The 2007 Mets Thread | Page 66 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

The 2007 Mets Thread

Boik14 said:
Just for suggesting such an awful deal you deserve warm beer. Seriously that a herschel walker type deal there and who wants qualls and his almost 5 era? Id be ticked if we gave anything more then Milledge humber and a low level prospect as qualls and loretta hold almost no value to me. Loretta is old and looks like a bench player so far this year and qualls is no better then schoenweis.
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Qualls has a 3.75 ERA this year and a K/BB ratio of just under 3 to 1. He is significantly better than Schoenweis. But heck, drop Heilman and Qualls from the deal; there's not a huge difference between them (except perhaps the fact that I trust Heilman about as far as I can throw him).

My thought is that the Astros would want two top prospects (Milledge and Pelfrey), a starter who won't totally embarass himself (Sosa...except for Saturday) and a live arm who might be something (Burgos) for Oswalt. And you know what? I would be just fine with that, because Oswalt is that good. He's slipped a touch this year, but then, that might be the reason that he's being mentioned at all.

As for Mulvey for Loretta, Mulvey's a B prospect and Loretta's an above-average 2B. That's the going rate, even with Loretta getting up in years.
 
phunwin said:
Qualls has a 3.75 ERA this year and a K/BB ratio of just under 3 to 1. He is significantly better than Schoenweis. But heck, drop Heilman and Qualls from the deal; there's not a huge difference between them (except perhaps the fact that I trust Heilman about as far as I can throw him).

My thought is that the Astros would want two top prospects (Milledge and Pelfrey), a starter who won't totally embarass himself (Sosa...except for Saturday) and a live arm who might be something (Burgos) for Oswalt. And you know what? I would be just fine with that, because Oswalt is that good. He's slipped a touch this year, but then, that might be the reason that he's being mentioned at all.

As for Mulvey for Loretta, Mulvey's a B prospect and Loretta's an above-average 2B. That's the going rate, even with Loretta getting up in years.
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Im not trading milledge with alou and green being terrible deffensively at best and chavez still hurt. And Green is nothing special offensively either. If they wanted to take Gomez no problem.

As far as Mulvey, hes been our best pitching prospect this year and is looking more like he may eventually be another Maine. Would you trade Maine for Loretta? Id laugh at the thought.
 
Boik14 said:
Im not trading milledge with alou and green being terrible deffensively at best and chavez still hurt. And Green is nothing special offensively either. If they wanted to take Gomez no problem.
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So call up Ben Johnson as a defensive replacement; that's the whole reason they traded for him in the first place. Gomez can't be traded, anyway, he's on the DL.

As far as Mulvey, hes been our best pitching prospect this year and is looking more like he may eventually be another Maine. Would you trade Maine for Loretta? Id laugh at the thought.
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That's interesting logic. You could use that argument to defuse any possible prospect-for-veteran trade. "Well, Ambiorix Burgos could be another Billy Wagner. You wouldn't include Wagner in a Roy Oswalt trade, would you?"

Now, to be fair, Mulvey for Loretta straight up is probably a bit much. But as part of an Oswalt deal, that might be the sweetener the Astros need to pull the trigger.
 
phunwin said:
So call up Ben Johnson as a defensive replacement; that's the whole reason they traded for him in the first place. Gomez can't be traded, anyway, he's on the DL.



That's interesting logic. You could use that argument to defuse any possible prospect-for-veteran trade. "Well, Ambiorix Burgos could be another Billy Wagner. You wouldn't include Wagner in a Roy Oswalt trade, would you?"

Now, to be fair, Mulvey for Loretta straight up is probably a bit much. But as part of an Oswalt deal, that might be the sweetener the Astros need to pull the trigger.
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Did you see Ben Johnson play defense? He can cover ground he just cant judge a fly ball or pop up. Its like the anti Alou/Green.

Im aware any prospect for vet trade can be viewed like that however there are deep similarities between mulvey and maine starting with repitoires, continuing at the speed at which they throw, and ending with personalities where both have gone through droughts where they have lacked confidence. THIS YEAR, Mulvey has been our best pitching prospect above A ball and he stands a real legit chance of challenging and maybe beating Pelfrey for a spot next year in the rotation. Ask yourself if you want to mortgage your future, a likely good 2/great 3 for a few years of Oswalt who is closing on 30 (not old) but with a pedro like build may not get more then 4-5 more years of ace-like productivity. If it was just mulvey yes, but if it mulvey and milledge and all the other guys you mentioned? No thanks.

Lastly, Gomez can still be traded even if he is hurt. Theres nothing that I found that says he cant be.
 
Boik14 said:
Did you see Ben Johnson play defense? He can cover ground he just cant judge a fly ball or pop up. Its like the anti Alou/Green.

Im aware any prospect for vet trade can be viewed like that however there are deep similarities between mulvey and maine starting with repitoires, continuing at the speed at which they throw, and ending with personalities where both have gone through droughts where they have lacked confidence. THIS YEAR, Mulvey has been our best pitching prospect above A ball and he stands a real legit chance of challenging and maybe beating Pelfrey for a spot next year in the rotation. Ask yourself if you want to mortgage your future, a likely good 2/great 3 for a few years of Oswalt who is closing on 30 (not old) but with a pedro like build may not get more then 4-5 more years of ace-like productivity. If it was just mulvey yes, but if it mulvey and milledge and all the other guys you mentioned? No thanks.

Lastly, Gomez can still be traded even if he is hurt. Theres nothing that I found that says he cant be.
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Yes, in a heartbeat IF age and build was the concern. Ace is an Ace, and there just isn't enough of them. He's a sure fire Ace, and top pitching prospects come and go worse than NBA lottery picks.

