven man fronts.
I think Brady will be facing a lot more pressure with blitzes as well as the receiving corp is scaring no one at the moment.

 

[The New Guy]

The D played GREAT for 3 qtrs. but it's a 4 qtr game(and would have been 5 if not for the O) and the D blew an historic lead in the 4th qtr and if that game gets to OT and SL wisn the toss they are winning the SB.

9-0 early is not a big lead, by halftime they were down 10-9. After NE scored on their first possession of the 2nd half they wouldn't score again allowing the O to come back.

The Giants D didn't score a TD but they did score a safety then give the O great FP off the free kick to set up the 9-0 lead or do we forget that?

I didn't say Eli didn't play well but what he faced was nothing like what Brady faced w/ just over a minute to play, NO TOs, all the momentum on SLs side and being a FIRST year starter. Eli's first full year he got shut out at HOME in his first playoff game.

So your opinion would be different if the NE D held the Rams to 10 points in the first half, 7 in the third quarter and then 0 in the 4th? It is about the overall performance of the D. If it wasn't for the D playing lights out in the first 3 quarters, it wouldn't have even been a game.

9-0 isn't a big lead but what is the difference had they allowed 10 points in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th quarter? It is about the overall performance. The Giants D got a safety and the Giants started on their own 22. You call that great FP?

The NE D scored a TD and set NE up on the Rams 33 and 40 which gave them the lead. That is a much bigger role than what the Giants D did. Don't get me wrong, the Giants D played great and was a huge reason they won those Super Bowls but you can't say Brady is THE reason they won that SB and turn around and say Eli didn't do much.

 

[nyjunc]

So your opinion would be different if the NE D held the Rams to 10 points in the first half, 7 in the third quarter and then 0 in the 4th? It is about the overall performance of the D. If it wasn't for the D playing lights out in the first 3 quarters, it wouldn't have even been a game.

9-0 isn't a big lead but what is the difference had they allowed 10 points in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th quarter? It is about the overall performance. The Giants D got a safety and the Giants started on their own 22. You call that great FP?

The NE D scored a TD and set NE up on the Rams 33 and 40 which gave them the lead. That is a much bigger role than what the Giants D did. Don't get me wrong, the Giants D played great and was a huge reason they won those Super Bowls but you can't say Brady is THE reason they won that SB and turn around and say Eli didn't do much.

They blew an historic lead, played great for 3 qtrs. but that all went out the window when they blew that historic lead.

The overall performance the Giants D played great and never choked by giving up a big lead. They

2001 SL averaged 31 PPG, NE held them to 17. +14
2007 NE averaged 37 PPG, NYG held them to 14. +23
2011 NE averaged 32 PPG, NYG held them to 17. +15

NYG did a better job and didn't blow any big 4th qtr leads.


AGAIN, I said Brady RESCUED the D. I never said he was THE reason they won. You are making things up. Eli played very well but that game isn't close if NYG's D doesn't play incredibly well. NE's D played incredibly well for 3 qtrs. but when it came time to win the game they disappeared. That's BAD.

 

[The New Guy]

They blew an historic lead, played great for 3 qtrs. but that all went out the window when they blew that historic lead.

The overall performance the Giants D played great and never choked by giving up a big lead. They

2001 SL averaged 31 PPG, NE held them to 17. +14
2007 NE averaged 37 PPG, NYG held them to 14. +23
2011 NE averaged 32 PPG, NYG held them to 17. +15

NYG did a better job and didn't blow any big 4th qtr leads.


AGAIN, I said Brady RESCUED the D. I never said he was THE reason they won. You are making things up. Eli played very well but that game isn't close if NYG's D doesn't play incredibly well. NE's D played incredibly well for 3 qtrs. but when it came time to win the game they disappeared. That's BAD.

It was a 2 score game at the start of the 4th quarter and the main reason for that was because the D held the Rams to 3 points, scored 7 and set up NE after turnovers for the other 2 scores. I don't care when the points come. The most important thing is how they performed overall. If Brady and the O would have put up more than 10 points (Which they only scored when the D set them up on the Rams 33 and 40) they wouldn't have tied the game at 17.

It is +14 and you have to add in the Int return for a TD and the other pick and forced fumble that led to the only scores NE had before the last drive. The NE D easily did the better job.

