Watch this Space: Victor Cruz

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by jamvinny, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. jamvinny

    jamvinny Well-Known Member

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    A few weeks ago I was thinking about all the options at WR in terms of FA and trades. Larry Fitz has been mentioned on this board and quite rightly so he is class and a great WR. But one name that I pondered on for a while was Victor Cruz. I was trying to consider if he would be a good fit in Miami and the positives outweighed the cons. He is young dynamic, fast and spectacular. Off the field he is a popular guy in the Hispanic community. Stephen Ross is looking for an exciting product with people coming to see it. There seems to be a fit with Victor Cruz as a player who would be a playmaking threat on the field as well as a marketable commodity who would attract the local fan market in Miami.

    He is currently renegotiating a new contract but its not going well as the Giants do not want to overpay him. There is talk off a possible holdout and Cruz becoming a Restricted Free Agent.

    Jeff Ireland has said all options are open including trades in acquring players this offseason.

    I'm not saying Cruz to Miami is going to happen. But there is food for thought to why it could happen.

    Here is the links http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/ugly-cruz-big-blue-article-1.1253448

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...-mara-victor-cruz-asking-too-much-from-giants
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2013
  2. 3rdandinches

    3rdandinches Seasoned Veteran

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    V.Cruz is a special player that never have an opportunity to play somewhere other than NY for the next few years.

    Even if he holds out he's not going anywhere, NY holds all the cards and would be out of their minds to let him go anywhere else. The NYG are a well run franchise they won't let talent just walk away... ask Osi!
     
  3. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    Special player but isnt he a Giants fan from New York? He would be expensive costing a first round pick, but I think the Giants will get a deal done with him anyway.
     
  4. jamvinny

    jamvinny Well-Known Member

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    NY want him to remain a Giant. But if they cant get a deal done I wonder if Miami could turn his head by offering him a lucrative offer. The allure of our tropical weather and Latin American/Hispanic community might sweeten him.
     
  5. dolfin530

    dolfin530 Student of the Game

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    The Giants would be stupid to let him go, ain't happening.
     
  6. Rmanzano

    Rmanzano Member

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    Keep dreaming, NY is not letting him go.
     
  7. Twitches Brew

    Twitches Brew A True Fan

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    It's early. Those reports come put simply to taper Cruz's expectations and try to make him pull back. The owner says stuff like this to get the fans and media on ownership's side.

    Cruz loves NY and is a seriously big-time player. They'd be nuts to let him test the market, even with a tender.

    (but could you imagine the love he would get in South Florida...)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2013
  8. kvado16

    kvado16 A True Fan

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    You guys are so sure to say Victor Cruz isn't going anywhere, but you all must forget how regularly the Giants switch out receivers each year. Idk but it seems as if each year the Giants draft a receiver in the 3rd or 2nd round, they sometimes even draft 2 and they possibly prepared for the worst with Cruz by drafting Reuben Randle last year. All I'm saying is in the eyes of the Giants, Victor is expendable.
     
  9. Phinatic8u

    Phinatic8u Adam ****ing Gase

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    He'd be a god down here lol.
     
  10. TealAttack13

    TealAttack13 A True Fan

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    I love Victor Cruz. He's a really talented players who make those around him better. He has a fantastic attitude and it is addictive. With the Giants missing the playoffs after just winning the Super Bowl, plus losing Mario Manningham to the 9ers, I doubt they are willing to part ways with Cruz. In the end, they'll pay him.
     
  11. kvado16

    kvado16 A True Fan

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    He'd be up on a billboard with DWade, and Lebron as Miami's most beloved.
     
  12. jamvinny

    jamvinny Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Wouldnt that scenario please Ross and Dee.
     
  13. FINMAN13

    FINMAN13 Starter

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    Giants have no cap and going to lose Osi along with a few cuts like S Phillps. The GM has said that they would put the restricted tag on him. 1st round pick would be the cost if Miami offers him a deal the Giants cannot match. I think this is Miami's best option with the #12 pick as it stands. But I would still try to trade down and then offer a great deal to Cruz.