BUT, my hesitation would be that I've heard (on tv, not print) that Oswalt has talked very seriously about retiring early. That's the only thing that would give me pause. I'm not much into the "build" thing. I don't like to speculate on someone's future injuries before there's a current history of it.
 
finswin56 said:
Yes, in a heartbeat IF age and build was the concern. Ace is an Ace, and there just isn't enough of them. He's a sure fire Ace, and top pitching prospects come and go worse than NBA lottery picks.

BUT, my hesitation would be that I've heard (on tv, not print) that Oswalt has talked very seriously about retiring early. That's the only thing that would give me pause. I'm not much into the "build" thing. I don't like to speculate on someone's future injuries before there's a current history of it.
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Fair enough but that logic only applies if you believe:
A) that you need a true ace to win WS
B) That a true ace isnt on the roster (and imo we have 1 possibly 2 with Pedro + maine or Ollie's development still pending)
C) That great hitting can compensate enough for not having an ace.

As you can see by my logic, Id rather hang on to multiple prospects and let the ace develop. IF the right deal came around for Oswalt (Pelfrey, Burgos, and a B level guy) Id consider it.

But mostly, Im going with the way our farm has produced recently we should hang on to as many of our young guys as we can. Yusmerio Petit is now pitching like a beast as well for Arizona. And thats just another guy we wont have.
 
Boik14 said:
Fair enough but that logic only applies if you believe:
A) that you need a true ace to win WS
B) That a true ace isnt on the roster (and imo we have 1 possibly 2 with Pedro + maine or Ollie's development still pending)
C) That great hitting can compensate enough for not having an ace.

As you can see by my logic, Id rather hang on to multiple prospects and let the ace develop. IF the right deal came around for Oswalt (Pelfrey, Burgos, and a B level guy) Id consider it.

But mostly, Im going with the way our farm has produced recently we should hang on to as many of our young guys as we can. Yusmerio Petit is now pitching like a beast as well for Arizona. And thats just another guy we wont have.
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I don't think that I have to abide by those three options exclusively. It's more simple to me. I feel you can never have enough true Aces, and Oswalt is a TRUE Ace. The only other contender there is Pedro, but we both know that isn't even the case anymore since he can no longer be counted on to stay healthy. Also, I'll always take the known commodity when it's that top notch. I love what's happening with our farm system, but prospects are still prospects for a reason.
 
Ok then what about:

D) we need a hitter far more! Now if there is no hitters worth a damn available if the price is right id consider.

No player is worth so many prospects. Forgetting the fact we dont necessarily NEED the cheap labor cause we're not small market, quality organizational depth that allows top prospects to develop is paramount in the organizational building process.
 
Boik14 said:
Ok then what about:

D) we need a hitter far more! Now if there is no hitters worth a damn available if the price is right id consider.

No player is worth so many prospects. Forgetting the fact we dont necessarily NEED the cheap labor cause we're not small market, quality organizational depth that allows top prospects to develop is paramount in the organizational building process.
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Now I am on board with you there.
I didn't mean to mislead the conversation, I wasn't speaking about the proposed trade (in what we would give up), as much as I was stating just how much I want a pitcher like Oswalt.
 
WFAN's Ed Coleman reporting Alou is not in the lineup tonight due to shoulder tendonitis. Day to day. I have to say, Jermaine Dye is looking better and better now that hes starting to hit.

If our deadline consisted of getting Dye, Loretta and a RP for nothing substantial (i.e. a couple B level prospects) we'd be pretty set:

Reyes/ss
Lo Duca/C
Beltran/CF
Wright/3B
Delgado/1B
Dye/RF
Alou/LF
Loretta/2B
P

Bench: green, Gotay, M. Anderson, Castro, Milledge, Easley...when Chavez comes back Milledge goes back down where he can play everyday.
 
Boik14 said:
WFAN's Ed Coleman reporting Alou is not in the lineup tonight due to shoulder tendonitis. Day to day. I have to say, Jermaine Dye is looking better and better now that hes starting to hit.

If our deadline consisted of getting Dye, Loretta and a RP for nothing substantial (i.e. a couple B level prospects) we'd be pretty set:

Reyes/ss
Lo Duca/C
Beltran/CF
Wright/3B
Delgado/1B
Dye/RF
Alou/LF
Loretta/2B
P

Bench: green, Gotay, M. Anderson, Castro, Milledge, Easley...when Chavez comes back Milledge goes back down where he can play everyday.
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How the hell do you get shoulder tendonitis when you've been on the DL since May!?!
 
finswin56 said:
How the hell do you get shoulder tendonitis when you've been on the DL since May!?!
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Too much ****in off. Thats the only logical explanation anyway. :lol:


I love how John Maine's 4th hit of the year is a 2 run homer that he took about 20 minutes to round the bases for! :kick:
 
Boik14 said:
Too much ****in off. Thats the only logical explanation anyway. :lol:


I love how John Maine's 4th hit of the year is a 2 run homer that he took about 20 minutes to round the bases for! :kick:
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Great, now I have to think about that and the idea that he pisses on his hands :lol:

LMAO at Maine slow jogging. Wish I would have seen it. Of course the only game I've been able to catch in weeks is the beating we took by the Dodgers this weekend.
 
I'm liking Gotay at 2nd base, I think we just need an outfield bat, and Lastings, while his average was not great before tonight, has had some big hits.

And Omar loves Gomez and won't trade him
 
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