Why Miami Should Draft a First Day QB.....

[TrinidadDolfan]

I'm not suggesting Beck isn't given a shot, I'm saying that until we find a bonafide big time QB, we need to have multiple prospects in camp every year until we find one.

well said.

bullseye

 

[TrinidadDolfan]

Wow, calm down there bud. Where in my post did I say dont draft a QB? I said dont take one in the first 3 rounds, but never mentioned not drafting one. You dont seem to understand that drafting a QB wont help the team this year so its not worth taking one in the first few rounds.

sorry, can't calm down on this one.

We are not going to the Superbowl this year, so we are not about making a final push to win the division.

We are about rebuilding to the point where we can kick the Pats in the teeth 2-3 times a year.

That QB, the one who will be marching us down the field every week, has to be drafted and then seasoned by us to have a chance at dominating 2-3 years from now.

I am tired of everyone else's retreads.

I want our own QB. One that WE drafted. And I want him in aqua come training camp.

 

[JsBaugh]

sorry, can't calm down on this one.

We are not going to the Superbowl this year, so we are not about making a final push to win the division.

We are about rebuilding to the point where we can kick the Pats in the teeth 2-3 times a year.

That QB, the one who will be marching us down the field every week, has to be drafted and then seasoned by us to have a chance at dominating 2-3 years from now.

I am tired of everyone else's retreads.

I want our own QB. One that WE drafted. And I want him in aqua come training camp.

If Beck was declared a bust then drafting a QB early makes sense, but its obvious they dont feel that way so yes it would be a waste of a pick.

 

[BlueFin]

I think if we drafted Ryan we would trade Beck. Beck would probably slot somewhere in the 2nd round so we could probably get a 3rd rounder no problem. After Henne who's the next best prospect Woodson or Johnson or Booty?Beck would be ahead of all three of them. Personally I think he's a better prospect than Henne. I could see us drafting Ryan and trading Beck to Cameron's Ravens for a 3rd

See I disagree, if we draft Ryan, let him, Beck and McCown slug it out to start. Worry about trading somebody once one of them proves themselves.

 

[mrodriguez4096]

My philosophy is this, John Beck and Josh McCown are not "proven", by "proven" I mean they have demonstrated the ability to lead a team to the playoffs and perhaps a championship.

Now this philosophy starts with the premise that the QB is the single most important position in pro football, without a good one you have very little chance of winning a championship, the exceptions come when you have an all-time great defense such as the top 3 in history (85' Bears, the Ravens and Bucs of recent times) Short of having one of the greatest, dominating defenses in history, you need a QB who can make the money plays when the game is on the line.

Without a known "proven" QB on the roster, you should continue to accumalte QB's until you find one. This philosophy was one Ron Wolf shared, if you remember the slew of QB's he had in Green Bay...........Favre, Brunnell, Matt Hasselback, and others. When they had a surplus they simply traded away Brunnell and Hasselback for good value.

The newer rules have opened up the passing games in the NFL and only accenuated the Import of the QB position, you simply must have a QB who can make big plays and score points..............period.

Its simply not sufficient to draft a Beck in the second round, watch him struggle most of the time as a starter, sign a journeyman like Josh McCown, and then sit back and say.....ok, our QB position is "good" for now.

If we are in a position to draft a QB in this draft, and at that pick the QB is a good value, we should make the pick if we have a conviction on him.

While I agree with you, I am having a hard time finding someone that has "ability to lead to the playoffs or championship". Wouldn't these types of players have to be groomed to succeed to get to that level? With that said wouldn't someone like John Beck fall into that category? I am all for picking up someone in the draft that presents value but to be convinced that Beck doesn't have the "it" factor given such little time last year, I don't know if I am ready to do that. I would like to see what John can do with a healthy staff and time.

 

[dagger151]

Wow, calm down there bud. Where in my post did I say dont draft a QB? I said dont take one in the first 3 rounds, but never mentioned not drafting one. You dont seem to understand that drafting a QB wont help the team this year so its not worth taking one in the first few rounds.

I agree, we need a QB but htere isnt one worthy of a top 64 pick when you have so many needs in other areas. Take OL, DL , and either a DB or WR on Day 1, then go for a guy like Andre Woodson with the first pick of Day 2. This guy was off the charts early in the season. With some proper coaching he could develop into a good QB especially from a 3rd round. Look at trent Edwards last year. He showed promise.

