WTF Jason Cole? (Ireland related)

[Cleetus]

This is exactly the kind of thing I am talking about. Any thing good, is the decision of someone else, and anything bad is Ireland. It was too funny when the team went on the early season winning streak how everyone said "Oh, Philbin is a god" but no one said Ireland had anything to do with it, then when things start going bad its, "Ireland is the debil", and Philbin has nothing to do with it.

I am pretty sure you could find posters on here that are convinced Ireland is the cause of global warming, and was the man on the grassy knoll.

You know I get just as bemused by the fans who give Ireland credit for the few bright spots on his resume and yet say that all he has done wrong is due to Parcells and lately and to a lesser extent Philbin. Therefore I just roll up the last 4 years into a ball and say it is all on ireland, he is the GM and as the boss of player personnel the buck stops there good and bad.

 

[Valandui]

If this was any other year, the continuity arguement might fly. This is a year that can screw us up for the next decade. Way too much is at stake this season.

 

[KTOWNFINFAN]

If this was any other year, the continuity arguement might fly. This is a year that can screw us up for the next decade. Way too much is at stake this season.

So your answer is to bring in a first year guy, who has no background of the franchise?? Or do you want someone under Ireland to take the position?? I would have had no problem with Jeff being replaced last year, but see no way you can bring in someone new this year with, as you say, so much riding on this draft.

 

[Valandui]

So your answer is to bring in a first year guy, who has no background of the franchise?? Or do you want someone under Ireland to take the position?? I would have had no problem with Jeff being replaced last year, but see no way you can bring in someone new this year with, as you say, so much riding on this draft.

So we should stick with someone we know will screw it up because someone new might screw it up? The old "stick with the evil you know" arguement?

 

[phintim]

You know I get just as bemused by the fans who give Ireland credit for the few bright spots on his resume and yet say that all he has done wrong is due to Parcells and lately and to a lesser extent Philbin. Therefore I just roll up the last 4 years into a ball and say it is all on ireland, he is the GM and as the boss of player personnel the buck stops there good and bad.

You are correct which means I was ready to see him fired after he hired Philbin, drafted RT and traded VD early in the season. Well the first 2 moves turned out so far better than expected and while still not sold on VD he is on IR just like last year so that helps a bit. So if the phins pick one of those can't miss GM's then I can go along but Ireland has earned a year in my book

 

[KTOWNFINFAN]

You know I get just as bemused by the fans who give Ireland credit for the few bright spots on his resume and yet say that all he has done wrong is due to Parcells and lately and to a lesser extent Philbin. Therefore I just roll up the last 4 years into a ball and say it is all on ireland, he is the GM and as the boss of player personnel the buck stops there good and bad.

Fair point, I am sure there are those on here that do some of that, but I really don't see them. Pretty much everyone in this thread that is in favor of keeping Jeff is either on the fence about him, or only believe he is slightly above average with lots of room to improve. I don't see ANYone saying he doesn't make mistakes or have weak areas of his performance. I will be the first to say he hasn't hit a lot of homeruns in FAs and has failed to hit ANY homeruns at the skill positions in the draft. But then again I would have said last year that he hadn't hit a homerun at QB in the draft either. Not even sure I can say he hit a homerun at QB yet, time will tell. My point it is takes time, and GMs are people too, they grow into the job just like players. Some need a little time, some need better scouts, but he has finally gotten us a QB that everyone said had to happen. He has created lots of cap space, multiple early draft picks, the 2nd youngest roster and a solid roster minus some big play super stars. He needs to bring em in this offseason. But last year he needed to find a QB and that is what he did. Give him this year to see if he completes the puzzle.

 

[dlockz]

Fair point, I am sure there are those on here that do some of that, but I really don't see them. Pretty much everyone in this thread that is in favor of keeping Jeff is either on the fence about him, or only believe he is slightly above average with lots of room to improve. I don't see ANYone saying he doesn't make mistakes or have weak areas of his performance. I will be the first to say he hasn't hit a lot of homeruns in FAs and has failed to hit ANY homeruns at the skill positions in the draft. But then again I would have said last year that he hadn't hit a homerun at QB in the draft either. Not even sure I can say he hit a homerun at QB yet, time will tell. My point it is takes time, and GMs are people too, they grow into the job just like players. Some need a little time, some need better scouts, but he has finally gotten us a QB that everyone said had to happen. He has created lots of cap space, multiple early draft picks, the 2nd youngest roster and a solid roster minus some big play super stars. He needs to bring em in this offseason. But last year he needed to find a QB and that is what he did. Give him this year to see if he completes the puzzle.

