time to look at our drafts under parcells

[BillsFanInPeace]

Hey Parcells did what he wanted...

Rebuilt your defense and left with the money before his real flaw (trying to fix an offense) was exposed.

 

[sm0kinfins]

Truthfully, NE's FA are better than the folks we drafted.
They are unfortunately smarter where it counts...MGT.
I would be willing to wager there are 10 teams that, if considered with an unbiased mind, have done far better than us.
Personally, the Long over Ryan is Parcell's legacy. If you have no breakaway Rb or franchise QB, what the heck difference does it make to have a stud O-Lineman?
It's been shown that an average line will block like madmen for a stud RB that rewards them for opening a whole, and a QB that gets rid of it successfully more often than not.

I ran a poll on a Herald forum asking who we should draft with our overall #1, and a HUGE majority (many of you folks, I'm sure..LOL) voted Long.
Not me.
Does anyone seriously think the "Hogs" of Redskins fame would be as celebrated if they weren't blocking for the likes of Riggins, Theisman, and such. I'll readily admit it's a 2 way street, and neither Riggins nor Joe would have been as good without that huge O-Line.
The Dolphins have been cursed for a decade, due to the lack of a 1st class GM.
Till we get that problem ameliorated, I'm afraid it will be more of the same.

Just my thoughts. BTW, I miss this place, and with the Herald forums now such a mess, I hope to contribute (and learn) a bit more around here.
Merry Christmas to all.

By your logic there are 21 teams then that have done worse than us... That would mean that FO did pretty well. I don't agree with that but again, using your logic here...

 

[Finfanforever]

Remember...the Dolphins passed on Dez Bryant for Odrick and Misi...a clear mistake IMO. You simply don't pass on play makers in the draft to fill needs.

 

[bdhock]

We rebuilt the defense in 3 years . . . Incredible job.

Where we failed was with the OLine picks. The failure on the OLine is even more disappointing than the job done to the defense. Not only dont we have reliable starters . . . we dont have reliable depth. We haven't addressed the RB position . . . we haven't addressed the TE position . . . we look for hailmary's at WR and they don't pan out. Where we truly blew it was in 2009 . . . we should have been able to fix the defense then, instead of drafting 2 projects in the 2nd and 3rd round. Then in 2010 . . . we could have gotten a WR and a RB.

Oh well, it is spilt milk and we gotta move on with a new OC and maybe a new coach.

Best summery of our failures I have ever read, You hit the nail on the head with every point.

 

[Zounds]

We currently have 11 starters from our last 3 drafts, and that includes UFA's. Getting 11 starters out of 3 drafts is pretty good imo, and I'm not even counting people who started previously, like Donald Thomas and Philip Merling. I like the way this regime drafts, drafting for character and leadership. Every team out there misses on draft picks, and I think if any of you did your research, you will find that they miss a lot more than our regime does.

 

[afishfan]

I'm sorry -- but why are we even evaluating players drafted in 6th and 7th rounds? Most don't pan out, regardless of the team. And please, don't reply back with the anomalies (Colston, etc) who DID pan out.

Here's my opinion:

They drafted arguably the best LT in the game.
They drafted arguably the most underrated corner in the game.
They drafted a cornerback who, if he could catch the ball, would have at least 5 interceptions so far this year.
I could keep going.

And for those who favor Clay Matthews over Vontae, please remember that the Dolphins had already signed Cameron Wake for as the rush linebacker. Cornerback was definitely a more needed position at the time.

Here are the only *stupid* picks they have made over the last 3 years:
Pat White
Patrick Turner
Shawn Murphy

Do I really need to spend my night proving to those who do not look beyond their team that EVERY team gets a bust or two in their drafts? Look at Jerry Hughes with the Colts this year. How about the myriad of 2nd round picks over the last couple of years who have been released or traded for nothing?

Sorry, but I can't help myself here:

LMAO....please DO keep going!

1.best left tackle in the game??? NUMBER 1 PICK DUDE at a positon is is AT LEAST out of the top 5 in terms of most important on the field

2.vastly UNDERRATED corner??? Davis? lmao...WHY? because Favre said so? he got PLENTY of attention for that by the way and FAILED to PRODUCE afterwards...HE IS NOT VASTLY UNDERRATED....hes simply not all that good YET

3. what was the third one? a guy THAT IF HE COULD CATCH?????? wtf??? thats like saying if Henne could THROW the ball hed be a great quarterback!!!!??!!

unreal

 

[Tunaphish429]

We currently have 11 starters from our last 3 drafts, and that includes UFA's. Getting 11 starters out of 3 drafts is pretty good imo, and I'm not even counting people who started previously, like Donald Thomas and Philip Merling. I like the way this regime drafts, drafting for character and leadership. Every team out there misses on draft picks, and I think if any of you did your research, you will find that they miss a lot more than our regime does.

