Vegas Views The Dolphins Somewhat Favorably For Next Year - What Does It Mean And Imply About The Team? | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Vegas Views The Dolphins Somewhat Favorably For Next Year - What Does It Mean And Imply About The Team?

The Goat said:
The question I'll ask again is this:

How has starting over with a new staff, roster and scheme every few years worked out? Tired of waiting 20 plus years for a playoff win? Me too. Do you know that no coach has lasted more than three full seasons since the Dolphins last won a playoff game? Flipping the table over every few years hasn't worked.

Right now, McDaniel is HC, and at least he has a plan. That's more than I could say for a few of the coaches Miami has trotted out this millennium. Has he made mistakes? Absolutely. Will he learn from them? Hopefully. And right now, Tua is his guy. Grier tends to give his HC what they want as much as possible. So it's likely Tua is here for a bit.
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Need a new owner, period. This organization DOES NOT win...doesn't know how to. Sure he can make a sick deal on some land, but establish a championship NFL franchise, sorry.
 
phinsforlife said:
nice try i said largely uninjured at the end of the season, when the offense and tua were crapping themselves. achane was playing, armstead was playing, etc. the only one that wasnt was connor williams really. relative to the injuries all teams and all offenses have, the offense was well within the normative bound of healthy for the end of the season. the defense, different story. and ps you want to give tua $50mm a year, there is going to be alot less on offense around him than he had at the end of this season!
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Nice try? Again, the offence wasn't anywhere near "within the normative bound of healthy" at the end of the season compared to the teams we played. I'm not even mentioning the defence yet.

Baltimore...
Wynn, Williams, Hunt, Waddle and Mostert were all out. Tyreek was in a walking boot before and after the game, Eichenberg and Jackson were questionable for the game. So that's 5 starters missing, 2 guys that played being questionable and a clearly hobbled Hill who we all saw limping off the field after the game.

Buffalo...
Wynn, Williams, Waddle, Mostert were all out. That's 4 starters. Hunt was back after missing the previous 4 games.

KC...
Yay, we are down to just Wynn and Williams as the starters missing. Mostert and Waddle both questionable (and no doubts wouldn't have played if it wasn't a playoff game) and early in the week the team had 19 players on the injury report.

Now for the opponents offences...

Baltimore...
Andrews and Zietler out. Flowers questionable.

Buffalo...
No one missing, not a single starter.

KC...
Skyy Moore and Kadarius Toney out, not sure which one was the starter.

So yet again you are being "economical" with the truth in your attempts to turn everything into the Dolphins and Tua sucks. Just have a look at those injuries, the offence was missing half of it's starters and was fielding the worse interior OL in the entire league. Do you think KC beats a healthy Miami in Miami if they are missing Joe Thunney, Trey Smith, Creed Humphries, Isiah Pacheco and Rashee Rice while Kelce is in a walking boot and Humphries backup is listed as questionable along with Jawaan James? Please, just let the extent of the Miami injury situation sink in.

Also I do want them to re-sign and extend Tua simply because doing that allows you to keep together this core of players for another 2 seasons. Signing him to a deal with a $50M AAV doesn't mean we have to start cutting everyone, it actually means we keep together this offence and this roster for at least another 2 years. You give yourself an out on Tua's deal after 3 years where you blow everything, tank the season and hopefully draft his replacement with a high pick.

What will be a harder decision is if Tua keeps posting 100 passer rating seasons but never gets over the hump in the playoffs, so over the next 2/3 years we either want him to win in the playoffs or fall flat on his face during the regular season to make it a clear cut decision.
 
Springveldt said:
Nice try? Again, the offence wasn't anywhere near "within the normative bound of healthy" at the end of the season compared to the teams we played. I'm not even mentioning the defence yet.

Baltimore...
Wynn, Williams, Hunt, Waddle and Mostert were all out. Tyreek was in a walking boot before and after the game, Eichenberg and Jackson were questionable for the game. So that's 5 starters missing, 2 guys that played being questionable and a clearly hobbled Hill who we all saw limping off the field after the game.

Buffalo...
Wynn, Williams, Waddle, Mostert were all out. That's 4 starters. Hunt was back after missing the previous 4 games.

KC...
Yay, we are down to just Wynn and Williams as the starters missing. Mostert and Waddle both questionable (and no doubts wouldn't have played if it wasn't a playoff game) and early in the week the team had 19 players on the injury report.

