This is what Ireland did the last time he had the 12th pick | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

This is what Ireland did the last time he had the 12th pick

Gonk said:
Trading down would be idiotic in this draft. We need a big time playmaker/star on this team, which we can get with the 12th pick.
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Please keep us all in touch on who that supposed playmaker is. Inquiry minds want to know.
 
srdnaty said:
Also I think drafting a RB with the 12 pick is foolish. Its a passing league and Rb's are a dime a dozen and usually only last 5 years. I agree with the Parcels/Ireland philosophy, no RB at 12. For every top 5 RB selected anyone could name 5 later round picks that are very productive.
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So you would not have taken an Adrian Peterson with the 12th pick?

RBs like Daniel Thomas and Lamar Miller ARE a dime a dozen. RBs like Peterson are a PRICELESS commodity no matter how long you have them.

Unfortunately this draft shapes up as exceedingly lackluster at almost ALL skill positions. When the Heisman winner is a FR it means the upperclassmen just ain't got it.

If you want a concise summary of ireland' draft history, here it is: he consistently tries to draft linemen and def. front 7 players one round HIGHER than their value should call for... and consistently tries to draft skill position players one round LOWER than they should go for. With the predictable result that the skill position players always wind up on other teams' rosters and we have MEDIOCRITIES in the trenches. He is like the alternative universe of the rest of the NFL... doing the opposite of what the the GOOD gm's do.
 
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I just love at the Misi talk and no one gives Ireland credit for taking him over another LB everyone kicked and screamed for. What's his name? Oh yeah, Sergio Kindle. Who would of tho
 
phinatic1399 said:
### The Dolphins learned Sunday night they will pick 12th in April's draft. San Diego, Miami, Tampa, Carolina and New Orleans all finished 7-9. The draft order among those five teams was determined on strength of schedule. The Chargers pick 11th, followed by Miami, Tampa, Carolina and the Saints.
The last time Miami picked 12th (in 2010), the Dolphins traded the pick to San Diego for the 28th pick (Jared Odrick) and the 40th choice (Koa Misi). Miami passed on Dez Bryant and Jason Pierre Paul, among others, at 12, that year. The last two players selected 12th were defensive lineman Fletcher Cox by the Eagles (2011) and quarterback Christian Ponder by the Vikings (2010).




Instead of staying put and taking Pierre Paul he traded down and took Odrick. Instead of taking Gronk he took Misi. He passed on Bryant. He has no clue to evaluate impact talent. Good luck this offseason. Were all gonna sit back and hope he takes a big time WR, pass rusher, or CB witht the 12th pick but I can see it now. Ireland will either stay put and take and OL or trade back to accumilate more picks and draft more scrubs.

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These type of arguments are so silly. San Diego traded up to 12. Why arent you knocking them for passing on JPP. You act like the dolphins were the only team who screwed up by not taking JPP. Im sure almost every team that didnt select him before he eventually came off the board wishes they wouldve drafted JPP. Id have to go back and look at the players taken, but obviously he has to be one of the best players taken in that entire draft.

With these ridiculous arguments youre basically suggesting that if a GM dosent hit the exact best player available when its their turn to draft that they suck. Do you even realize how difficult it is to take the guy who winds up being the best player with each pick. It would never happen. A team is lucky to do that twice in a draft. Most of the time a team is lucky to do it once, even with their 1st round pick. Once you get outside of the top few picks in the first round, you cant expect to hit the best player. When Tom Brady was drafted, the best player in the entire draft wasnt selected until the 6th round. Therefore only New England selected the best player when it was their turn that year and it took them till round 6 to do it.

Anybody who didnt take Gronkowski in the 2nd round that year goofed. Id have to look to double check, but Id bet Gronk was the best player taken in round 2. Its hard to match the best TE in the league. I guess that makes every GM in the game a total moron. Get real with this ****.

And Dez Bryant............. you guys love some crack babies. Im still happy we didnt draft him.

Also in 2010, Bill Parcells was calling the shots, not Ireland.

If a guy drafts good players more often than bad ones then he has done a nice job. I cant kill someone for missing out on a specific player beyond a certain point unless he made a completely ridiculous selection. Now having the 1st overall selection you better take a real good player. If you dont get the best guy in the whole thing you should at least come close. And if your team needs a QB and you pass on one that turns out to be a great player while taking a POS LT, then its a huge problem.

Finally, when your QB is Tom Brady and you select an offensive player, that players chances of success are drastically increased by the fact his QB is Tom Brady.
 
Should have had Earl Thomas but that's not the point; if Ireland can't spot a game changing talent we are doomed. Remember that SD made that trade to take ryan Matthews, who as a fantasy owner, I can assure you is a bust: it goes both ways. I thought the trade was decent value and suited our rebuilding goals at the time, but both those picks were duds. We need a team leader now, Milliner, Te'o, Werner, Matthews etc. Someone to make turnovers hopefully.
 