Give Beck a shot, he had no talent and played his first few games inthe rain and cold with No line to protect him and no Ronnie Brown threat.

 

[BlueFin]

While I agree with you, I am having a hard time finding someone that has "ability to lead to the playoffs or championship". Wouldn't these types of players have to be groomed to succeed to get to that level? With that said wouldn't someone like John Beck fall into that category? I am all for picking up someone in the draft that presents value but to be convinced that Beck doesn't have the "it" factor given such little time last year, I don't know if I am ready to do that. I would like to see what John can do with a healthy staff and time.

Lets put it this way, although not every QB comes out of the gate totally polished, you can usually tell that they have it. Marino, you knew very early, Manning, you knew he was good, Elway....same thing, Tom Brady, didn't take him long to prove himself.

Beck didn't show that last year, he may still, he deserves a shot, but we can't stop looking for "the man" until we find "the man".

I like the idea of grabbing another young guy we like to compete with Beck and McCown and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[burger13]

Lets put it this way, although not every QB comes out of the gate totally polished, you can usually tell that they have it. Marino, you knew very early, Manning, you knew he was good, Elway....same thing, Tom Brady, didn't take him long to prove himself.

Beck didn't show that last year, he may still, he deserves a shot, but we can't stop looking for "the man" until we find "the man".

I like the idea of grabbing another young guy we like to compete with Beck and McCown and let the chips fall where they may.

Elway threw for 47% 7 TD and 14 INT's his rookie year. Brady sat a year. Same with Favre. Eli was bad as a rookie....definately didn't show anything close to 'it'. Didn't he just win a Super Bowl? You could go on for ever with good QB's who were unimpressive as rookies.

I am 100% in agreement that if there is a good value available at QB in the draft, then they should consider it, but I am 100% against reaching just for the sake of taking a day 1 QB.

 

[WVDolphan]

I somewhat agree with that. But specifically talking about our situation in Miami, I completely feel that you have to give Beck an absolute legit shot at the starting job.

Well he will be in camp whether we draft a QB or not. Right? So he will have a chance irrespective of drafting a QB.

He has played far too few games with far too little talent around him to make any assumptions about him just yet.

Well we can make SOME assumptions cant we? Couldnt we assume his hands wont grow? He is a GROWN man after all. I think he is all finished growing. Couldnt we assume as well that his release will remain as quick as it was last year? Unless he gets injured or something, he will probably still have a nice quick release.

That being said, i wouldnt completely be against drafting a QB in the mid to later rounds for future development. This way there is no real large money investment in the player

Well dont we have to invest alot of money in SOMEONE who we draft? We do have the first pick correct? I would just assume invest alot of money in a QB over any other position. After all, QB is usually one of the highest paid players when you have a good one. Right?

But I dont think it would be in our best interest to draft a QB with any of our 1st or 2nd round picks, simply because we have way too many holes to fill at other positions.

I still dont understand this frequent argument. Cant we fill holes with our picks in rounds 3-7? We do have alot of holes. In fact there isnt a position on our team where we are truly set. So why not consider the QB position one of these holes that need filling? Isnt QB the most important position as well? I think it is. So if thats a hole why would you prefer to fill other ones in the early rounds and not the QB one?

Parcell's does seem to like to find QB's that arent big names and make them into starters, so look out. Just look in Dallas with Romo, and others that are slipping my mind at the moment

Ummmm thats because they dont exist. Youre just pulling this one straight out of your ***. Again a huge Beck backer who wants us to have a QB come out of nowhere to be our guy and overshadow Beck, but not a top flight prospect.

 

[WVDolphan]

Your point would be logical if this team didnt need so many positions filled. Another young QB on the roster is not helping this team AT ALL! This draft is about finding players that can start now and make an impact. Any QB taken wouldnt be ready for at least a year and if Beck/McCwon pan out then you just wasted a pick. I dont see a problem taking one in the later rounds but not the first 3.

One of those holes you speak of is the QB position. That position is the most important btw. Just so ya know.

How is another young QB not going to help this team? Do we even have a young QB btw? You said another one as if we already had some.

