Worst LB in football?

[JakeemThe Dream]

To say we have the worst LBing corp in the league, is totally laughable yet annoying as well.

Kiko/Hewitt, Timmons/Hull, Misi/Mcmillan is a pretty damn talented corp.

I know a lot of people don't like Kiko but he's still a pretty good Lber.

Timmons, yes has never played pro football in a 4-3 scheme ,but he cannot be worse than Jenkins or Butler.

Misi, when healthy, is a pretty good lber. Hewitt looks like he can possibly make a giant leap but we'll see...

Mcmillan is an unknown but def more suited for the MLB spot IMO.

I highly doubt Gase and company didn't do their due diligence when re-signing/signing Kiko or Timmons.

it can't be worse than last year which could be the worst in the league lol

I think Phillips is a huge factor in helping the backers.

It's hard for me to say we have any positions that are "the worst in the league" except maybe guard.

Time will tell very soon!! Cannot wait!!

 

[JakeemThe Dream]

Tackles can be misleading. Kiko has a nose for the football that not many lbs possess. More specifically he has an ability to make game changing type plays on the football few possess. He also has above average instincts for the position.

What he gave us in 2016 considering he was surrounded by dumpster fire worthy lb play due to attrition primarily is worth a top 50 pick in any class.

That's exactly the argument I would make. You can tell quickly Kiko gets to the ball very instinctively.

While playing out of position (Kiko's not a MLB lol), Kiko did what he could with Butler and whoever else tried play lber.

I'm a Kiko fan so maybe I'm a bit biased. I'm very happy with our roster (at least from a pure talent standpoint).

I think he'll once again flourish at WLB and make game changing plays with the talent he has around him now.

I could be totally wrong but that's probably due to the horrific Lber play we as fans had to endure for years now lol

Kiko was def a bright spot IMO. Can he be better? Yes. Will he? That question will be answered very soon.

PHINS UP!!! 21 days to football!! Preseason or not, I'm super excited

 

[Travis34]

Oh, perhaps you're right. Maybe you're right, they should just stand by and allow ball carriers, receivers etc to waltz by and stroll to the endzone. If a LB isn't making tackles it's probably because he's being washed out of the play. The high tackle number suggests that the player is in position, made a good read, fought off blocks, and did what was necessary to bring the player down.

I don't think you get the point that is being made. It's not about just getting a tackle- but rather the quality of the play / what happened during it. What you are suggesting (being in position, reading the play, fighting off a block) would be a very nice thing and a good tackle.

However, there are plenty of players in the league with a lot of tackles who don't do those things well, and are getting tackles after a player has already gained 5 yards or a first down, or a catch even... totally different circumstances

 

[JakeemThe Dream]

For total tackles he ranks #121 according to NFL.com

Prorating is unrealistic and inaccurate. Not to mention you would have to do that for every single player and account for any games or time they missed as well.

Tackles are a tough stat to rate someone's performance on.

There's so many variables involved.

Then you get guys like Zach who racked up tackles with a lot being meaningful.

That's why it's so hard to judge. I know you're not a huge Kiko fan but you're a hardcore Fins fan.

You want to be wrong because you care more about the Dolphins than being right.

This site is filled with diehards and happens to be the best Dolphins site EVER!!!

Our Dolphins will make us proud. The "real fans" like all of us will finally get what we deserve.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

Oh, perhaps you're right. Maybe you're right, they should just stand by and allow ball carriers, receivers etc to waltz by and stroll to the endzone. If a LB isn't making tackles it's probably because he's being washed out of the play. The high tackle number suggests that the player is in position, made a good read, fought off blocks, and did what was necessary to bring the player down.

C'mon, seriously? Never said that. Nothing close to it. I claimed tackle numbers were overrated, not completely irrelevant to carry out.

Here's an example:

It's an RO (read option) power run from the pistol. Kaepernick is reading the Will (#46 Hewitt) who is in position so the hand off is imminent, and the Mike (#47 Alonso) has to attack the LOS reading his keys of the guards (playside gap step and backside pull) and the angle of the RB's shoulder pads which indicates a C gap power run.



Does Alonso make the tackle? Yes. But he does not shed the block successfully, is driven back 4 yards at the POA, and when he comes off he does not attack the LOS but rather shuffles his feet and allows the ballcarrier to come to him. So again the tackle is made (the statistic is registered) but it is not efficient because it surrenders an 11 yard gain and the first down.

 

[JakeemThe Dream]

C'mon, seriously? Never said that. Nothing close to it. I claimed tackle numbers were overrated, not completely irrelevant to carry out.

Here's an example:

It's an RO (read option) power run from the pistol. Kaepernick is reading the Will (#46 Hewitt) who is in position so the hand off is imminent, and the Mike (#47 Alonso) has to attack the LOS reading his keys of the guard (playside gap step and backside pull) and the angle of the RB's shoulder pads which indicates a C gap power run.



Does Alonso make the tackle? Yes. But he does not shed the block successfully, is driven back 4 yards at the POA, and when he comes off he does not attack the LOS but rather shuffles his feet and allows the ballcarrier to come to him. So again the tackle is made (the statistic is registered) but it is not efficient because it surrenders an 11 yard gain and the first down.

Wow!! That play says a lot about our individual players.

Phillips almost made a huge play behind the LOS. (too rare for my liking)

It's pretty clear Kiko is not a MLB. (Doesn't have that thumper mentality and looks a little scared to engage bigger lineman)

Suh must go through hell to be able to take on 2 guys every play. Unreal

Kiko or someone has to finish off that play. I can't foresee Timmons at least not sticking his head in there and engaging someone lol

I just hope Kiko is a better WLB than MLB.