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phinatic1399 said:
two are extremely serviceable but that's all. I could care less if they contribute. So what john denny contributes. Odrick is a 3rd round talent that rarely flashes impact ability and misi is an extremely average LB. I would much rather have JPP or Gronk.
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You don't know what you're talking about. There are a lot of people on this site that feel if a player doesn't make an impact in season one or two he never will. Nothing could be farther from the truth! It took Jason Taylor 3 years before he started to become the player we all know. No one here seems to remember that. I'm not saying they will be better than JPP or Gronk. I am saying these two players have improved greatly and have the talent to be even better next year, and the year after that. The Dolphins have the 2nd youngest team in the NFL. I'm not happy about missing the playoffs, but I saw a team that has a lot of young talent that's getting better. BTW, Dez has a ton of talent, but he has not played to the level of being a first round pick. He's inconsistent and it's very possible his head will keep him from being the WR he should be. Ireland made the correct call on him.
 
phinatic1399 said:
two are extremely serviceable but that's all. I could care less if they contribute. So what john denny contributes. Odrick is a 3rd round talent that rarely flashes impact ability and misi is an extremely average LB. I would much rather have JPP or Gronk.
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You do understand Odrick's position, right? He doesn't play the same position as Pierre-Paul...you know that, right?

Odrick is defensive lineman in the Richard Seymour mold, defends the strong side and keeps the the running back from getting outside. For what his job is, he also has a decent amount of sacks and tackles for loss. Odrick is a solid player who gives us flexibility if Starks leaves, as he can play any position on the D line..

As for Koa Misi, i love the guy. But there is no defending passing up on Gronk, obviously..
 
hemidemon said:
You don't know what you're talking about. There are a lot of people on this site that feel if a player doesn't make an impact in season one or two he never will. Nothing could be farther from the truth! It took Jason Taylor 3 years before he started to become the player we all know. No one here seems to remember that. I'm not saying they will be better than JPP or Gronk. I am saying these two players have improved greatly and have the talent to be even better next year, and the year after that. The Dolphins have the 2nd youngest team in the NFL. I'm not happy about missing the playoffs, but I saw a team that has a lot of young talent that's getting better. BTW, Dez has a ton of talent, but he has not played to the level of being a first round pick. He's inconsistent and it's very possible his head will keep him from being the WR he should be. Ireland made the correct call on him.
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I agree, let's us analyze without taking any side on this. Ireland is not as bad or good as we think, but we cannot blame him on Gronk(he was injured and his status was uncertain) or Pierre-Paul(coming from a lowest competition he was a big question mark), add that SD fail to select Mathews here, he is an injury prone and low impact player. Too much hate on Ireland, let's do our own research and be fair on the evaluation, truth is that he has one more year to prove if he can work with Phibbin and his staff, from the personnel stand point both have made a good relationship and looks at least that have been very well communicated and headed in the same direction.
 
srdnaty said:
Also I think drafting a RB with the 12 pick is foolish. Its a passing league and Rb's are a dime a dozen and usually only last 5 years. I agree with the Parcels/Ireland philosophy, no RB at 12. For every top 5 RB selected anyone could name 5 later round picks that are very productive.
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Remember who San Diego traded the Odrick and Misi picks to take at #12? Ryan Mathews, a RB who breaks a collarbone when you breathe in his general direction.
 
In a nutshell, it seems that this poster and I share the exact same perception of the consistent draft day philosophies of our general manager...

And it really is depressing to somehow almost predict the draft fallout before Mel kuiper jr takes a stab at it

OT: but if my memory serves well, it wasn't too terribly long ago when Gozar Wannstedt passes on Randy Moss two or three times in the same draft to select John Avery.
 
finfan54 said:
two guys who contribute alot now. took a while...but, trade down get tyler eifert is in the cards. then extra pick for T. Cant lose. you can pass on a good player, but makes no diff if the player is not something we really need.

IMO, Kennan Allen is no better than Stedman Bailey and Bailey stock likely to rise after combine.
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coming from a WVU alum, this is absolutely not true.
 
dcnr226 said:
You do understand Odrick's position, right? He doesn't play the same position as Pierre-Paul...you know that, right?

Odrick is defensive lineman in the Richard Seymour mold, defends the strong side and keeps the the running back from getting outside. For what his job is, he also has a decent amount of sacks and tackles for loss. Odrick is a solid player who gives us flexibility if Starks leaves, as he can play any position on the D line..

As for Koa Misi, i love the guy. But there is no defending passing up on Gronk, obviously..
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I agree. Odrick was absolutely a first round talent. However, that was literally the only position besides maybe punter that we didn't need at the time.
 
l'm not worried at all. Philbin will have a lot of say on who he wants. Not just Ireland.

Should be interesting. At least it won't be as embarrassing and drafting Ted Ginn.
 
skaarsgard said:
In a nutshell, it seems that this poster and I share the exact same perception of the consistent draft day philosophies of our general manager...

And it really is depressing to somehow almost predict the draft fallout before Mel kuiper jr takes a stab at it

OT: but if my memory serves well, it wasn't too terribly long ago when Gozar Wannstedt passes on Randy Moss two or three times in the same draft to select John Avery.
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That was actually Jimmy Johnson, and he never passed on Moss. He traded down prior to the draft and was never in position to grab Moss when he fell during the draft.
 
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