I credit Sherman as the man that convinced us to take Tannehill, I mean he was his damn coach in college and Im sure he knew him better than any guy in the NFl

 

[KTOWNFINFAN]

So we should stick with someone we know will screw it up because someone new might screw it up? The old "stick with the evil you know" arguement?

LOL, ok I get it, you don't like him. To respond to your statement I think it is more like "we should stick with what we have because there is no one on the planet that has the possibility to not screwing it up". There has never been an offseason in the history of the NFL where a GM didn't screw something up. I happen to be of the belief that Ireland has a better chance of understanding where we are, and will make more GOOD decisions than someone new who hasn't been around the franchise. I know you don't agree, so I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Is it possible that a new GM could come in and have a good offseason?? Absolutely, it will be hard for any GM to mess up this offseason. But I also will say with 100% certainty that a new GM will make decisions that most will disagree with.

 

[dlockz]

After the way Ireland handled our offseason esp free agency I truly wish the owner would get some fresh eyes on our team but its Ross;s MO to stick too long with guys

 

[PJack]

So your answer is to bring in a first year guy, who has no background of the franchise?? Or do you want someone under Ireland to take the position?? I would have had no problem with Jeff being replaced last year, but see no way you can bring in someone new this year with, as you say, so much riding on this draft.

I don't think you need a background in the franchise if a changes is made right after seasons end. While you certainly can't take a guy off the street, the assumption is you replace him with a guy that knows the type of player that fits our systems, has scouting experience, and is savvy/experienced in free agency. I'd certainly want someone that would want to work with Philbin. Definitely not an easy task to find a good GM, as they can't be found in multiples or everyone would be making great decisions. However, IMO, Ireland has more flaws than positives so there are multiple guys out there that could produce better than 7-9, 7-9, 6-10, 7-9. Russ Ball, Eric DeCastro, Tom Gamble, Will Lewis, Mark Ross....just a handful of top candidates that are worth discussion and I'm sure I'm leaving many talented guys off that list.

 

[KTOWNFINFAN]

I credit Sherman as the man that convinced us to take Tannehill, I mean he was his damn coach in college and Im sure he knew him better than any guy in the NFl

I agree, I think Sherman gave a lot of insight to Ireland that he wouldn't have had any other way. Same goes for Flynn and Philbin, I think that was why we DIDN'T offer him a big contract. That is what GMs do, that take advice from those around them. They gather the info and then make the best decision. It was also well documented that Ireland liked Tannehill long before Sherman came on board. So it is also possible that part of the reason Sherman is even here could be because of Tannehill, we may never know.

But that is kinda beside the point. What if we had the information that Philbin, Sherman, or another coach or even the head scout were really high on Egnew, does it really matter?? I mean Ireland had to sign off on it right?? The kid looks horrible with a terrible attitude and the kind of player that I will be surprised if he ever sees the field, but the final decision was Irelands, so he is the one that is going to get the blame. The buck stops with him. I would certainly HOPE he took the time to get advice from Sherman on RT. If not that would make him a TERRIBLE GM.

With the way things played out last year, I really don't see any way we were not taking a QB in the first. Whether it was RT, Weeden or even Cousins, we were taking a QB. In my heart of hearts I will believe RT was going to be a fin whether Sherman was here or not. I guess you will believe otherwise, and that is your option.

 

[dlockz]

I agree, I think Sherman gave a lot of insight to Ireland that he wouldn't have had any other way. Same goes for Flynn and Philbin, I think that was why we DIDN'T offer him a big contract. That is what GMs do, that take advice from those around them. They gather the info and then make the best decision. It was also well documented that Ireland liked Tannehill long before Sherman came on board. So it is also possible that part of the reason Sherman is even here could be because of Tannehill, we may never know.

But that is kinda beside the point. What if we had the information that Philbin, Sherman, or another coach or even the head scout were really high on Egnew, does it really matter?? I mean Ireland had to sign off on it right?? The kid looks horrible with a terrible attitude and the kind of player that I will be surprised if he ever sees the field, but the final decision was Irelands, so he is the one that is going to get the blame. The buck stops with him. I would certainly HOPE he took the time to get advice from Sherman on RT. If not that would make him a TERRIBLE GM.

