Question For CK and Others RE: Barkley | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Question For CK and Others RE: Barkley

Nappy Roots said:
I must admit, it is funny to me that me and you were basically the only ones so high on Yates. I really wish we had that kid. Any word on how he has looking so far with Houston? Obviously hasn't played in games, but meaning camp and practices.
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I've heard all the good things you normally hear about guys that were drafted and are able to stick with thier teams, a lot of optimism, etc. He didn't have such a great preseason but that's very common for rookie QBs. Even Cam Newton didn't look great in his first couple of games as a Panther, in preseason.

Yates is a point of pride for me because I was talking about him for a very long time and rating him at the very worst a mid round prospect at times when literally nobody else wanted to acknowledge that he was even a draftable prospect. He gets snubbed by the Senior Bowl and even snubbed by the Shrine Game, and guys like Chad Reuter and Wes Bunting are grading him undraftable, along with the more famous guys like Kiper and McShay. Mayock never talked about him, pretended he didn't exist. But he went in the 5th round. Obviously the Texans saw some of the same things I did.

Mike Kafka was the same way. I was talking about him a ton at a time when nobody even wanted to acknolwedge that he existed. Then suddenly Andy Reid takes him in the 4th round.
 
Gonzo said:
I wish he was a baller.

Anybody?


Regarding Weeden, his age isn't my biggest concern, it's his shoulder. The only ones that will have a decent insight to that are the team doctors, and even then we only have to look at our own history to see how that can go terribly wrong (Brees).
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I thought I was the only one who caught that lol....

[video=youtube;v8BY86AO5Bs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8BY86AO5Bs[/video]
 
I think everyone believes in Andrew Luck, but my 'other guy' is Matt Barkley all the way. He's my #1 choice should we not get Luck.

However, with his chance at a BCS Title next year, he'll have tough decision to make. I think his status from the advisory board as well as his vision for USC will be the deciding factor. As of now, USC is returning Robert Woods, Marqise Lee, George Farmer, Moody McNeal, Randall Telfer and Xavier Grimble on offense as weapons for Barkley. That is a LOT of talent for Matt Barkley.
 
I've always praised Barkley's accuracy, called it things like "eery" and "insane". I'm about a third to a half way through cataloging all of Barkley's throw videos from this season.

Given that half of Matt Barkley's throws are little screen passes, roll-out plays to his throwing side with a little dink and dunk pass to the flat, or some check down pass that travels less than 20 yards thru the air...Barkley's accuracy is insane. Even if you isolate the 50% of harder passes.

I'll save the results for when the whole thing is done but those flawless heel-to-finger mechanics result is in very, very, very few pure misses.
 
the more and more i look at Barkley's game the less i like him as a prospect. His downfield throws are horribly inaccurate, and yeah the deep ball is overrated when judging qb's but this guy is all over the place on a lot of his deep passes. Every elite Qb in the NFL has an accurate deep ball and that's a fact.

with that said i think i'd still take him over landry jones because he just makes some awful decision. That offense in oaklahoma makes it so hard to judge how much of the passing success is on the Qb or the system.

to be completely honest if Ryan Mallet was in this draft he might have been my second pick behind Luck.


oh and i love weeden but the whole age thing really does worry me.
 
next-year said:
the more and more i look at Barkley's game the less i like him as a prospect. His downfield throws are horribly inaccurate, and yeah the deep ball is overrated when judging qb's but this guy is all over the place on a lot of his deep passes. Every elite Qb in the NFL has an accurate deep ball and that's a fact.
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Your facts don't really stand up to the smell test.

I've got each and every one of Barkley's throws clipped and I've got about half of them cataloged by now. He completes about 1 out of 3 of his deep passes, which is perfectly in line with the NFL averages. Additionally, about 1 out of 3 of his deep passes are on target, but not caught, either due to drops or because of good coverage. He only throws about 1 in 3 deep balls uncatchable.

And it's funny you mentioned Ryan Mallett too because there's one deep ball of Barkley's that had me curious. The ball went 61 yards through the air off a 7 step drop play-action with a little roll to the right side. There was no hesitation in throwing the ball, Barkley got it out immediately. But it came down about 3 yards deep into the end zone and the receiver had to slow down for it and I wondered on a ball that traveled 60+ yards through the air and with Barkley not hesitating off the drop at all, why did the receiver have to slow down to where he got interfered with? Was it because Barkley put too much air under it? Using my software I was able to show that the average ball speed to its target was 41.8 mph. So I looked back at some old Ryan Mallett throws. I found one where Mallett heaved the thing 52 yards through the air. Average ball speed was 42.3 mph. In other words, the difference in their deep ball is negligible.

And you know what the other funny thing about Mallett's deep passes was? Looking back at all the deep balls I cataloged of Mallett's from the whole year last year, that 52 yard ball was the longest I could find. In just 4 games that I've cataloged for Barkley, I've already found 6 deep passes that traveled longer than 52 yards through the air to their destination.

There goes THAT theory.
 
