The Official Game Thread: United States vs Mexico | Page 9 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

The Official Game Thread: United States vs Mexico

Quelonio said:
While I am not happy with how the mexican team played, I certainly can't say that you should be happy with how the US team played either...

Both teams look light years away from their best level. US was not even a shell of that 2002 team, and Mexico... I mean they did not play a great game but it is like they just underestimate US every single time, it is the biggest rivalry in the region and those idiots play it like it is any other game... I thought that was supposed to end with damn Hugo as the coach.

(and to the ones that say that Hugo will be fired soon, there is no way he will even though I would love for him to be fired, he would have to have a meltdown of Enrique Meza level before anyone could start to even mention firing him)
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US didn't have all of its stars and had a pretty young team out there. It was expected for them not to play as well as one could imagine.
 
Prime Time said:
US didn't have all of its stars and had a pretty young team out there. It was expected for them not to play as well as one could imagine.
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Regardless of that it still was not a well played game... you know it and I know it. MExico needs a lot of work, but US needs even more, and hell do they need a new coach, Bradley seemed like a step back

(we need a new coach, but that ain't happening)
 
Quelonio said:
Regardless of that it still was not a well played game... you know it and I know it. MExico needs a lot of work, but US needs even more, and hell do they need a new coach, Bradley seemed like a step back

(we need a new coach, but that ain't happening)
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Quelonio, it's not just that the US didn't have many of its big names. MLS isn't even in season, meaning most of our players were out of shape, unlike your guys. Also, we started some young guys that had almost no caps (like that Bornstein guy - glad I got to see him.. some good young blood).

And we not only have a new coach, he's just an interim coach, meaning the program is a bit in disarray.

So, given all that, the US did OK. Yes, we need work, but more work than Mexico? Definitely not (though our team will change a lot more than yours over the next 4 years due to change in styles and more young guys becoming regulars than during the last cycle).
 
ckb2001 said:
Quelonio, it's not just that the US didn't have many of its big names. MLS isn't even in season, meaning most of our players were out of shape, unlike your guys. Also, we started some young guys that had almost no caps (like that Bornstein guy - glad I got to see him.. some good young blood).

And we not only have a new coach, he's just an interim coach, meaning the program is a bit in disarray.

So, given all that, the US did OK. Yes, we need work, but more work than Mexico? Definitely not (though our team will change a lot more than yours over the next 4 years due to change in styles and more young guys becoming regulars than during the last cycle).
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Oh no, it is a given that we need something, I mean the European players, which should have dominated sleepwalked through the game, it is clear that we lack a true striker, and while Blanco played a good game, the people around him did not really rally around enough to actually allow him to connect. (Clearly Guardado should have started the game, and... it pains me to say this, but Ochoa should have started over Sanchez... since he is going through a better moment).

I mean I am excited about this era basically because I still have to see Vela and Giovanni come in both of them would actually fill in the holes that we have right now (striker and a good connection between midfield and the striker).

Now granted I don't know this US team enough. But besides the defensive strength and Howard being a secure goalkeeper... what did you see in your team that made you feel comfortable about the near future? At times your team was erased by a clearly underachieving mexican team. Granted in the end this clearly underachieving mexican team made too many mental mistakes which allowed you to run away with the victory. But this was hardly a promising showing by either of the two teams. PErsonally I would not feel comfortable with a team that lacks midfield... the US has absolutely no midfield, none at all, they don't recover balls, they don't feed the strikers... just no midfield. Will it improve with Beasley in there, I sure hope so, but it looks like it is a deeper problem than just one star player. Donovan is alright (in his own underachieving way, I mean he should be much better and much more of a problem than what he is) and this kid that you find interesting, I personally found that he was simply erased... vanished. By a defensive group that played awful (Marquez and Salcido where dissappointing and God knows why Hugo insists on playing Osorio out of position, he should switch salcido and Osorio).

To be honest we lost. But I would have a hard time saying that we played worse than you did, What I saw was two really mediocre teams. And I personally see your midfield as a bigger trouble than any of ours.
 