You say this draft is about finding guys who can start now and make an impact.......well are QBs incapable of making an impact their first year? If youre answer is yes then go tell that to Roethlischoker, Marino, Bledsoe, and P.Manning just to name a few.

Also you talk about needing guys to make an impact right away, yet at the same time talk about all the holes that we need to fill. That dosent make sense. On one hand you act like we are a couple of players from making a run at it by saying we need guys who can impact right away in the draft, but then saying we have so many holes(and thats true) would indicate the opposite. Think about it. Seems like you just have a liking for John Beck and do not want us to draft a QB who might be better than Beck, because saying we have a ton of holes and then saying we need to draft guys who can impact right away just dosent make sense. We need to draft good players PERIOD. At any and all positions. We need to draft guys that in 3-4 seasons will be SERIOUS impact players and the foundation of a championship caliber team, ESPECIALLY QB!

And if Beck and McCown pan out, how is it a waste to draft a QB necessarily. What if that drafted guy pans out to be an elite QB? Even if Beck turns into a good player it is not a waste if the guy is the goods. I think McCown only has a 2 or 3 year deal too. Plus, we know exactly what he is. He has already "panned out" into what he is. A decent QB who can start if he is your best option but, more or less a decent backup.

So I say we invest heavy in the QB position, draft another guy early and let he and Beck battle to see who's the guy to lead our franchise for the next decade +.

 

[WVDolphan]

We can still give John Beck a chance and still choose a quarterback between rounds 2-5 or something.

Hypothetically speaking, even if we drafted Ryan #1, we still probably would start John Beck so drafting a QB does not mean we are looking for a day1 starter...but like the first poster mentioned, more of insurance.

Ummm dude. I hate to break this to ya. But, John Beck wont be starting even if we dont draft any QBs. If we were to draft Matt Ryan, there would be a really good chance Beck would be the 3rd stringer. Josh McCown is are starter right now and I really cant understand why that isnt obvious to everyone at this point. If we draft Ryan, he will have a shot at starting week one, but Beck would have to really impress in camp and preseason to start over McCown IMHO.

 

[adamprez2003]

One of those holes you speak of is the QB position. That position is the most important btw. Just so ya know.

How is another young QB not going to help this team? Do we even have a young QB btw? You said another one as if we already had some.

You say this draft is about finding guys who can start now and make an impact.......well are QBs incapable of making an impact their first year? If youre answer is yes then go tell that to Roethlischoker, Marino, Bledsoe, and P.Manning just to name a few.

Also you talk about needing guys to make an impact right away, yet at the same time talk about all the holes that we need to fill. That dosent make sense. On one hand you act like we are a couple of players from making a run at it by saying we need guys who can impact right away in the draft, but then saying we have so many holes(and thats true) would indicate the opposite. Think about it. Seems like you just have a liking for John Beck and do not want us to draft a QB who might be better than Beck, because saying we have a ton of holes and then saying we need to draft guys who can impact right away just dosent make sense. We need to draft good players PERIOD. At any and all positions. We need to draft guys that in 3-4 seasons will be SERIOUS impact players and the foundation of a championship caliber team, ESPECIALLY QB!

And if Beck and McCown pan out, how is it a waste to draft a QB necessarily. What if that drafted guy pans out to be an elite QB? Even if Beck turns into a good player it is not a waste if the guy is the goods. I think McCown only has a 2 or 3 year deal too. Plus, we know exactly what he is. He has already "panned out" into what he is. A decent QB who can start if he is your best option but, more or less a decent backup.

So I say we invest heavy in the QB position, draft another guy early and let he and Beck battle to see who's the guy to lead our franchise for the next decade +.

Great points WV. There are many reasons to be against drafting Ryan and maybe picking someone else. The "we have too many holes to fill" argument is not one of them

 

[dagger151]

Ummm dude. I hate to break this to ya. But, John Beck wont be starting even if we dont draft any QBs. If we were to draft Matt Ryan, there would be a really good chance Beck would be the 3rd stringer. Josh McCown is are starter right now and I really cant understand why that isnt obvious to everyone at this point. If we draft Ryan, he will have a shot at starting week one, but Beck would have to really impress in camp and preseason to start over McCown IMHO.