With the way things played out last year, I really don't see any way we were not taking a QB in the first. Whether it was RT, Weeden or even Cousins, we were taking a QB. In my heart of hearts I will believe RT was going to be a fin whether Sherman was here or not. I guess you will believe otherwise, and that is your option.

I personally dont think we take Tannehill that high if Sherman is not here. ON egnew being high on a player is one thing but having actual insight like Sherman did on Tannehill is quite different

 

[Valandui]

LOL, ok I get it, you don't like him. To respond to your statement I think it is more like "we should stick with what we have because there is no one on the planet that has the possibility to not screwing it up". There has never been an offseason in the history of the NFL where a GM didn't screw something up. I happen to be of the belief that Ireland has a better chance of understanding where we are, and will make more GOOD decisions than someone new who hasn't been around the franchise. I know you don't agree, so I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Is it possible that a new GM could come in and have a good offseason?? Absolutely, it will be hard for any GM to mess up this offseason. But I also will say with 100% certainty that a new GM will make decisions that most will disagree with.

But he most likely won't make more good decisions than bad ones. Not a single FA he signed this offseason is currently on the roster. He created a massive hole that he didn't even try to fill until the sitxth round (who subsequently got cut before the season started) and filled one of the pre-existing ones. Our OL is still up and down despite burning a stupid amount of high picks and FA singings on it. Yes, Pouncey is a great player. Unfortunately, if he hadn't traded Satele and struck out on Jake Grove, we wouldn't have to have made him the highest drafter center in history. We traded down in 09 and took Jared Odrick, which was the only position that we had too many good players at, instead of Earl Thomas. Guess what, now Thomas is a great player and we still need a FS while Odrick is out there playing out of position. Also, Marc Colombo. I really can't stress that enough. But this is the guy who deserves to be making the decisions here.

 

[KTOWNFINFAN]

I don't think you need a background in the franchise if a changes is made right after seasons end. While you certainly can't take a guy off the street, the assumption is you replace him with a guy that knows the type of player that fits our systems, has scouting experience, and is savvy/experienced in free agency. I'd certainly want someone that would want to work with Philbin. Definitely not an easy task to find a good GM, as they can't be found in multiples or everyone would be making great decisions. However, IMO, Ireland has more flaws than positives so there are multiple guys out there that could produce better than 7-9, 7-9, 6-10, 7-9. Russ Ball, Eric DeCastro, Tom Gamble, Will Lewis, Mark Ross....just a handful of top candidates that are worth discussion and I'm sure I'm leaving many talented guys off that list.

Very well said, and I agree there are some very solid names on your list. If one of those came on board I would not be upset. However I disagree that changing GMs is easily that seamless. It takes time. You have to get aquainted with the scouting department. You have to know which scout you trust the most, and which over values his players. You have to slowly bring in your guys, and learn to work with the coaches, owner and players you already have in place. To bring someone in right after the season and have from the end of Jan to middle of April to get ready for the draft and FA is a very short period of time. I really don't see how a GM could get up to speed in that amount of time. JMO

 

[phintim]

I credit Sherman as the man that convinced us to take Tannehill, I mean he was his damn coach in college and Im sure he knew him better than any guy in the NFl

See when the fans that make posts like these it bemuses me. In one instance they credit Ireland for every move that was made in the past and want to gloss over the fact that the guy who hired Ireland Parcells really had no responsibility during Parcells tenure here because we'll Ireland was the GM and signed off on those moves. Now suddenly when things go right with Philbin and drafting RT they suddenly want to take away the responsibility that they gave to Ireland under Parcells and give it to the guys that Ireland was in charge of hiring Philbin and Sherman or give it to Ross.

The facts are Ireland has been the GM all 5 years, was hired and worked under Parcells who also hired Tony Sporano, Ireland was and is the GM who was involved in the process of hiring Philbin and Sherman. Those are the facts everything else is just hearsay or rumors. A little human logic IMO would compute that as Ireland as a rookie GM hired by Parcells got more confidence would make more of his own decisions over time not vice versa as I keep reading here all the time. The next logical question is has his decision making appear to have improved and I believe so.