Quelonio said:
Oh no, it is a given that we need something, I mean the European players, which should have dominated sleepwalked through the game, it is clear that we lack a true striker, and while Blanco played a good game, the people around him did not really rally around enough to actually allow him to connect. (Clearly Guardado should have started the game, and... it pains me to say this, but Ochoa should have started over Sanchez... since he is going through a better moment).

I mean I am excited about this era basically because I still have to see Vela and Giovanni come in both of them would actually fill in the holes that we have right now (striker and a good connection between midfield and the striker).

Now granted I don't know this US team enough. But besides the defensive strength and Howard being a secure goalkeeper... what did you see in your team that made you feel comfortable about the near future? At times your team was erased by a clearly underachieving mexican team. Granted in the end this clearly underachieving mexican team made too many mental mistakes which allowed you to run away with the victory. But this was hardly a promising showing by either of the two teams. PErsonally I would not feel comfortable with a team that lacks midfield... the US has absolutely no midfield, none at all, they don't recover balls, they don't feed the strikers... just no midfield. Will it improve with Beasley in there, I sure hope so, but it looks like it is a deeper problem than just one star player. Donovan is alright (in his own underachieving way, I mean he should be much better and much more of a problem than what he is) and this kid that you find interesting, I personally found that he was simply erased... vanished. By a defensive group that played awful (Marquez and Salcido where dissappointing and God knows why Hugo insists on playing Osorio out of position, he should switch salcido and Osorio).

To be honest we lost. But I would have a hard time saying that we played worse than you did, What I saw was two really mediocre teams. And I personally see your midfield as a bigger trouble than any of ours.
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Mexico probably played better, yes (though the win is more important).

As for what made me feel good, how can you feel good about anything the US or Mexico is showing out there after we were put in our places after the WC!!

Both the US and Mexico really proved we are at best a 2nd round team (if you get into a good group) and getting there isn't even assured. So, there's not much to be happy about.

What's needed is simply a higher level of talent. I think Howard will do fine at goalkeeper. For a central defender, Onyewu should do fine, and I really have high hopes for Spector. Within the next 3-4 years, we'll probably finally see Adu make a mark. But, seriously, the problem with the US is we have mostly moderately good players (with depth in midfield and understaffed at forward) and almost none that could get on a higher-level team. Maybe those four are it as far as potential is concerned.

So, no there isn't much to be proud of. Seriously, winning a US-Mexico match doesn't say much at all anymore (it says far less for Mexico though, since you guys keep losing).
 
Quelonio said:
Regardless of that it still was not a well played game... you know it and I know it. MExico needs a lot of work, but US needs even more, and hell do they need a new coach, Bradley seemed like a step back

(we need a new coach, but that ain't happening)
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Oh without question US needs work. But they were missing DaMarcus Beasley, Oguchi Onyewu, Steve Cherundolo, Corey Gibbs and even Kasey Keller.

I agree about the US needing a new coach though....but again he is just an interim coach.

Like Ckb said..a lot of the guys out there had little or no caps and to win in that atmosphere was an amazing task. Bornstein (although he struggled in the 1st Half) showed off his skill and speed (damnnn he is fast) and that he could potentially be our future LB.
 
ckb2001 said:
Mexico probably played better, yes (though the win is more important).

As for what made me feel good, how can you feel good about anything the US or Mexico is showing out there after we were put in our places after the WC!!

Both the US and Mexico really proved we are at best a 2nd round team (if you get into a good group) and getting there isn't even assured. So, there's not much to be happy about.

What's needed is simply a higher level of talent. I think Howard will do fine at goalkeeper. For a central defender, Onyewu should do fine, and I really have high hopes for Spector. Within the next 3-4 years, we'll probably finally see Adu make a mark. But, seriously, the problem with the US is we have mostly moderately good players (with depth in midfield and understaffed at forward) and almost none that could get on a higher-level team. Maybe those four are it as far as potential is concerned.

So, no there isn't much to be proud of. Seriously, winning a US-Mexico match doesn't say much at all anymore (it says far less for Mexico though, since you guys keep losing).
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We need more talent up front. Johnson looked like the solution to our problem when he first player for us but then he started to fall off. Hopefully he can regain his old form. Donovan, Beasley, Convey, Dempsey and Mastroeni seems like a dangerous Midfield to me. We just have to find a way to get them all out there and stop playing Donovan as a Forward.
 