Brady was THE reason they even made the playoffs let alone won SBs.

I don't make stuff up. Was that not supposed to include SB XXXVI? Eli played a much bigger role in his SB win than Brady did.

 

[nyjunc]

It was a 2 score game at the start of the 4th quarter and the main reason for that was because the D held the Rams to 3 points, scored 7 and set up NE after turnovers for the other 2 scores. I don't care when the points come. The most important thing is how they performed overall. If Brady and the O would have put up more than 10 points (Which they only scored when the D set them up on the Rams 33 and 40) they wouldn't have tied the game at 17.

It is +14 and you have to add in the Int return for a TD and the other pick and forced fumble that led to the only scores NE had before the last drive. The NE D easily did the better job.



I don't make stuff up. Was that not supposed to include SB XXXVI? Eli played a much bigger role in his SB win than Brady did.

No debate from me about NE's D the first 3 qtrs. but when it came time to win the SB the D folded and the O rescued them.

We have to add pts and TOs for NE but not for NYG?

Eli wasn't faced w/ the same circumstances, NE had a lead and they played conservatively w/ a FIRST year QB(again in Eli's first full year he was shutout in the WC rd at HOME) but when the game was on the line they let Brady play and he came through. He didn't need a ball to stick to a helmet or a disputed sideline catch, he led perhaps the greatest drive in SB history.

 

[The New Guy]

No debate from me about NE's D the first 3 qtrs. but when it came time to win the SB the D folded and the O rescued them.

We have to add pts and TOs for NE but not for NYG?

Eli wasn't faced w/ the same circumstances, NE had a lead and they played conservatively w/ a FIRST year QB(again in Eli's first full year he was shutout in the WC rd at HOME) but when the game was on the line they let Brady play and he came through. He didn't need a ball to stick to a helmet or a disputed sideline catch, he led perhaps the greatest drive in SB history.

The O didn't rescue the D. They made up for their own poor play the entire game. All of NE's points before that last drive came as a direct result of the D. The Rams went on a long drive in the 4th and scored a TD after they were held to just 3 points in 3 quarters. When they needed the O to give them a breather after that long drive when they made it 17-10, the O went 3 and out. The D still held the Rams on the next drive and the O went 3 and out again. When you stick the D out there like that over and over against an O like the Rams, what do you expect to happen?

No, examine them both. NE was +14 based on the Rams average, but scored 7 on an interception return, intercepted another pass which put the NE O on the Rams 33 and forced and recovered a fumble which put the NE O on the Rams 40. The Rams never led from the 2nd quarter on and the D was the main reason why. Brady threw for 145 yards and 53 of those yards came on the last drive. Brady led 1 TD drive and it was only 40 yards long.

The Giants were +15 (a 1 point difference), and scored a safety. The best FP the Giants O had was when they started on the NE 48 when they forced a 3 and out. Eli threw for 296 yards and led 88 and 78 yard TD drives.

NE D scored 7 points
NE D put O on Rams 33
NE D put O on Rams 40

Giants D scored 2 points
Giants D helped put the O on the NE 48

NYG did the better job to you? Really?

Stop making excuses. We are not comparing a first year QB to 4 year QB. We aren't comparing the Giants 2007 SB to NE's 2001 SB. We are only talking about you saying that Brady was THE reason they won that SB and then saying that Eli did little in SB XXXVI. You would have a more accurate argument if you reversed that statement.

 

[PATS16N0]

I'm actually excited to see the Dolphins in action. It's nice to just stream roll the AFC East, and I think we're taking the division for sure, and Brady is always capable of a deep play off run, but this year just feels exciting for AFC East fans.

 

[nyjunc]

The O didn't rescue the D. They made up for their own poor play the entire game. All of NE's points before that last drive came as a direct result of the D. The Rams went on a long drive in the 4th and scored a TD after they were held to just 3 points in 3 quarters. When they needed the O to give them a breather after that long drive when they made it 17-10, the O went 3 and out. The D still held the Rams on the next drive and the O went 3 and out again. When you stick the D out there like that over and over against an O like the Rams, what do you expect to happen?

