The Official 2006 New York Yankees Thread!

[MikeO]

Roger isn't a great postseason pitcher? I don't get you people.....I really don't.

In the world series he has a 3-0 record with a 2.37 ERA. Not to mention in 49 world series innings pitched he has 49 strikeouts!

CAREER in the postseason (all rounds) he is 12-8 with a 3.71 ERA.

As well has a complete game/shutout on his postseason resume.

I will take that kind of "not a good postseason pitcher" on my team anyday.

 

[nyjunc]

Roger isn't a great postseason pitcher? I don't get you people.....I really don't.

In the world series he has a 3-0 record with a 2.37 ERA. Not to mention in 49 world series innings pitched he has 49 strikeouts!

CAREER in the postseason (all rounds) he is 12-8 with a 3.71 ERA.

As well has a complete game/shutout on his postseason resume.

I will take that kind of "not a good postseason pitcher" on my team anyday.

Game 4 of the '99 WS doesn't count for me as the Yanks were up 3-0. earlier in that postseason he was shelled by Bos then in '00 was shelled by Oak in the LDS before he was great against Sea and NYM. In '01 he was awful in the LDS again then was good in the LCS and WS, '02 he got shelled in the LDS, '03 had good LDS then struggled LCS(very good in brawl game but poor in Game 7) and WS. In '04 and '05 he was not good for Houston. W/ Boston he was never great in the postseason as well.

 

[MikeO]

Game 4 of the '99 WS doesn't count for me as the Yanks were up 3-0. earlier in that postseason he was shelled by Bos then in '00 was shelled by Oak in the LDS before he was great against Sea and NYM. In '01 he was awful in the LDS again then was good in the LCS and WS, '02 he got shelled in the LDS, '03 had good LDS then struggled LCS(very good in brawl game but poor in Game 7) and WS. In '04 and '05 he was not good for Houston. W/ Boston he was never great in the postseason as well.

Well if your gonna cherry pick what games you don't want to count, sure you can make his numbers look like garabge.

That's like saying take away Dimaggio's last 43 hits of his hit streak, and it wasn't all that impressive! :shakeno:

Jesus Christ, I mean come on!

3-0 in the world series, one K per inning pitched. An ERA of 2.37! No way to spin that as bad. And the WORLD SERIES is the postseason last I checked. A 12-8 postseason record overall with an ERA under 4 (3.71) is also very impressive.

Spin away all you want, but the numbers don't lie!

 

[Ray Finkle]

Roger isn't a great postseason pitcher? I don't get you people.....I really don't.

In the world series he has a 3-0 record with a 2.37 ERA. Not to mention in 49 world series innings pitched he has 49 strikeouts!

CAREER in the postseason (all rounds) he is 12-8 with a 3.71 ERA.

As well has a complete game/shutout on his postseason resume.

I will take that kind of "not a good postseason pitcher" on my team anyday.

Clemens didn't get charged for the loss in Game 1 of the 2006 WS?

Anyway my beef with Clemens is that in his days with Boston he wimped out in the 1986 WS with "blister" on his finger which was never seen by anyone including team doctors. Also in the 1990 playoffs he got thrown out of a playoff game (!!!!) for arguing balls and strikes, he just doesn't handle pressure very well.

Clemens has had a lot of bad games in the playoffs: 1999 Game 3 in the ALCS vs. Boston and 2003 Game 7 vs. Boston come to mind with him just pitching for the Yankees. He wasn't very good in Boston.

In those wins in the playoffs can you look up how his team was doing (example when he won Game 4 of the 1999 WS his team was up 3 games to 0). Just curious to see if he pitched well when the game was on the line, like his team facing elimination.

 

[nyjunc]

Well if your gonna cherry pick what games you don't want to count, sure you can make his numbers look like garabge.

That's like saying take away Dimaggio's last 43 hits of his hit streak, and it wasn't all that impressive! :shakeno:

Jesus Christ, I mean come on!

He came into a situation in '99 w/ the Yanks coming off one of the best seasons ever. he was not good for us until the postseason of 2000. No it's not a big deal to me that he pitched well against a dead Atl team in game 4 of the WS. Roger came into a dynasty and he was good, not great(except for a few games) for su then he has been mediocre to bad for Hou outside of the 1 relief stint last year.