This.

 

[afishfan]

Just for a point of reference, this is the last 3 years for the Jets. I'm not going to include players traded for using picks, etc etc. It's a simple (who did they draft) comparison:

2008 - Vernon Gholston (1st round) - BEST PLAYER EVER! (bust) (stats: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=11240)
2008 - Dustin Keller (trade-up) (1st round) - Jets gave up 2nd and 4th round for this pick. Has played pretty well. (stats: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=11264)
2008 - Dwight Lowery (4th round) - Still on the team, but about what you would expect from a 4th rounder. 5 career picks. Backup to Cromartie (stats: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=11347)
2008 - Erik Ainge (5th round) - Not even worth looking up.
2008 - Marcus Henry (5th round) - I don't even think he has recorded an NFL catch.
2008 - Nate Garner (7th round) - I think we know about him...

2009 - Mark Sanchez (trade-up) (1st round) - We know about Sanchez. Traded for 1st and 2nd and three players. I'd argue Sanchez hasn't lived up to his draft ranking so far. (stats: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=12482)
2009 - Shonn Greene (3rd round) - He plays, but hasn't lit it up at all.
2009 - Matt Slauson (6th round) - Starting guard.

2010 - Kyle Wilson (1st round) - Special Teams for the most part. 3rd string CB.
2010 - Vladimir Ducasse (2nd round) - Backup to Slauson
2010 - Joe McKnight (4th round) - 3rd string
2010 - John Conner (5th round) - Backup FB.

Now that we have some perspective, outside of the horrible Pat White choice (and maybe 2 others) ... have the Dolphins really done THAT bad?

did you just compare are drafts TO THE ****ING JETS?????? they suck ANYWAYS DUDE.....they ARENT EXACTLY THE MODEL....so this means NOTHING. in fact the drafts are comparable

 

[afishfan]

5 star players - Jake Long
4 star players - Vontae Davis, Dan Carpenter, Davone Bess and Kendall Langford
3 star players - Sean Smith, Chris Clemons, Koa Misi and Brian Hartline

Busts - Patrick Turner, Pat White, and Shawn Murphy

That is pretty solid in my book, I mean whatever about Bess and Carpenter not being drafted...at least they brought them here as UDFA. I wish we had hit on better in the second round, but we have drafted solid.

thats NOT solid dude...u dont build an NFL team with AVERAGE NFL TALENT which is AT BEST what u just posted. u win with PLAYMAKERS....is there even ONE in that list????? NOT A SINGLE ONE. case closed

 

[afishfan]

For all you clowns that state our drafts are soooooooo bad then let's compare to the great NE Patriots....

2008
1. J.Mayo lb -really good
1. forfeit for cheating
2. T.Wheatly CB -not on roster
3. S.Crable OLB -not on roster
3. K.OConnell QB -not on roster
4. J.White CB -nobody
5. M.Slater WR - back up
6. B.Ruud LB - not on roster

2009
2. P.Chung CB - real good
2. R.Brace NT - worse then Merling, can't get on game day roster
2. D.Butler CB - no better then a back up
2. S.Vollmer OT - good OT
3. B.Tate WR - Hartline wash
3. T.McKenzie OLB -not on roster
4. R.Ohumberger OG -ho hum
5. G.Bussy OG - not on roster
6. J.Ingram LS -not on roster
6. M.Pryor DT -no better then our late picks
7. J.Edelman WR - nice 4th receiver
7. D.Richard DT - ho hum

2010
1. D.McCourty CB - good but no V.Davis
2. R.Gronkowski TE - nice pick up
2. B.Spikes ILB - average player suspended for steriods
3. T.Price WR - wallace/moore
4. A.Herandez TE -could be good
5. Z.Mesko P - punter really????
6. T.Larsen C - not on roster
7. T.Welch OT - not on roster
7. B.Deadrick DT - who????
7. K.Weston DT - ho hum

So 2008 brought in 1 starter and 1 back up out of 7 picks and 4 draft picks not on the roster including a 2nd and 2 3rds!!! Wow what a great draft, lol!!!!! All players selected are skilled positions and they missed badly.