No, examine them both. NE was +14 based on the Rams average, but scored 7 on an interception return, intercepted another pass which put the NE O on the Rams 33 and forced and recovered a fumble which put the NE O on the Rams 40. The Rams never led from the 2nd quarter on and the D was the main reason why. Brady threw for 145 yards and 53 of those yards came on the last drive. Brady led 1 TD drive and it was only 40 yards long.

The Giants were +15 (a 1 point difference), and scored a safety. The best FP the Giants O had was when they started on the NE 48 when they forced a 3 and out. Eli threw for 296 yards and led 88 and 78 yard TD drives.

NE D scored 7 points
NE D put O on Rams 33
NE D put O on Rams 40

Giants D scored 2 points
Giants D helped put the O on the NE 48

NYG did the better job to you? Really?

Stop making excuses. We are not comparing a first year QB to 4 year QB. We aren't comparing the Giants 2007 SB to NE's 2001 SB. We are only talking about you saying that Brady was THE reason they won that SB and then saying that Eli did little in SB XXXVI. You would have a more accurate argument if you reversed that statement.

The O did rescue the D, if they fail in that spot there's a great chance NE loses that SB and becomes the biggest chokers in SB history, they saved the franchise and the legacy of that defense.

The D played great for 3 qtrs. but they blew an historic lead, I'm not sure why this keeps slipping past you?

Is the 40 the 1? they still had to move the ball and score, right? it would have been easy to settle for 3 but they scored a TD and when the game was on the line the NE O got the ball at their 17 w/ just over a minute left an NO TOs.

The NE D scored and gave NYG the ball back on a safety- that was the biggest play in the game and a major reason why Tuck should have been the MVP.

NYG wouldn't score again until it was 17-9 and their next 2 FGs drives began on the NYG 35 and NE 48.

NYG's D FINISHED the game, NE's D in XXXVI failed to finish the game. Both played great for most of those games but only one finished strong.

I have never said Brady was THE reason they won that SB, I have said he RESCUED the team and D, I have said they don't make the playoffs if he doesn't become their starter but I haven't said he was THE reason they won it.

Eli was excellent in both SB runs and had excellent moments in both SBs but they made it b/c of D/STs and they won both SBs b/c their D held historically great offenses under 20 pts.

 

[The New Guy]

The O did rescue the D, if they fail in that spot there's a great chance NE loses that SB and becomes the biggest chokers in SB history, they saved the franchise and the legacy of that defense.

The D played great for 3 qtrs. but they blew an historic lead, I'm not sure why this keeps slipping past you?

Is the 40 the 1? they still had to move the ball and score, right? it would have been easy to settle for 3 but they scored a TD and when the game was on the line the NE O got the ball at their 17 w/ just over a minute left an NO TOs.

The NE D scored and gave NYG the ball back on a safety- that was the biggest play in the game and a major reason why Tuck should have been the MVP.

NYG wouldn't score again until it was 17-9 and their next 2 FGs drives began on the NYG 35 and NE 48.

NYG's D FINISHED the game, NE's D in XXXVI failed to finish the game. Both played great for most of those games but only one finished strong.

I have never said Brady was THE reason they won that SB, I have said he RESCUED the team and D, I have said they don't make the playoffs if he doesn't become their starter but I haven't said he was THE reason they won it.

Eli was excellent in both SB runs and had excellent moments in both SBs but they made it b/c of D/STs and they won both SBs b/c their D held historically great offenses under 20 pts.

You said:

Brady was THE reason they even made the playoffs let alone won SBs.

If you didn't mean SB XXVI or want to change your mind, that's fine. In that first run, the D was the main reason they made it to the SB and won it. Not Brady I don't really care about blowing a lead when they held the Rams to 3 point through 3 quarters and scored 7 while putting the O in outstanding FP for the other 2 scores they had. The NE O is a huge reason why the Rams were able to tie the game. They didn't score a single point without being put in great FP by the D creating turnovers, and when the D needed them to run a little clock to get a breather, they went 3 and out on both drives. I'm not sure why this keeps slipping past you.