 

[MikeO]

Clemens didn't get charged for the loss in Game 1 of the 2006 WS?

Anyway my beef with Clemens is that in his days with Boston he wimped out in the 1986 WS with "blister" on his finger which was never seen by anyone including team doctors. Also in the 1990 playoffs he got thrown out of a playoff game (!!!!) for arguing balls and strikes, he just doesn't handle pressure very well.

Clemens has had a lot of bad games in the playoffs: 1999 Game 3 in the ALCS vs. Boston and 2003 Game 7 vs. Boston come to mind with him just pitching for the Yankees. He wasn't very good in Boston.

In those wins in the playoffs can you look up how his team was doing (example when he won Game 4 of the 1999 WS his team was up 3 games to 0). Just curious to see if he pitched well when the game was on the line, like his team facing elimination.

This isn't directed to Ray in paticular. In general.........Some of you people are nuts! You can take any great player (maybe the greatest MLB pitcher ever) and tear them down over nothing. It's insane arguements like which is why I refuse to post about any Red Sox-Yanks BS this year.

In the last year on this board I have heard......

1)Clement is better than Randy Johnson
2) I wouldn't want A-Rod on my team if I could get him for free.
3) Peyton Manning is overrated and I wouldn't want him on the Dolphins
4) The Red Sox were a "lock" to win the AL East last year because they played a bunch of home games in Aug and Sep at home agaisnt bad teams where the Yanks had a tough schedule in comparison! (it doesn't matter that the Sox had no starting pitching those months)
5) That Clemens who is 3-0 witha 2.71 ERA in the WS and a 12-8, 3.71 ERA in the postseason in general isn't a "good postseason pitcher". I guess those numbers are just made up and not real.

I could go on forever. And alot of you people mock me for my opinions! LOL :sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol: Read what I Wrote above, go run a search.....and look at the idiot debates I have had to engage in and wonder why I don't post on any Red Sox-Yanks stuff this year! I don't have the time nor the energy to argue such NO BRAIN, COMMEN SENSE topics with people who just don't get it (aka SPORTS)

(this post isn't directed at any one person in paticular so nobody get upset)

 

[phunwin]

Roger isn't a great postseason pitcher? I don't get you people.....I really don't.

In the world series he has a 3-0 record with a 2.37 ERA. Not to mention in 49 world series innings pitched he has 49 strikeouts!

CAREER in the postseason (all rounds) he is 12-8 with a 3.71 ERA.

As well has a complete game/shutout on his postseason resume.

I will take that kind of "not a good postseason pitcher" on my team anyday.

Clemens is a good postseason pitcher, not a great one. His postseason ERA is 0.59 higher than his career ERA (3.12). I'd still take him, of course, but when you're not just worse in the postseason, but markedly worse, that's not a good thing. One would expect any pitchers' ERA to increase in the postseason, since the opposing lineups tend to be better, but a 19% increase is significant.

 

[MikeO]

He came into a situation in '99 w/ the Yanks coming off one of the best seasons ever. he was not good for us until the postseason of 2000. No it's not a big deal to me that he pitched well against a dead Atl team in game 4 of the WS. Roger came into a dynasty and he was good, not great(except for a few games) for su then he has been mediocre to bad for Hou outside of the 1 relief stint last year.

So his 1986 WS stats don't count? 11 K's in 11 innings. Only 4 runs allowed in 11 innings. In 2 games a 3.18 ERA in the 1986 WS.

That don't count.......because it would ruin your arguement.

How about the 2003 WS stats. 3 hits in 7 innings. 5 K's in 7 innings. NO WALKS!

2000 WS, 8 innings, 0 RUNS ALLOWED. 0 Walks! 2 hits allowed!

2001 WS....19 K's in 13 innings pitched! That *******!

Those numbers don't count either. Let's just pin-point his 1999 WS and make a "generalization" based on that. A stance that holds no merit! :shakeno:

 

[nyjunc]

Clemens was ok in Boston, good in NY(walking into a dynasty team) and bad in Houston in thre postseason. Players like him more is expected of them, he is not a great postseason pitcher but rather a good one and Peyton manning so far is nothing more than a choker(just a better daunte culpepper) and ARod as a Yank has been a bust in big games.