2009 brought 2 starters and 4 back ups out of 12 picks, only 2 picks are really any good in Chung and Vollmer the rest are no better then what we have drafted or picked up as a udfa. 7 picks went to the trenches with only 1 starting and the other 6 are on the team but not on the game roster!

2010 brought 3 starters and 1 back up out of 10 picks, this is their best draft in a long time with McCourty, Gronkowski, Hernandez. Spikes starts but as far as I'm concerned is garbage, he's now suspened for 4 games for illegal substance use. 4 more trench players and only two still on the team but not on the game day roster.

They drafted in 3 years 11 "corn fed" lineman and managed 1 starter and nobody else even can make the game day roster and 4 of them are no longer on the team!!!!!

So in 3 drafts they completely whiffed on two 2nd rounders that are not even on the team any more, four 3rd rounders with 3 of them not even on the team.

Compare that to us missing on P.White and you can argue P.Merling but atleast he is a regular rotaional player on a excellent D.Line. J.Odrick was playing really well until his injury. P.Turner was another miss and J.Jerry is fighting back and fourth in the starting lineup. But only 1 player is not on the roster from our top three rounds compared to 5 for NE. Even our late round picks have had a greater impact and hold a tonne more promise in Clemons, Jones, Hartline, Edds and Carol.

NE has plenty more draft picks but have missed way more then hit, they drafted way more "corn fed" lineman and missed plenty more. They also have drafted 5 CB's getting 2 starters and 1 backup compared to our 5 picks with 3 starters and 2 back ups!!!!!! V.Davis is by far superior to Chung or McCourtey.

So cry all you want but we have actually drafted a lot better then NE with less picks in the most important rounds of 1-3, NE 14 to our 11.

actually ur a little off.....in 08' they found Jerod Mayo who is everybit AS important to New England winning as Jake Long is to us. hes a probowl talent...AND THEY DIDNT PICK FIRST OVERALL.....AND THEY DIDNT NEED A FRANCHISE QB....guess what???? THEYVE ALREADY FOUND TWO!!!! and one of them IS A HALL OF FAMER.....in the time we COULDNT EVEN FIND ONE SERVICABLE GUY...wtf?????

did u just compare our drafts to New England?????

so their 2008 draft was ALREADY BETTER than ours by putting it into perspective (they didnt pick first.....and found practically as much anyways) and what the hell are u talking about in 09 and 10??? their top 5 picks in both drafts are ALL solid....they destroyed our drafts in those years...are u nuts?

ur thinking is biased.....look at how theyve performed on a BETTER team.....just cause a guy STARTS for us DOES NOT MEAN HE WAS A GOOD PICK especially when WE DONT WIN.

the patiots FOUND PLAYMAKERS... WE HAVENT

 

[afishfan]

We currently have 11 starters from our last 3 drafts, and that includes UFA's. Getting 11 starters out of 3 drafts is pretty good imo, and I'm not even counting people who started previously, like Donald Thomas and Philip Merling. I like the way this regime drafts, drafting for character and leadership. Every team out there misses on draft picks, and I think if any of you did your research, you will find that they miss a lot more than our regime does.

what a joke....SOMEBODY has to start dont they????? that is such lame *** reasoning! just because they find an AVERAGE NFL TALENT doesnt MEAN ****.......its like DVOA in baseball.....there are PLENTY of guys that can REPLACE ANY OF THESE guys.

we have found EXACTLY ZERO PLAYMAKERS in ALL of the PARCELLS DRAFTS....THAT INCLUDES OFFENSE AND DEFENSE .....ZERO....ZERO....understand???? ZERO

they ONLY guy they brought in that MAKES PLAYS is Cameron Wake.....and guess what?? THAT WAS NO ****ING SECRET do any ****ing intelligent person....go read some of the posts when we signed him!

and the sad thing is.....if you go read some of the things sparano has said about the guy ITS A ****ING JOKE..."well um...u know....we uh...didnt really know what we had u know" i TELL u what u had ******* u HAD a candidate for defensive player of the year...AND U SAT HIM ON THE ****ING BENCH FOR A YEAR AND DEACTIVATED HIM FOR GAMES...when it WAS CLEAR he was the best pass rusher on the team.
SPARANO IS A COMPLETE IDIOT

ive said we have drafted ZERO playmakers and thats true....but u want to know what is funny??