    Giants just do not have the cap to keep the wealth of talent that they have right now. But that does not mean they won't replace those players quickly. They have proven to be great at scouting talent and finding great players from the draft. I think the Giants will have 2 first round picks this year. Someone will offer Cruz a deal they cannot match due to cap and other players.
     
  14. Fin-O

    Fin-O Active Member

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    Cruz is a RFA, and would cost a 1st and a 3rd AND 10+M a year.

    Think I would rather roll with Wallace and those picks personally.
     
  15. FINMAN13

    FINMAN13 Starter

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    I don't have an issue for a 8-10 Mil contract for Cruz.

    But I thought the tender about was just a 1st round pick.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/page/2/

    http://www.steelersdepot.com/2013/01/2013-nfl-restricted-free-agent-tender-amounts-announced/

    I would prefer to let Hartline walk and use the 4-5 mil for him to go towards securing Bowe and Cruz. We would not have a 1st, but would have two very good WR's and we have the ammo to fill in other holes during the draft.

    Bowe and Cruz would give Tanny some great targets and keep defenses honest.
     
  16. Fin-O

    Fin-O Active Member

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    Your not getting Cruz for less than 10M per IMO....

    plus the picks.

    i like Cruz a lot but I'd rather have #12 and Wallace rather than Cruz.
     
  17. FINMAN13

    FINMAN13 Starter

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    We all value players differently. I just don't think Wallace is on the same level as Cruz overall. I don't think it would be a 1st and 3rd. I think it is 1st only.
     
  18. Fin-O

    Fin-O Active Member

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    Even so (I agree Cruz is better) you in essence are saying Cruz < Wallace, a 1st rounder, and I just do not agree.
     
  19. Fin-O

    Fin-O Active Member

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    Oops, I did that wrong. <
     
  20. 3rdandinches

    3rdandinches Seasoned Veteran

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    I have no idea where you think one of the best players on their team is expendable. They hold the cards, all of them. They can workout a deal their comfortable with and if doesn't sign he plays under the restricted number. If some crazy team threw an unreal offer they can simply match, and when is the last time a team did that? The G-men once again hold all the cards!
     
  21. kvado16

    kvado16 A True Fan

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    When did I say I think he's expendable? I said in the New York Giants eyes, he is expendable which is fair based on their track record with wide receivers so they're not too ecstatic about spending the big bucks Cruz would demand. And Cruz is definitely worth an unreal offer.
     
  22. Robby

    Robby Rookie

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    Maybe Randy Starks for Cruz?
     
  23. jamvinny

    jamvinny Well-Known Member

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    What is interesting and a possible barometer of what Cruz would use as leverage with the Giants is the deal Mike Wallace will get for whoever he signs with. I'm sure he will want to be paid the same or more. This all about timing and Cruz wants to maximize the opportunity of getting a lucrative contract now as opposed to later.
     
  24. 3rdandinches

    3rdandinches Seasoned Veteran

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    By saying in the Giants eyes he's expendable, that's when!

    What track record of letting young great players go does the Giants have? They let M.Manningham go and he's far from anything but a #3 receiver. I just don't see the point your trying to make. V.Cruz will be a NYG for a long time, period.
     
  25. TealAttack13

    TealAttack13 A True Fan

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    The only way I would ever do that, would be if Starks said he wasn't willing to resign here. I love Cruz, but with the options available in FA and the likeliness that we are Jennings' preferred destination, it's not worth giving up an important piece of our defense.
     
  26. FINMAN13

    FINMAN13 Starter

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    Not much on bleacherreport articles...