 

[nyjunc]

In the 2003 WS he gave up 3 ER in the 1st putting the Yanks in a huge hole. His WS #s w/ the Yanks were excellent but his LDS and LCS #s were far from great.

 

[MikeO]

Clemens was ok in Boston, good in NY(walking into a dynasty team) and bad in Houston in thre postseason. Players like him more is expected of them, he is not a great postseason pitcher but rather a good one and Peyton manning so far is nothing more than a choker(just a better daunte culpepper) and ARod as a Yank has been a bust in big games.

I don't care if he had the BAD NEWS BEARS behind him in NY for those world series games. He's the pitcher......if he isn't giving up actual hits!!! That is good! The numbers don't lie. Twist them all you want and live in your fantasy world if it helps you sleep at night.

And if Peyton Manning is a choker, so is Marino!!!!!!!!!!! And if yo udon't want Arod on your team, your nuts. It's like an NBA team saying they wouldn't want Dwayne Wade or Lebron, just because! If you truly believe that, your nuts!

I'm a Yankee fan I don't root for the Red Sox, if the Yanks had a chance to get Ortiz and Beckett tomorrow, guess what i take them and I am rooting for them. I'm not stupid enough to put some personal grudge agaisnt a player over getting the team I root for better!!!!

 

[MikeO]

In the 2003 WS he gave up 3 ER in the 1st putting the Yanks in a huge hole. His WS #s w/ the Yanks were excellent but his LDS and LCS #s were far from great.

Dizzy yet from all of that spinning?

 

[phunwin]

Just for comparison's sake, here are the splits between regular season ERA and postseason ERA from some of Clemens' contemporaries (i.e. guys who have been around long enough to accumulate a decent sample size of postseason appearances, and who were considered top-notch starters)...

(Format: Regular season/postseason)
Randy Johnson - 3.11/3.28
Curt Schilling - 3.40/2.06 (holy ****!)
David Wells - 4.06/3.15
Mike Mussina - 3.64/3.30
Greg Maddux - 3.01/3.22
Tom Glavine - 3.44/3.58
Orel Hershiser - 3.48/2.59
John Smoltz - 3.26/2.66
Pedro Martinez - 2.72/3.40

And just for comparison's sake:
Mariano Rivera - 2.33/0.81 (certainly reinforces the thinking that he's a great postseason pitcher)

That's a pretty small and unscientific sample. But it certainly bears mention that of that group, only Clemens and Martinez had a postseason ERA that's significantly worse than their regular season ERA.

 

[MikeO]

And just for comparison's sake:
Mariano Rivera - 2.33/0.81 (certainly reinforces the thinking that he's a great postseason pitcher)

That's a pretty small and unscientific sample. But it certainly bears mention that of that group, only Clemens and Martinez had a postseason ERA that's significantly worse than their regular season ERA.

RIVERA pitches one inning! :shakeno: He may only face the 7,8,9 hitters. Or the 6,7,8 hitters. While Im not knocking him in any way, to even bring him up in this debate is nonsense!

 

[nyjunc]

I don't care if he had the BAD NEWS BEARS behind him in NY for those world series games. He's the pitcher......if he isn't giving up actual hits!!! That is good! The numbers don't lie. Twist them all you want and live in your fantasy world if it helps you sleep at night.

It's alot easier to pitch w/ little to no pressure. he had alot against Boston in '99 and was thrashed.

And if Peyton Manning is a choker, so is Marino!!!!!!!!!!!

manning has had better talent around him, Marino never had the balance that manning has.

And if yo udon't want Arod on your team, your nuts.

I'd rather have an average player elevate his game in the postseason than a great regs eason player sink down to an average player. ARod has plenty of chances to change that perception but he has to start at some point.

I'm a Yankee fan I don't root for the Red Sox, if the Yanks had a chance to get Ortiz and Beckett tomorrow, guess what i take them and I am rooting for them. I'm not stupid enough to put some personal grudge agaisnt a player over getting the team I root for better!!!!

I don't have a grudge against Clemens. I like Clemens and have rooted for him to do well in Houston and I would like him back but he is far from a sure thing come october.

Dizzy yet from all of that spinning?

So it doesn't count that he put his team in a huge hole?