 

[Snoop]

C'mon, seriously? Never said that. Nothing close to it. I claimed tackle numbers were overrated, not completely irrelevant to carry out.

Here's an example:

It's an RO (read option) power run from the pistol. Kaepernick is reading the Will (#46 Hewitt) who is in position so the hand off is imminent, and the Mike (#47 Alonso) has to attack the LOS reading his keys of the guards (playside gap step and backside pull) and the angle of the RB's shoulder pads which indicates a C gap power run.



Does Alonso make the tackle? Yes. But he does not shed the block successfully, is driven back 4 yards at the POA, and when he comes off he does not attack the LOS but rather shuffles his feet and allows the ballcarrier to come to him. So again the tackle is made (the statistic is registered) but it is not efficient because it surrenders an 11 yard gain and the first down.

How the hell did Phillips miss that tackle? He gotta be one of the softest 330 lbers I've ever seen. And Kiko has a ton of plays like that, can't believe we gave him the same amount of guaranteed money as Hightower.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

Wow!! That play says a lot about our individual players.

Phillips almost made a huge play behind the LOS. (too rare for my liking)

It's pretty clear Kiko is not a MLB. (Doesn't have that thumper mentality and looks a little scared to engage bigger lineman)

Suh must go through hell to be able to take on 2 guys every play. Unreal

Kiko or someone has to finish off that play. I can't foresee Timmons at least not sticking his head in there and engaging someone lol

I just hope Kiko is a better WLB than MLB.

Phillips does do an excellent job of reading the backside pulling Guard, slipping under the down block by the Center, and probably would have made the stop in the backfield if it wasn't for an extra shove in the back. But no flag no foul. It goes both ways on the line.

What do I mean by "it goes both ways"? Here's Suh with a little extra curricular maneuver as he drags the guard to the ground who is supposed to climb to the 2nd level and allows the Mike (#47 Alonso) to shoot the gap.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

How the hell did Phillips miss that tackle? He gotta be one of the softest 330 lbers I've ever seen. And Kiko has a ton of plays like that, can't believe we gave him the same amount of guaranteed money as Hightower.

That's a difficult hoop to run for just about any DT and the Center conveniently uses Phillips momentum to shove him off.

And yes, Alonso's film is chock full of instances of him losing at the POA and non-influential tackles.

 

[JakeemThe Dream]

How the hell did Phillips miss that tackle? He gotta be one of the softest 330 lbers I've ever seen. And Kiko has a ton of plays like that, can't believe we gave him the same amount of guaranteed money as Hightower.

Right!! Those are the plays that will make or break him. (So far he's been a bust)

Like you said, the dudes 6'6" 350 lbs!! Use that power my lord

I think Timmons will be totally opposite when it comes to engaging lineman.

I actually like Kiko but that was pretty embarrassing lol

With the Pats, I always wonder if certain players would excel on other teams.

I'm sure Hightower, like Jamie Collins, would be a really good player no matter where he plays.

Man I would have loved to grab Hightower.

Time will tell if we are as talented overall as I think. That play was very sad though lol

 

[Sons Of Shula]

I actually like Kiko but that was pretty embarrassing lol

There's a reason I'm so down on him and it's because this happens very frequently. I could fill a thread full of plays just like that but I'm sure the board isn't interested and would rather believe he is something he is not.

 

[JakeemThe Dream]

There's a reason I'm so down on him and it's because this happens very frequently. I could fill a thread full of plays just like that but I'm sure the board isn't interested and would rather believe he is something he is not.

Haha ya he's clearly not a MLB.

After watching that, even as a KIko fan, I totally understand your viewpoint.

Where do you think he excels? Do you think he's just not cut out for MLB?

 

[hoops]

Kikos instincts are made for mike lb. kicked outside he will still have gap responsibility but he won't have as much inside the tackle traffic to have to sift thru to the ball. I'm expecting him to be cleaner which is really what kiko needs...i.e. free runs to the ball.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

Kikos instincts are made for mike lb. kicked outside he will still have gap responsibility but he won't have as much inside the tackle traffic to have to sift thru to the ball. I'm expecting him to be cleaner which is really what kiko needs...i.e. free runs to the ball.

I agree with you that he has the instincts. That can be seen the 49ers RO clip above where he reads the play correctly presnap and steps playside despite no directional giveaway of the pistol (unlike gun RO's or zone runs where the typical indicator of the playside run is almost always opposite of where the RB aligns with the obvious exception of counters).

But he still won't be able to freely flow as a Will in our Over front.

IZ the Center will climb to the Mike but in Duo the Center climbs to the Will. Duo is a common run we saw vs Cleveland and Pittsburgh for just a few examples off the top of my head. And in every run situation vs our one gap Over front the Will has an assigned blocker. The only situation where a Will has more freedom is in an Under front where a DL(s) has a 2 gap responsibility to allow it.

 

[hoops]

The worst think kiko did on that first gif was not attack the los post snap reading his keys instead he flowed laterally almost like he wanted to take away both sides of the post snap guard gaps. Which allowed for more north south day light for the back to run thru once he eluded Jordan Phillips less than ideal angle to work with. Nothing Phillips did wrong there and it flashes his gifts at 335 lbs even. Definite delay in kikos post snap play there but he's also 5 yards off the ball pre snap. Although im aware that he's that far off so he can fill north and south with momentum. Still he has to read the keys and fill north south there thud the guard and let his teammates clean up.

If you want someone more fit for that role that's Raekwon McMillan all the way.

This teams definitely more prepared for that kind of gimmick downhill offense in 2017 should teams want to employ it. However that kinda 3 guys in the backfield etc stuff is found mostly by teams that don't have qbs.

The second gif the play is blown up by suh who hulk smashed the center which is what suh does to cats and Kiko filled perfectly.