With the 11th pick, the Jaguars select....Dolphins need to shake things up. | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

With the 11th pick, the Jaguars select....Dolphins need to shake things up.

Awsi Dooger said:
So you want to wait until Tannehill is 37 or 38 years old?

That's why I don't mind being criticized around here. Keep it up. Multiply by dozens. My logic will hold up fairly well in comparison.

Just a guess.

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Josh Allen would be the most intriguing draft pick in recent franchise history. I could support it, even though I'm not fully convinced on Allen. His arm is phenomenal. Big play potential from anywhere on the field. His touch is not ideal. He is athletic but not always aware in the pocket. His completion percentage is stalled in the 56-57% area.

It would be a gamble on greatness. It's about time this franchise tries that type of thing. Unlike Tannehill who moved up the draft boards late, there were many early mocks drafts last offseason that had Josh Allen going number one or two. But he suffered this season since his best skill position helpers from 2016 had graduated. Wyoming gradually had to alter its style during 2017, becoming more physical on both sides of the ball. It paid off with the bowl victory.
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Are you willing to 'happily adjust' Allen's failure this season 'cause he's big and has a big arm? 'Cause he FAILED.
 
SkapePhin said:
Bradford and RGIII had their careers significantly altered due to knee injuries. I think Tannehill will recover fine, but it may impact his mobility which is one of his assets.

As for the players you mentioned...

In their first 6 years:

Matt Ryan:
4 playoff appearances (including 1 NFC Championship Appearance), 1 playoff win

Philip Rivers:
4 playoff appearances (including 1 AFC Championship Appearance), 3 playoff wins *He sat his first 2 years, I started from the year he first started

Matthew Stafford:
2 playoff appearances (remember that he was drafted to a winless team)

Ryan Tannehill:
0 playoff appearances (although I give him a ton of credit for helping bring the Dolphins to the playoffs in 2016, unfortunately he couldn't finish the job due to injury)

I know you might want it to be the case, but Tannehill is not in the same company as Matt Ryan, Rivers or Stafford. I have hope he could further develop and be a late bloomer like Rich Gannon, but your argument is baseless when you compare Tannehill to those guys at the beginning of their careers.
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You keep making the same mistake of substituting a player’s name for the team’s name. If Tannehill had played with players like Tomlinson, Gates, Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones, Gonzalez, etc. your argument would make more sense.
 
Rams, Eagles and Texans locked up their franchise QB's the last 2 drafts.

We are sitting pretty with Ryan Tannehill still in his 20's and an entire league starving for QB's or about to be.

Brady is what he is, until he's not. He can plan on playing until he's 45 and if my main competition in the AFC east is a 42 and 43 year old Tom Brady and 2 more years of playing football tacked onto Rob Gronkowski's body I like my chances. Roethlisberger and Rivers could still have solid 2018 campaigns, or they could take a pounding.

Who's our competition in the AFC. Derek Carr and the Raiders? Mariota and the Titans? Are we concerned that Joe Flacco and Andy Dalton will field better teams in 2018, 2019 or 2020? Perhaps the Cleveland Browns finally hit a home run on a QB. Andrew Luck didn't scare me when he was healthy. He's a slightly better version of Chad Pennington. Luck can't afford to lose anything from his already weaker than average arm.

The Houston Texans have Watson. Ok.

Jacksonville has a long way to go but turned in an impressive season. There are a lot of but's though. Clearly they need some offensive talent starting with a QB.

Put this into prospective, the 49ers having started Jimmy Garappolo for 5 games have one of the most stable QB situations in the NFL right now (Long term).

As for Trubisky and Mahomes, I'll keep an open mind but the odds aren't in their favor.
 
SkapePhin said:
I know you might want it to be the case, but Tannehill is not in the same company as Matt Ryan, Rivers or Stafford. I have hope he could further develop and be a late bloomer like Rich Gannon, but your argument is baseless when you compare Tannehill to those guys at the beginning of their careers.
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Serious questions

If Stafford has a career record of 60-65 with zero playoff wins in 9 years and a career QB rating less than 2 points higher than Tannehill, based on your logic, why shouldn't Detroit be drafting a QB this year?

With a record over his first 5 years of 24-37, why didn't Detroit draft his replacement after year 5? Do you think they should have?

Should the Ravens, Bengals, Chargers, Giants, Bucs, Browns, Jets, Bills, Colts, Texans, Raiders, Broncos, Redskins, Lions, and Cardinals all be drafting insurance policies or new starters too?