Now for the opponents offences...

Baltimore...
Andrews and Zietler out. Flowers questionable.

Buffalo...
No one missing, not a single starter.

KC...
Skyy Moore and Kadarius Toney out, not sure which one was the starter.
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Right off the bat the Ravens didnā€™t have Andrews and down to their 3rd or 4th RB

Bills didnā€™t have Milano (who kills us) and some other guys

There are always gonna be key injuries we canā€™t let that derail every season. Every team has them

Edit - guess I didnā€™t see you mention Andrews at first look
 
Martel13 said:
Right off the bat the Ravens didnā€™t have Andrews and down to their 3rd or 4th RB

Bills didnā€™t have Milano (who kills us) and some other guys

There are always gonna be key injuries we canā€™t let that derail every season. Every team has them
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I was only pointing out offensive players missing. Buffalo had all 11 starters. Baltimore was missing Andrews and Zietler, I'm not sure who their starting RB was meant to be, maybe he was missing but I thought Edwards was expected to be the starter from what I've read and he had 198 carries on the season and started against the Dolphins.

Of course there will always be key injuries but to say the Dolphins had key injuries in line with what is expected is complete and utter nonsense.
 
It implies we have a foundation, we have nucleus to build around, year in, year out...Salary cap issues or not.

We are a team, that each year from here on needs to be accounted for, and will have year where if things go right, will be a team that will look special, will look on a top level or above level of their own.

From here on, Grier and the coaches will be the biggest factors of how good we are each year, and our biggest nemesis, Injuries, will be the biggest factor how long in the season we stay like that.

We have right now a few factor that will impact our 2024 season...

- How good a DC is Weaver?
- Do we really lose Wilkins, if not, how much will we be paying him?
- How much will Tua get, and count against the salary cap?
- Are any or all of Mostert, Gink, X, Hunt, Williams coming back?
- Will McDanial's offense calling issues continue late in season, or what will be done to fix it?
- Can we finally snag a quality All-Purpose TE?

A lot of questions that need to be answered, but no matter what the answers are, Miami will be one of the teams to beat for quite a while.
 
Springveldt said:
Nice try? Again, the offence wasn't anywhere near "within the normative bound of healthy" at the end of the season compared to the teams we played. I'm not even mentioning the defence yet.

Baltimore...
Wynn, Williams, Hunt, Waddle and Mostert were all out. Tyreek was in a walking boot before and after the game, Eichenberg and Jackson were questionable for the game. So that's 5 starters missing, 2 guys that played being questionable and a clearly hobbled Hill who we all saw limping off the field after the game.

Buffalo...
Wynn, Williams, Waddle, Mostert were all out. That's 4 starters. Hunt was back after missing the previous 4 games.

KC...
Yay, we are down to just Wynn and Williams as the starters missing. Mostert and Waddle both questionable (and no doubts wouldn't have played if it wasn't a playoff game) and early in the week the team had 19 players on the injury report.

Now for the opponents offences...

Baltimore...
Andrews and Zietler out. Flowers questionable.

Buffalo...
No one missing, not a single starter.

KC...
Skyy Moore and Kadarius Toney out, not sure which one was the starter.

So yet again you are being "economical" with the truth in your attempts to turn everything into the Dolphins and Tua sucks. Just have a look at those injuries, the offence was missing half of it's starters and was fielding the worse interior OL in the entire league. Do you think KC beats a healthy Miami in Miami if they are missing Joe Thunney, Trey Smith, Creed Humphries, Isiah Pacheco and Rashee Rice while Kelce is in a walking boot and Humphries backup is listed as questionable along with Jawaan James? Please, just let the extent of the Miami injury situation sink in.

Also I do want them to re-sign and extend Tua simply because doing that allows you to keep together this core of players for another 2 seasons. Signing him to a deal with a $50M AAV doesn't mean we have to start cutting everyone, it actually means we keep together this offence and this roster for at least another 2 years. You give yourself an out on Tua's deal after 3 years where you blow everything, tank the season and hopefully draft his replacement with a high pick.