Prime Time said:
We need more talent up front. Johnson looked like the solution to our problem when he first player for us but then he started to fall off. Hopefully he can regain his old form. Donovan, Beasley, Convey, Dempsey and Mastroeni seems like a dangerous Midfield to me. We just have to find a way to get them all out there and stop playing Donovan as a Forward.
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Those five plus a few more (including Johnson) are dangerous to 3rd tier and some 2nd tier teams. But, they just don't have the talent to seriously compete in the WC. Problem is, there aren't too many in the youth systems that even might have that talent I can think of.

However, if we're content with the level of a Donovan or Beasley, then I think we'll have many more such guys come 2010. Depth in midfield was achieved from 2002-2006, and depth at the few remaining weak positions (left back especially, target forward and in general at forward position, and maybe right back) can be achieved by 2010.

The problem is quality, not quantity now (one has to admit though, we DID have a quantity problem before Arena and now very little of one. Whatever Arena can be blamed for, his way of constantly changing the lineup but keeping the same system did give us depth we didn't have before).
 
ckb2001 said:
Those five plus a few more (including Johnson) are dangerous to 3rd tier and some 2nd tier teams. But, they just don't have the talent to seriously compete in the WC. Problem is, there aren't too many in the youth systems that even might have that talent I can think of.

However, if we're content with the level of a Donovan or Beasley, then I think we'll have many more such guys come 2010. Depth in midfield was achieved from 2002-2006, and depth at the few remaining weak positions (left back especially, target forward and in general at forward position, and maybe right back) can be achieved by 2010.

The problem is quality, not quantity now (one has to admit though, we DID have a quantity problem before Arena and now very little of one. Whatever Arena can be blamed for, his way of constantly changing the lineup but keeping the same system did give us depth we didn't have before).
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Well If you are expecting us to get a Zidane, Ronaldo, Cannavaro etc. then don't expect us to be getting one any time soon. I do believe that sooner or later we will eventually get a couple of those star caliber players but not yet. However, in 2002 we didn't have amazing stars but we where a goal away from playing in The Final Four against a Korean team which we tied earlier in the tourney and had we beaten them we would have been in the finals. We have the talent to go far..we just have to have the lucky bounces as well.
 
ChrisKo said:
Yes, they could, but if you want the ref on your side, I'd recommend not doing that. I ref'd for about 12 years and the official is considered part of the field and balls off the ref are live and there are plenty of players that use the ref as a screen too.
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The ref could have avoided the ball, he was just too damn slow...
 
TotoreMexico said:
Talk about luck:rolleyes:
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Is luck a bad thing? :tongue: (besides we would have almost certainly won anyway without that - in fact don't you realize that last goal was done FOR Mexican fans? This way you can blame the ref!! :wink:)
 
Prime Time said:
Well If you are expecting us to get a Zidane, Ronaldo, Cannavaro etc. then don't expect us to be getting one any time soon. I do believe that sooner or later we will eventually get a couple of those star caliber players but not yet. However, in 2002 we didn't have amazing stars but we where a goal away from playing in The Final Four against a Korean team which we tied earlier in the tourney and had we beaten them we would have been in the finals. We have the talent to go far..we just have to have the lucky bounces as well.
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One good thing in 2010 is it's NOT in Europe! I don't know what the psychological factor is, but we simply don't play well there. And the probability we end up in another group of death (or near-death) is obviously low.

So, all in all, we should have a better Cup (but it still looks like a 2nd round at best team realistically speaking until we have the talent, though of course that doesn't mean we don't get lucky :wink: ).
 
ckb2001 said:
One good thing in 2010 is it's NOT in Europe! I don't know what the psychological factor is, but we simply don't play well there. And the probability we end up in another group of death (or near-death) is obviously low.

So, all in all, we should have a better Cup (but it still looks like a 2nd round at best team realistically speaking until we have the talent, though of course that doesn't mean we don't get lucky :wink: ).
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2012 and it still might get done in Europe, dunno how the south africans are doing in the getting ready but I remember reading that if they are not ready they could move the cup somewhere else, obviously a European country would get a faster look at since they are better prepared stadium wise than any other country out there.
 
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