weve let some guys get away that were playmakers on this roster. i know everybody hated ginn....but he never got a fair shake and the FACT is he made more plays offensively than ANYBODY weve had on the roster the past 4 years. the guy has taken 7 or more kicks and punts to the house IN LIMITED return duty in his time in the NFL. SEVEN. some were called back on poor calls including his kick he just had in san fran....it doesnt change the fact the guy would is the second best return man in the league in terms of abilty to take one to the house. HES PROVEN IT....regardless if u want to be blinded by ur hate for him cause we didnt get quinn or not.

we also let matt roth out of town FOR NOTHING....THAT decision COST us a future second rounder....because we had to pick somebody to replace him (MISI)

also porter and taylor...im not going to give these guys **** for those moves tho as it was pretty much time anyways. the only thing id say is PERHAPS they could have gotten something before the trade deadline last year for porter which is probably something they should have done. and then i question the decision not to bring back taylor this year. they should have played him exclusively in passing situations and in his familiar spot at RE with wake rushing from the other side (which he has all year) our pass rush would have been much more formidable.

so we let 4 guys out of here for nothing and havent found one single playmaker in the DRAFT to replace them to date. I will hold out hope on Misi, Rashad Jones, and Davis to be fair however

 

[Billk78]

Out of curiosity and as a follow up to all the statements here....would you guys have a problem if we kept Ireland around another year? I realize everyone (almost) wants Sparano and Henne gone, but how about Ireland? Should he go too or does he deserve a little longer with a better coach and possibly a new qb?

 

[afishfan]

Wow... did all you guys start watching football in 2008?

How any fan of the Miami Dolphins (with their previous draft history) can sit and complain about the last three drafts is totally beyond me. I'm trying to make allowances for hurt feelings, and "heat of the moment" critics.... but just wow.

ill agree with u to a point....but just because dave wandstedt couldnt draft ONE SINGLE PLAYER doesnt mean we should be satified with below average to average drafting at best by a guy thats supposed to be one of the very best personal guys in the game. and truthfully if Sparano wasnt so terribly inept then the draft wouldnt be AS big of an issue

 

[afishfan]

Out of curiosity and as a follow up to all the statements here....would you guys have a problem if we kept Ireland around another year? I realize everyone (almost) wants Sparano and Henne gone, but how about Ireland? Should he go too or does he deserve a little longer with a better coach and possibly a new qb?

the best i can say on this one is NOT SURE....its hard to say...and well never know....when he was in Dallas with parcells they had one draft that was like WOW....absolutely brilliant....if sparano wasnt so damn retarded and they did just a couple things that werent just so damn retarded (jake long in conjuction with pat white and then henne doesnt work out....along with another essentially first rounder being a bust so far in merling) plus just cutting Roth, trading Ginn for nothing....dicking with Jason Taylor.....****ing with the bottom of the roster...and then having a special team collapse

i mean its ALL the little ****....but if Sparano wasnt MORONO i honestly think Ireland gets a little bit of a pass. BUT morono has just done too many questionable retarded things. if ireland has to go because MORONO does so be it cause sparano has to go.....and obviously Ireland was ADAMANT ENOUGH if there were some players he felt should have been drafted and we didnt.....so his hands are dirty too

 

[wockenbauss]

ill agree with u to a point....but just because dave wandstedt couldnt draft ONE SINGLE PLAYER doesnt mean we should be satified with below average to average drafting at best by a guy thats supposed to be one of the very best personal guys in the game. and truthfully if Sparano wasnt so terribly inept then the draft wouldnt be AS big of an issue

It wasn't just Dave Wannstedt... although I agree he was the worst of the bunch. The Dolphins haven't drafted as well as these last three drafts since the early 70's IMHO.

That includes Speilman, Johnson (who drafted some defensive gems, but batted .000 on offensive players), and Shula.

I don't agree that our drafting the last three years has been below average at best... nor do I agree that coach Sparano is a terribly inept. I can see players being developed... which to me, is the #1 job of any coaching staff. You want a terribly inept head coach - try out Cam Cameron. I haven't seen any sign that Sparano is losing this team the way Cameron did.

Perhaps it's because I've been a fan longer than most of you have been alive... but I see most posts at this site as terribly reactionary, over-wrought, and some are downright nonsensical. The pining for Ross to toss Tony and sign up Cowher..because Sparano is too conservative, married to the run game, etc.... Did none of you watch Cowher's teams?!?!??! lol I like coach Cowher... and yet he was in the league for 13 or 14 years before he won a title - and had multiple losing seasons in the meantime!

I just don't see it guys....

but don't let me stop you. Sorry to interrupt the profanity laced tirades with a different perspective. :)