    But this does show a list of the 21 free agents the Giants have this offseason. Some great talent that will require some big deals to keep for sure.
    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-giants-salary-cap-scenario-heading-into-2013

    Here is a link to all of their contracts. I'm sure they have some players they can re-do their contracts to help make room to resign their main free agent targets.
    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/

    They are thought to be about 4-5 mil over the cap as it stands and needing to resign some of their 21 free agents and draft picks. This is not an easy feat and some great talent will be playing elsewhere for the Giants. I think Cruz could be one of them b/c of Nicks and company.

    ...

    He may not sign with Miami, but some team is going to be willing to give up a 1st for his talents. H. Nicks will be a free agent the year after and will get a big contract to stay on the team long term. Miami has an opening and Cruz is worth the 1st round pick and $$$.
     
  27. Fin-O

    Fin-O Active Member

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    Lol.
     
  28. betadog

    betadog Well-Known Member

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    A buddy of mine is a G-Men fan and brought this part up. Cruz is a gifted talent but drops a ton of passes. He has a ton of highlight reel plays as well, but for the money he wants it's questionable if it would be worth it. I completely disagree with the theory that WR's are not great to draft high. Baring character concerns I would completely draft one high if they have serious talent. I like the idea that the fins grab one of the free agents; however buyer beware...
     
  29. Twitches Brew

    Twitches Brew A True Fan

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    If I'm Cruz I'm trying to get paid for what I did while making $550,000 for two years: 2,600yds and 19tds. Damn! (that doesn't include playoffs). And he wasn't even a starter til like halfway through 2011 season. He would be the man in Miami.
     
  30. Cowboynemo

    Cowboynemo Well-Known Member

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    Would be great....but the Giants are not going to let him walk !
     
  31. kvado16

    kvado16 A True Fan

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    I really don't understand why you Finheaven guys always act like the experts, and you're telling me what I believe now haha. Ok dude, take it down a tone and when you get hired at ESPN I'll give you some credibility. As for the point I'm trying to make is that the New York Giants draft one or two receivers annually, they really could live without Victor Cruz not saying they would let him go, but I wouldn't put it past them especially if he demands too much money.
     
  32. 3rdandinches

    3rdandinches Seasoned Veteran

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    Okay, okay you win, by the way NE believes Brady is expendable. They have a history of dumping QB's....Bledsoe, Cassell etc... Brady's next! Can't wait to sign him.
     
  33. kvado16

    kvado16 A True Fan

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    And it's statements like these, that proves to me that you still live in your mothers basement playing NFL Analyst on your laptop. Have fun, don't play for too long the screen will hurt your eyes.
     
  34. Fin Fan in Cali

    Fin Fan in Cali Joanne Shaw Taylor Super Donator

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    Please ensure we keep the posts respectful. Thanks John
     
  35. Elliott 1

    Elliott 1 Banned Hammered

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    The ignorance displayed in some of these posts is truly astounding.

    The Giants are in deep deep deep cap hell!

    They aren't just a little disadvantaged here, they are on their knees with a gun to their head.

    Unlike the US government they can't spend money they don't have.

    Yes, they may sign Cruz to a long term deal, but I seriously doubt that is even in their plans at all.

    They want to tender him and have another team offer him a contract and give up their 1st round pick. Nothing could be better for their team, but Cruz and his agent are threatening a hold out.
    If they tender him 3mil and he holds out, they get nothing and it would probably cost them their LT Will Beatty, who is young,highly ranked, and an UFA.

    As it is they are going to be gutting their team just to stay in business. Boley is gone, Diehl and Locklear are going to be gone. Blackburn won't be brought back, even Antrel Rolle will probably be gone if they give Cruz the long term deal.

    Yes, it could happen that they keep him, but the sacrifice would be huge and downright stupid IMO.

    They may trade him. There is no risk in trading him, and yes, you can totally trade RFA's. Trading him eliminates the risk of his holding out in case Cruz doesn't get offered a deal from another team; however IMO, it would be a forgone conclusion that if Cruz is tendered the Patriots would give up their late 1st and sign him to a long term deal.