What will be a harder decision is if Tua keeps posting 100 passer rating seasons but never gets over the hump in the playoffs, so over the next 2/3 years we either want him to win in the playoffs or fall flat on his face during the regular season to make it a clear cut decision.
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this is incorrect. first of all re your point/excuse about kc injuries, kc actually played the SB without Joe Thuney and WRs that could catch, and had a RB fumble in the red zone, and Mahomes still got it done. injuries are just excuses. at the end of the season the offense was well within the normative bound of healthy. the ravens team you mentioned, their whole secondary was OUT for the game against the Dolphins, and they still killed us, and our offense did crap.

as far as your point that giving tua a big extension keeps the team together for 2 years, and then we can just walk away, makes no sense. maybe you need to explain that better. I think what you are implying is we can give him a huge new deal, but shove all the money into the future. fine, but if you do that, and structure it your way, where you can get out from tua in two years, although the player can go, the cap hit does not leave. you ultimately have to eat that money. there is no free lunch. you cannot sign him to a huge new deal that has only a $10mm cap hit the next two years that we then get out of scott free
 
phinsforlife said:
this is incorrect. first of all re your point/excuse about kc injuries, kc actually played the SB without Joe Thuney and WRs that could catch, and had a RB fumble in the red zone, and Mahomes still got it done. injuries are just excuses. at the end of the season the offense was well within the normative bound of healthy. the ravens team you mentioned, their whole secondary was OUT for the game against the Dolphins, and they still killed us, and our offense did crap.

as far as your point that giving tua a big extension keeps the team together for 2 years, and then we can just walk away, makes no sense. maybe you need to explain that better. I think what you are implying is we can give him a huge new deal, but shove all the money into the future. fine, but if you do that, and structure it your way, where you can get out from tua in two years, although the player can go, the cap hit does not leave. you ultimately have to eat that money. there is no free lunch. you cannot sign him to a huge new deal that has only a $10mm cap hit the next two years that we then get out of scott free
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Itā€™s not incorrect, I stated all the injuries. You are the one downplaying them and now are trying to bring the defence into it as you didnā€™t realise how healthy our opponents were on offence. We can do defence as well if you like but I promise itā€™s going to look even worse for you.

If you believe the Dolphins were within the normal range for injuries and most teams are signing 3 guys off their coach on wildcard week who actually took snaps then there really is no point in continuing to debate with you as you are so far removed from reality itā€™s not worth it.

As for the contract, look at how the Eagles structured Hurts. You give yourself an out and yes itā€™s massively painful for that season as the cap hit is enormous but you are tanking the season to get a high pick and a new QB anyway so it doesnā€™t matter. You take the pain with the knowledge that you are drafting a new QB and your cap is in much better shape. Itā€™s either that or you limp along like the Saints.
 
PhinFan1968 said:
Need a new owner, period. This organization DOES NOT win...doesn't know how to. Sure he can make a sick deal on some land, but establish a championship NFL franchise, sorry.
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Why be sorry?

Thereā€™s nothing that can be done about an owner.
 
phinsforlife said:
this is incorrect. first of all re your point/excuse about kc injuries, kc actually played the SB without Joe Thuney and WRs that could catch, and had a RB fumble in the red zone, and Mahomes still got it done. injuries are just excuses. at the end of the season the offense was well within the normative bound of healthy. the ravens team you mentioned, their whole secondary was OUT for the game against the Dolphins, and they still killed us, and our offense did crap.

as far as your point that giving tua a big extension keeps the team together for 2 years, and then we can just walk away, makes no sense. maybe you need to explain that better. I think what you are implying is we can give him a huge new deal, but shove all the money into the future. fine, but if you do that, and structure it your way, where you can get out from tua in two years, although the player can go, the cap hit does not leave. you ultimately have to eat that money. there is no free lunch. you cannot sign him to a huge new deal that has only a $10mm cap hit the next two years that we then get out of scott free
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You should read this. Itā€™s a very clear description of the options available at QB


The key point is that if Tuaā€™s extension is structured in a similar way to Jalen Hurtsā€™ and things donā€™t work out ā€¦ we can move on in 2026 and itā€™ll be painful in cap terms. Or in 2027 much more easily.
 
WestLondonDolphin said:
You should read this. Itā€™s a very clear description of the options available at QB


The key point is that if Tuaā€™s extension is structured in a similar way to Jalen Hurtsā€™ and things donā€™t work out ā€¦ we can move on in 2026 and itā€™ll be painful in cap terms. Or in 2027 much more easily.
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i wonder how the eagles are feeling about that hurts deal now?
 
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