McCown couldnt even keep the Raiders starting job, what makes you think he will beat out Beck? Look, Beck didnt start well but he was on his rear the whole time since he didnt have time to throw. He didnt have a receiver to throw to, he had a LT out of position protecting his blind side, he didnt have Ronnie Brown in the backfield, and it was raining and cold for his first few games. I cant sit here and write him off without seeing him with some means of talent and time around him over 4 games. When our D is putting us in bad situations playing catch-up, you are going ot have a rough time with no experience.

The guy has a strong arm and with a little time and a WR that can run a route and actually catch the ball, he shoudl be able to offer at LEAST what Ryan can. Both are very similar except for size. Both have the intangibles but some believe Beck can throw deeper than Ryan. Both are pretty accurate but Beck was at something like 70% in college? Miami shoudl have anothe top ten pick next year. Maybe you wait to draft your franchise QB then. Tim Tebow anyone? Stafford? Someone else will shine?

 

[WVDolphan]

Even if we dont draft a QB, there's bound to be a QB on the market (especially after june 1) that isnt old with some potential who would make a good project QB and #3 emergency QB for us in the future.

No. There isnt. And there wont be either. And there isnt going to be anyone available in FA next year.

Not only that next years draft class will be weak especially if Stafford stays in college and reports suggest he will. Tebow might stay as well.

And on top of that, we probably wont be in position to draft the best QB available should we win some games. Dont expect the phins to find themselves in position to take the best QB available in any of the next few years if the FO does their jobs right.

So it seems as though if you want a top QB, might want to go ahead and strike while the iron is hot and take Matt Ryan. Pretty much, its the hand we are dealt.

Or we can keep pretending that Tom Bradys and Tony Romos grow on trees and that its a piece of cake to find a solid QB in late rounds or undrafted.

And we can keep pretending that the problem we have had at QB the last decade, which has lead to a complete downfall of this once proud franchise, resulting in the team having to trade good players for draft picks, hire and fire numerous coaches and FO people, cause a complete lack of home field advantage due to lack of fans and more opposing team fans showing up and being heard, and pretty much turned this team into a laughing stock of the league.

Lets just bury and heads in the sand and keep pretending. Pretend we will magically get a QB to play well and pretend that it isnt true that most great QBs come from early in round 1 of the draft.

None of this is happening. We are fine at QB. Drafting Matt Ryan would be a waste. We are just fine at QB. This franchise is right where it needs to be and QB hasnt been a big problem. QBs can be had anywhere. Trade, FA, late draft, undrafted.....there is QB talent everywhere to be had.

It isnt true that there are about 12 teams starting garbage at QB in a 32 team league. Its easy to get great QB. So when you are in the rare position of picking high in the draft, forget taking the best QB available when you have the chance and desperately need a solid QB. The franchise will be fine.

Just take another OLB/DE or something. Because we all know that if you have a player at that position be the best in the league and win the DPOY you are a lock to win a title. YEA.

GET REAL PEOPLE.

 

[WVDolphan]

i agree, but not in the first few rounds... those ron wolf teams took mid to late round QBs... Hassleback was a 6th rounder, Aaron Brooks in the 4th, Brunell a 5th rounder, Ty Detmer 9th round...

but they dont all end up good, you are basically gambling with 1 pick a year hoping something comes of the players... he also took players like Kyle Washoltz and Jay Barker who obviously amounted to nothing...

Did you seriously just mention Aaron Brooks and suggest that its relevant that he was selecting in round 4 to the point that you can find talented QBs in later rounds? Is Aaron Brooks seriously what you want?

It gets out of hand when people start throwing Brooks out there. I mean I know the last thing you guys want is for the phins to draft anyone who is a major threat to you having to admit John Beck isnt what you hoped and spoke of, but its getting ridiculous. Just because you have heard of a player, dosent mean you should mention him in an argument to support drafting a QB that isnt Matt Ryan(which is basically everyones point. None of this has anything to do really with the team and whats best for the team. Its really all about people who have already put their hopes in Beck and openly praised and annointed him the future not wanting to draft Ryan because he is the biggest threat by far to that idea)

Aaron Brooks blows dude. Real bad. Real bad. Aaron Brooks is probably worse than Culpepper. Hell, now that I think of it, Aaron Brooks might be worse than Beck