    You guys who think the Giants would try to match an offer in the 50 mil range just aren't paying attention.

    This is what the Dolphins really really really do not want to happen! Cruz to the Pats would be catastrophic! Cruz is the perfect WR for Brady.

    Yes I advocate the trade for Cruz. It would be a very smart and strategic move, so....Yup, Ireland would never consider it.

    It may even be possible to do a trade that didn't involve our 1st round pick.

    The Giants have over 20 FA's and no money to sign them. They are in the hole without these guys salaries considered.

    Dolphins have some young, cheap players the Giants may like.
     
  36. 3rdandinches

    3rdandinches Seasoned Veteran

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    No matter what team that has poor cap situation they normally decide to cut veterans, not the young pro-bowl talented players. There is a long way to FA and cuts and re-structuring will be an ongoing event. If they really felt Cruz was expendable then why would they be trying to sign him to a new deal?

    Look I want to upgrade our team as much as anyone else wants to but you all know even some of the better free agents never make it to FA, let alone a restricted top flight young wr. But if it floats your boat to dream about stuff that has a .000001% chance of happening then go for it. I'm sure when it doesn't happen you can blame it on Ireland as well!

    Mom's calling, gotta go.
     
  37. dcnr226

    dcnr226 A True Fan Donator

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    Victor Cruz is Puerto Rican, a virtual God in NY, and relatively cheap. Not happening.
     
  38. Elliott 1

    Elliott 1 Banned Hammered

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    He and his agent are asking for a 10 mil a yr deal and threatening a hold out if they give him the RFA tender.

    Both the Giants and Cruz and his agent know exactly what is going on here. It's just guys like you who don't get it.

    The Giants have to appear to want to Cruz a long term deal but both sides know it really impossible for them to do so unless Cruz accepts a deal way below his market value.

    Cruz and his agent are in this business to make money and Cruz will make a lot more money in Florida with no income tax and playing for a fat contract than just bending over and taking the RFA tender shaft.

    The Giants may risk tendering him in the shadow of a holdout, but they are really in no position to do so and they certainly aren't holding all the cards; not by a long shot.

    Everyone with a brain knows the Giants FO wants to get draft picks and/or players for him and they will spend the cap space on Will Beatty their LT who is an UFA,young, and one of the highest ranked LT's in the league.

    Like I wrote previously, the Giants aren't having cap difficulties, they are in perhaps the worst shape a team has ever been in during an offseason.

    It happens to these teams that successful year after year. They keep restructing contracts until eventually they hit the wall. It's official the Giants have hit the wall.

    This isn't that hard to figure out. Just count, if you can. The numbers don't lie.
     
  39. 3rdandinches

    3rdandinches Seasoned Veteran

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    So he holds out, where's he going? He's just not going to be playing football and not getting paid...how does that mean NYG don't hold the cards?

    It's no different then the players franchised but threaten to hold out. The NYG could very well trade him and be done with it, but does that make any sense what so ever? You don't spend incredible amounts of time and money to find this kind of talent to just let it go after it develops.
     
  40. MexDolfan

    MexDolfan Seasoned Veteran

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    I don't see any talent close to Victor Cruz on this draft. I would throw a first round pick in a nutshell for him. Ireland is a nice trader, so he could include another things in exchange allowing this team to recover a 3rd or 4th round pick.

    The thing is Jerry Reese, NY Giants' GM, is acting rude by asking Victor Cruz to sign for less than $5M/year with a pathetic signing bonus.
    Mr. Reese is arguing there's a salary cap and NY Giants' roster has important holes at defense.

    We all know Victor Cruz deserves top WR money and he would be welcomed in Miami to the point that minority owner Gloria Stefan would make a new music hit for his dancing celebrations.
    Once upon a time Cruz got his dream come true in NY, but Miami could be his happily ever after paradise.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 5, 2013

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