PhinsPhan11
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That's very cool, I was a little surprised to see Bess on the list.
Peter King's mid-season All-Pro team - 3 Dolphins on it!
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mrbeaver
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Some of you guys are being way too hard on Nyjunc. He is actually speaking the truth here about Bess. Yes he is very good, but to call him the third best receiver in the league really hurts the credibility of the whole list.
Jimi
The World Is Yours
Penthos
Am I on speaker phone?
Junc doesn't think Wes Welker is anything more than a "good" receiver. However, if that were true I think that Belichick would have replaced him by now with someone cheaper, if not younger.
The position of "slot" receiver is a specialized position and certain receivers (like Bess or Welker) are better suited for and better at it than others.
Nobody called him the third best receiver in the league. King basically feels he is the best "slot" receiver in the league. Why is that so freaking difficult for people to grasp?
AP teams do not designate the best slot WR, it's the top WRs in the game. It's asinine to have Bess even mentioned as an AP. That's NOT a shot on Bess, he's a good player but he's not AP caliber as of now.
Welker isn't breaking the bank in NE and again like Bess he is a GOOD player. Randy Moss made him look much better than he actually is.
Penthos
Am I on speaker phone?
This is "Peter King's" All Pro team. Not some officially sanctioned NFL All Pro team. And it appears that King IS differentiating between "Wide Receivers" and "Slot Receivers". And in the realm of "slot receivers" Bess is one of the best. It's King's list, he can determine it any way he wants.
To me, it really just seems like you just can't stand the fact that he put Bess on there. Because if you really didn't "care" you wouldn't have a half dozen posts on this thread criticizing his selection.
You guys think for me it's about bess being a dolphin but it has nothing to do w/ that. if he deserved it I'd applaud him no matter what team he was on but any sane football fan know bess and all-pro do not go together.
Like I said, this year Welker has not been as good as years past, it is very obvious that he has not been the same receiver since coming back, I'm not saying Moss did not help Welker, of course he did, but Brady is not looking as good either. By the way, Welker has not caught a TD in the last 5 games, 2 of those Moss was there, WElker may not be 100%.
Welker without Moss has:
avg 4.6 rec, 34 yrds a game for an avg of 7.3 yrd a catch, and NO TDS.
Compare that with what Welker did his last year in Miami w/ Joey Harrington at QB:
4 rec,42 yrds a game for 10yrds a catch, 1 TD.
Are we saying that without Moss, Joey and Tom Brady are the same quality QB, throwing to Welker? Welker is not a #1 receiver, on both those teams he was, and look at those stats.
No, a band of misfits won three SBs, thanks 1st to great coaching (especially on D), 2nd the greatness of a FG kicker that had ice in his viens, and then 3rd, Tom Brady.
Once Tom had the great Moss and Welker to throw to, but lost that great kicker, his stats looked awesome in the reg season, but once he got into the post season, should have lost to the Jags, and should have lost to the Chargers, until he actually lost to the Giants.
Brady would be the MVP if the season ended today so how is he not looking good? and he is doing it w/ mediocre talent around him.
Welker is what he is, he's a good, reliable #2 or #2 WR. he has never been great but he has looked great at times b/c of all the attention Moss commanded in that offense opening things up for Welker.
How many SBs did that great coaching win w/o Brady? Heck, how many playoff games? last I checked NE had that "great coahcing" and the FG kicker in 2000 when they were 5-11 and the beginning of '01 when they started 0-2 w/o Brady. Then magically they won 11 of 14 reg season games en route to the SB, I wonder why that was?
Did Tom lead his team to 16-0 and a SB appearance w/o the Kicker? They lost that SB b/c after he led them on an 80 yd TD drive his "great" defense choked and allowed a TD in the final minute. Unfortunately for them unlike the SB s in '01 and '03 Tom didn't have enough time to rescue that D again.
Junc please, everytime I see some post that has praise for a Miami Dolphins player, I am very sure somewhere you came on to give a reason why that player does not deserve that praise.
For doing what? He has been very good, not great, only lately has the Patriots looked like world beater. He had the Jets beat, they lost their best CB, and still could not beat the Jets.
If not for the way the ST played, Brady looked good, but not enough to beat Miami. Miami's ST plays well against the Patriots, even with the INTs that Henne threw, Miami still has a good chance of beating the Pats.