I expect your answers to be consistent with your opinion on what the Dolphins should do.
 
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SkapePhin said:
I think I'd rather just draft Allen at that pick... He has a high ceiling and is only 21 years old. I like Tannehill, but he still hasn't led this team completely to a playoff game, even though he probably would have twice by now had he been healthy. But he is also 30 years old, coming off a knee injury.

I'd rather have a nice insurance policy than another late pick and some other picks that may go to waste. Develop Allen and if he overtakes Tannehill, you have some pretty good trade ammunition with Tannehill. And if Tannehill stays the starter and does some good things, you could develop Allen behind him and have him ready to take over in a few years ala Aaron Rodgers or Garropolo.
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so you want a kid that is only throwing 56% of his passes, in that offense against the teams he plays? with the 11th? no thanks. i only take him in late 2nd or third. we arent that desperate. take smith
 
I will say that at 11, is Allen is there, it has to be a consideration. This is more of a contingency plan and a potential future trade piece. If Tannehill does end up reinjuring his knee (not sure how likely) and you are actually going to look at a qb in 2019...you are screwed, because that QB draft looks very weak. With that in mind, I doubt Allen gets past Denver and anything else (assuming Rosen and Darnold go 1 and 2) is not worth a top 15 pick. I say you continue to build the team...add dynamic playmakers, many of whom have been identified on this forum and hope his knee holds up.
 
SkapePhin said:
There aren't many historical examples of teams having a 30 year old QB going into his 6th year with a team who has never crossed the threshold into *elite* status, never guided a team to a playoff or playoff win, having lost an entire year to a knee injury which was reaggravated from a prior knee injury. I like Tannehill, but let's not pretend he's a sure thing. Drafting a high ceiling QB at 11 wouldn't merely be insurance, it would be investment.
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I don't think *elite* means what you think it does.

There are exactly (ok, that's a bit strong, but since we're having fun here...) 2 Elite QBs -- unique and generational players -- playing: Brady and Rodgers.
There are a handful of *Franchise* QBs -- a couple of down games, but almost always good seasons and no appreciable limitations to their game (to name some, because now we're getting deep into into the range of opinion): Rothlisberger, Brees, Wilson
There are handful more of *very good*QBs -- whole seasons can run hot or cold and/or have an area of the game that is below starter level of play: Smith, Ryan, Flacco, Newton, Stafford, Rivers, Manning, Carr, Prescott, Tannehill.


We can argue about who is *very good* vs. *Franchise* and about my definitions.

I also think this is why some people think we should *just* draft someone better than Tannehill. They think there are lots of QBs who are, or would be, better, when in fact, it's a crapshoot unless you are drafting in the top 3.
 
TheWozz said:
But we could point to trade ups that busted alongside bypassing trade offers to stay pat and draft a bust when there were studs picked later. And each of the three scenarios can probably be demonstrated with most teams in the NFL. Mandating a strategy or the avoidance of a strategy because it went belly up one time does not make sense. It depends on who is on the board, what we can get and who we think will be there later.
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Show me the proof that Tannenbaum has succeeded in any of the three scenarios. Name the elite player he drafted.
 
Eesti said:
They could have also still traded down and drafted Rob Gronkowski & NaVorro Bowman. No one would be complaining about that right now. The trade is not the issue. It's the player selection, IMO.

We had #8 (actually 13) two years ago and got a so-called future HOF'er who is actually just an average player thus far. He has not lived up to #13 by any stretch.

What about 2013? we had the 3rd pick and ended up with Dion Jordan and we could have had Ziggy Ansah...or not traded and have DeAndre Hopkins and Kawaan Short right now.
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And the same front office that didn't think any of those players were very good and instead took Odrick and Misi are still here, only now they're led be an even less competent football person.
 
Stills&Landry said:
Are you willing to 'happily adjust' Allen's failure this season 'cause he's big and has a big arm? 'Cause he FAILED.
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You understand that with that defense and run game josh Allen could work from the advantage of just about all pa and primary read throws right?

We are gonna have to differ on if that kid can execute in that ideal environment for the qb in Jax
 
For the record I think Thill is good enough to win with. With that said, I don't think Gase will repeat last year. Hope Thill comes back ok without good insurance. I don't see Moore coming back. Will Gase sign a reasonably priced backup? I don't see anyone he likes. Only leaves a draft pick. I think we'll draft a QB for better or worse this year.
 
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