The Giants D got a safety on the second drive of the game. The Giants O drove 79 yards to make it a 9-0 game in the second quarter. The D gave up 10 points on 3 NE drives in the second quarter and another 7 points at the start of the 3rd quarter to make it 17-9. Why does it matter when they blew the lead? They blew the lead but held NE to only 17 points. That is what really matters. How many points you give up and how many opportunities you give to the O to take the lead. NE's O was given plenty of opportunities to increase the lead which they never did. The NE D never allowed the Rams to take the lead. The Giants D did. The NE D gave up 17 while scoring 7 and putting the O on the 33 and 40 yardline. All the NE O needed was 2 scores to win the game and they were put in outstanding FP 2 times.

The Giants D gave up 17 points while scoring a safety and the best FP they had was at the NE 48. The O needed to score 3 times and were only in good FP once.

Both played great, but overall the NE D played better. Ask any coach in the NFL which defensive game he would take. A D that hold the opponent to 17 points while scoring a TD and putting the O on the opponents 33 and 40, or a D that holds the opponent to 17 points while scoring a safety and puts the O on the opponents 48. They won't care if the points given up are spread out equally through 4 quarters or if they all came in 1 quarter. All they care about is the total amount and if the O had opportunists to win it. All they would care about is the fact that they only need 2 scores to win and would have the ball on the opponents 33 and 40 yardline. That is a much better situation than needing 3 scores and the best FP being the 48.

Holding a great offense under 20 pts doesn't mean much when you are losing in the last couple minutes of the game. If Brady rescued the NE D when the game was tied, then Eli did more for the Giants D when they were losing.

 

[nyjunc]

You said:



If you didn't mean SB XXVI or want to change your mind, that's fine. In that first run, the D was the main reason they made it to the SB and won it. Not Brady I don't really care about blowing a lead when they held the Rams to 3 point through 3 quarters and scored 7 while putting the O in outstanding FP for the other 2 scores they had. The NE O is a huge reason why the Rams were able to tie the game. They didn't score a single point without being put in great FP by the D creating turnovers, and when the D needed them to run a little clock to get a breather, they went 3 and out on both drives. I'm not sure why this keeps slipping past you.

The Giants D got a safety on the second drive of the game. The Giants O drove 79 yards to make it a 9-0 game in the second quarter. The D gave up 10 points on 3 NE drives in the second quarter and another 7 points at the start of the 3rd quarter to make it 17-9. Why does it matter when they blew the lead? They blew the lead but held NE to only 17 points. That is what really matters. How many points you give up and how many opportunities you give to the O to take the lead. NE's O was given plenty of opportunities to increase the lead which they never did. The NE D never allowed the Rams to take the lead. The Giants D did. The NE D gave up 17 while scoring 7 and putting the O on the 33 and 40 yardline. All the NE O needed was 2 scores to win the game and they were put in outstanding FP 2 times.

The Giants D gave up 17 points while scoring a safety and the best FP they had was at the NE 48. The O needed to score 3 times and were only in good FP once.

Both played great, but overall the NE D played better. Ask any coach in the NFL which defensive game he would take. A D that hold the opponent to 17 points while scoring a TD and putting the O on the opponents 33 and 40, or a D that holds the opponent to 17 points while scoring a safety and puts the O on the opponents 48. They won't care if the points given up are spread out equally through 4 quarters or if they all came in 1 quarter. All they care about is the total amount and if the O had opportunists to win it. All they would care about is the fact that they only need 2 scores to win and would have the ball on the opponents 33 and 40 yardline. That is a much better situation than needing 3 scores and the best FP being the 48.

Holding a great offense under 20 pts doesn't mean much when you are losing in the last couple minutes of the game. If Brady rescued the NE D when the game was tied, then Eli did more for the Giants D when they were losing.

The reason they made the playoffs, yep. They don't make it if he doesn't take over but their D played great in postseason until the 4th qtr of the SB where they collapsed only to be rescued by Brady and the offense.

That safety didn't give NYG any momentum? they just had a long drive and NE's D had to go right back on the field after one play.

a 9 pt lead in the 1st qtr is very different than a 14 pt lead in the 4th which had NEVER been blown in SB history. A double digit lead has been blown in the 4th qtr just 3 times, 2 of them were those "great" NE defenses.

You can't play better of you are the first team in SB history(in the 36th SB) to blow a 14 pt 4th qtr lead. All the grat play is thrown out the window when that happens.

Eli was never in a situation where he had a min left, no TOs and inside his 20.

 

[AphexPhin]

Fins definitely have the superior WRs BUT NE still has Brady so never count them out