I agree with this, but he is also something else, he is one of the best slot receivers out there, as someone already stated, being a slot receiver is a skill in itself.
I don't know, we still don't know how Brady would do without that great HC he has. What I do know is, without Brady in 08, they were just as successful as in 09 with Brady.
Please, everyone that saw the way the Pats looked in the playoffs, could see they were living on borrowed time, and some of the blame came with the way they looked on Offense, Brady is a very good QB, at worst top 5, and probably 2nd best in the NFL, but he is not Payton.
That is all perception, I guarantee you if you removed my username and had no idea who was psoting you would think the posts were fair but b/c I am a Jet fan you guys think I am anti-Dolphin. I am always fair.
For doing what? he has nothing around him yet he has his team w/ the best record in the league.
The Jets are better than the Pats pretty much everywhere except at QB, losing to us is not a bad loss and that is their ONLY loss.
You guys only scored 14 pts against NE, you act like it was our game last year where we lost by 5 and you scored 3 non offensive TDs. Evene if you take those 3 TDs away NE still had more points.
Brady made the Pats and belichick as a HC. Remember they went from 16 wins w/ Brady as a starter in '07 to 10 wins w/ cassell as a starter against a MUCH easier sched.
He has had a better career than Peyton when you factor everything in. Brady was always the winner and Manning the stats guy then Brady got weapons comparable to what manning had his entire career and he broke records AND won. Manning is the better fantasy QB, Brady the better real QB. Stats are great but if you cannot perform in the biggest games what do those stats really mean?
hoops
Tua time!
bess is a pretty good player...i could see him being in a pro bowl if they brought a slot guy...but a top 5 wr in the afc...
hell no
hell no
Untrue, if you changed you username, and I kept seeing you attack Dolphin players as much as you do, I would still say something to you. I have already a good amount of time, posted against so called Dolphin fans that seem to be negative ever single time.
He has stepped up only lately, and still he has not been as dominant as Manning normally is. Like I said, Brady is a very good QB, would love him on my team, but not the best, sorry.
:lol2: Ummm, no....Not even close, I think there is a severe storm coming up, and when the Jets see the Pats again, it will hit your team much harder then the winds last week in the Meadowlands.
And they scored 20 Points on Offense, if you take away the ST points. You think Miami could not make a drive to win the game if the game was closer?
How many wins did they have in 09 with Brady?
Brady was the benificiary of a defense that played like a top unit (Most games were close for pats, Manning had an inconsistant D), Brady had a FG kicker that was even better in in pressure time (The Colts had a FG Kicker stat wise was one of the best, but seemed to every so often choke when in pressure), Brady had better Coaching, Payton had very good Coaching, but more then Brady, was relied on to be the Field genereal, see what was going on w/ the Opponant defense, and change as many time as he say a good matchup.
I don't attack, that is your perception. Just look at this thread, you think I "attacked" Bess but that's not the case. I said he's a good player but not an AP candidate. It's all perception.
You can have Manning and win your fantasy leagues, I'll take Brady and win real leagues.
Where are the Pats better than us besides at QB? OL? No, RBs? No, WRs? No, TE? they have more quality TEs but we have the best.
DL? maybe this is the only spot w/ jenkins out. LBs? No, DBs? No STs? No
QB and NT are the 2 spots they get the edge in.
Miami couldn't make a drive to tie the game against us in the final mins or win the game against Pitt so why would I ssume they would have won w/ none of theose non offensive TDs?
10 wins in '09 and won the division in a better year for the division.
Brady played in alot of close games and performed in the biggest moments in those close games which makes what he has done even more impressive. His D was not nearly as good as people think. In playoff games w/ Brady and Manning the Indy D's have allowed LESS points in regulation than the "great" NE D's. The difference btw the 2 teams has come at QB.
Bill Belichick coached for 6+ years w/o Brady and never got close to a SB
Adam Vintieri kicked for 5 years before Brady arrived and never won a SB
Vinatieri has now kicked for Manning the last 4+ years- how come he only has one SB title?
NE became a dynasty b/c of the QB
Indy didn't become a dynasty b/c of their QB(and they should have been a dynasty team)