This isn't the infamous deep ball but this should give you a taste of Matt Barkley's throwing from the pocket at intermediate distances. Read the description of the video if you'd like to know how I selected the clips from this video. It was purely by type and distance criterion, not by throw result (e.g. "highlights"). I've cataloged throws from Barkley in a number of games by type (roll-out, screen, pocket) and again by distance through the air as the crow flies (< 23 yards, 23 to 39 yards, 40+ yards).

[video=youtube;_djxg-xSg0Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_djxg-xSg0Q[/video]
 
ckparrothead said:
This isn't the infamous deep ball but this should give you a taste of Matt Barkley's throwing from the pocket at intermediate distances.
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I think his ability to roll out is what makes him even more dangerous. The kid is good on the move. Anyone questioning his deep throws hasn't watched enough of him.
 
WelcomeBack said:
I think his ability to roll out is what makes him even more dangerous. The kid is good on the move. Anyone questioning his deep throws hasn't watched enough of him.
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I have a whole collection of roll-out clips that weren't included in that video, too.
 
who knows what that guy next year is talkin about...makes no sense...barkleys deep ball and ball placement has looked money to me...and the fades over the outside shoulder pretty much text book

but what really stands out to me about barkley is the feet...he's got fantastic feet for a pretty average mobility guy...those feet get him out of a lot of jams...this kid sidesteps stuff in the pocket with his head up and looking downfield

anyways...dvrs set for tonight 9pm espn against colorado...lookin forward to it
 
I would love to have Andrew Luck but I would be doing cartwheels if Barkley comes out and we are able to draft him at #2. He reminds me of a young Joe Montana.
 
AP27 said:
I would love to have Andrew Luck but I would be doing cartwheels if Barkley comes out and we are able to draft him at #2. He reminds me of a young Joe Montana.
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Yeah. Honestly, if we don't finish with the #1 pick I think that's really the best possible scenario.
 
Barkley is a little vanilla for me. His INT rate hasn't been stellar but seems to be improving. He's overall pretty solid, but at 6'2" (some report him as 6'3" but he doesn't look it to me) I can't get excited about any kind of high ceiling he might have.

Jones is a statue and given that almost all of his passes are little screens in a very un-NFL scheme, I don't think his success is much of a barometer of anything.

RG3 and Tannehill are the ones that excite me. Griffen isn't a tall guy either, but man is he dynamic. He makes things happen and he'll have an NFL future. Tannehill needs a little time, but I see him being a great QB in a few years.
 
ckparrothead said:
Your facts don't really stand up to the smell test.

I've got each and every one of Barkley's throws clipped and I've got about half of them cataloged by now. He completes about 1 out of 3 of his deep passes, which is perfectly in line with the NFL averages. Additionally, about 1 out of 3 of his deep passes are on target, but not caught, either due to drops or because of good coverage. He only throws about 1 in 3 deep balls uncatchable.

And it's funny you mentioned Ryan Mallett too because there's one deep ball of Barkley's that had me curious. The ball went 61 yards through the air off a 7 step drop play-action with a little roll to the right side. There was no hesitation in throwing the ball, Barkley got it out immediately. But it came down about 3 yards deep into the end zone and the receiver had to slow down for it and I wondered on a ball that traveled 60+ yards through the air and with Barkley not hesitating off the drop at all, why did the receiver have to slow down to where he got interfered with? Was it because Barkley put too much air under it? Using my software I was able to show that the average ball speed to its target was 41.8 mph. So I looked back at some old Ryan Mallett throws. I found one where Mallett heaved the thing 52 yards through the air. Average ball speed was 42.3 mph. In other words, the difference in their deep ball is negligible.

And you know what the other funny thing about Mallett's deep passes was? Looking back at all the deep balls I cataloged of Mallett's from the whole year last year, that 52 yard ball was the longest I could find. In just 4 games that I've cataloged for Barkley, I've already found 6 deep passes that traveled longer than 52 yards through the air to their destination.

There goes THAT theory.
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you just compared deep balls by how fast they were going, and on two completely different plays, qb's decide on how much loft they want to put on their ball. The fact that mallet threw it for less yards at basically the same speed proves absolutely nothing. can we agree on this? ALSO all you did was compare the two deepest throws you saw them make, and used the fact that you saw Barkley complete a deeper pass as the basis to tell me that Barkley has a better deep ball.

every scout in the league will agree that barkley's deep ball us subpar, but for some reason you know better then them right ? you may have impressed a few people on finheaven with your long, unimpressive rebuttal to something that i posted, but not me. It smacks you in the face when you see a collection of barkley's passes downfield (not counting his 20-25 yard fades which are on point) that he loses an insane amount of accuracy after about 35-40 yards.

Oh and Whats THEORY are you talking about? there was no theory stated Barkley has a weak inaccurate deep ball.

Go annoy someone on this board who actually deserves it like the henne defenders or the people saying marshall is the reason we have lost every game.
 
I would love to double up at QB. Its either Luck/Barkley then someone like Harnish at lower end of draft.

If we can devolop him as a solid back up great......then maybe like A.Reid has done for years, with good marketing we can 'oversell' and trade.
 
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