WVDolphan's "Get Real" Today's subject, Dan Henning.

[MD]

We don't run the WC we have been using a direct snap which is more or less lining Ronnie up in the "I". It doesn't work and shouldn't be utilized because the Vikings saw it, stacked the box and din't have much trouble stopping it. The direct snap, like the rest of our offense, is very predictable moreso this year then the 2 previous years with Henning calling plays. I have no problem with being a ball control offense, but I do have a problem when you fail to pass on 1st down to keep the defense off balance.

I thought the play calling was better against the Vikings but the damn direct snap is pitiful. If they want Ronnie to take snaps, get back in the WC where he has several options and keeps the defense guessing.

 

[hoops]

so now the direct snap to ronnie isn't a form of the wildcat...thats news to me

whatever name you guys want to give it it sucks...for me its still the figuredoutdrivekillinghasbeencat

 

[3rdandinches]

Well, your agenda is obviously to hate on me.

But, let me say this. Yea, I was one of those who feels like in todays NFL the way to go is to get an elite QB who can sling it, have a running game that can be effective enough to set up play action passes and also provide just enough balance to not get your QB killed. Then on defense, if you can have that kind of offense you really dont even have to be dominant so long as you have a small group of players who can make game changing plays(sacks, fumbles, ints, and defensive scores as a result). I simply belief that is the best formula.

Obviously, our FO has a completely different idea. They want to run it and not throw INTs while having a dominant defense. My problem is that some of the offenses are so explosive in the league today, and with the rules more or less set up for the offense to have an advantage, its almost impossible to have a defense like that of the Ravens the year they won it all. It just seems really difficult to do. The league is also filled with QBs who even if you are running it well and controlling the game, if you dont put a big enough lead on them, they will ****ing burn your *** in the end. Thats all.

So while I disagree with the FO philosophy, it dosent mean I dislike them because of it. In fact, I can get with the idea of beating the **** out of the defense and running it 45 times a game. Im just not sure its possible to have the defense you need to have to make that successful to the point of winning enough games to get homefield in the playoffs.

Again, there is more than one way to skin a cat. If this FO's blueprint works out, then great. Im certainly hoping it does. And as it stands so far this season, they may just be on to something. Its not impossible that their methods could get us what we all desire, a world championship.

However, if they go 7-9 again, I can promise you I will be pissed. Just like I was that we went 7-9 last year. Whats wrong with that? Shouldnt we as fans be upset when we fail? 7-9 is not acceptable to me.

I don't hate on you and I have no agenda. Your hating on the FO for something you say doesn't work in today's NFL yet we're 2-0. Your complaining about something that hasn't even happened yet let alone may not even happen, that just seems silly to me. It's like you can't wait to see us fail so you can pound your chest that you were right.

 

[WVDolphan]

I don't hate on you and I have no agenda. Your hating on the FO for something you say doesn't work in today's NFL yet we're 2-0. Your complaining about something that hasn't even happened yet let alone may not even happen, that just seems silly to me. It's like you can't wait to see us fail so you can pound your chest that you were right.

I clearly stated that it can indeed work and has so far this season. I clearly stated there is more than one way to skin a cat. I clearly stated that you can be successful doing things different ways.

Im the one telling people to stop bashing Henning. And like I pointed out, if youre bashing Henning, youre basically disagreeing with the fundamental principals of the FO's philosophy and their choices of personel to fit that style.

 

[MD]

so now the direct snap to ronnie isn't a form of the wildcat...thats news to me

whatever name you guys want to give it it sucks...for me its still the figuredoutdrivekillinghasbeencat

The original WC Jake Long was moved to the right side of the line and Chad P was split wide. It's a model of the Single Wing formation used in the early days of football. Now they simply remove Henne from the offense and snap the ball to Ronnie.

 

[moonman]

Yeah part of the WC was disguising the package by having Henne still in there.

 

[hoops]

well then stop with that single wing t crap also...what do we run 3 plays out of it...2 of which are ronnie take the direct snap and then pick a hole inside or off tackle to get into or hand the ball to ricky on the end around just after the snap...

and b/t ricky almost fumbled that crap on the handoff exchange he took from ronnie on the end around i wanna say on the first scoring series...

how hard do you guys think it is to defend pretty much 3 plays with no threat to pass the ball...i guess my point is if you try it and it doesn't work don't go to it repeatedly on 2nd down to get shut down and put henne in constant 3rd and longs and especially not this week...against the jets 3rd and long they dial up those blitz packages that give everyone major fits

give henne more chance on 1st and 2nd down to make a play...

 

[Jersey DolFan]

well then stop with that single wing t crap also...what do we run 3 plays out of it...2 of which are ronnie take the direct snap and then pick a hole inside or off tackle to get into or hand the ball to ricky on the end around just after the snap...

and b/t ricky almost fumbled that crap on the handoff exchange he took from ricky on the end around i wanna say on the first scoring series...


how hard do you guys think it is to defend pretty much 3 plays with no threat to pass the ball...i guess my point is if you try it and it doesn't work don't go to it repeatedly on 2nd down to get shut down and put henne in constant 3rd and longs and especially not this week...against the jets 3rd and long they dial up those blitz packages that give everyone major fits

give henne more chance on 1st and 2nd down to make a play...

you're missing the difference between these formations and also some other things...

the "wildcat" or the "direct snap" (not sure which it was) got us into TD range and beat the crap out of the vikings on the first drive. We have had continued success with it.

With the direct snap, they are not using the same formation and mis-direction type stuff...they simply like Ronnie to get an extra second to survey for the right hole etc. ...

what i agree with you on is that when we are driving on the strength of power I-formation running and short slants etc. and we get to the 50 yard line then Henning calls 2 direct snap plays that go nowhere...that DESTROYS momentum.

i bascially agree with most of what WV has said, however i dont think the issue some ppl have is as much with Hennings actual plays, but with the time in which they come. I want Henning to start off with a wildcat or direct snap play when we are in good field position, i want him to throw a screen or look for fasano after a 10 yard penalty on first down, and most of all...i want him to try to score more poitns and not be content with being up by 1 TD against very capable teams.

i basically agree witl the post - i think Henne is going to be a "game manager" but a game manager that can air it out quite well 4-7 games a season as needed. I just dont like the nail biting - i think we should put teams away when we have the edge early. Hopefully, since this FO is so big on division games (as they should be) they have been simply not showing much of the passing game, and we will see it over the next 2 weeks. We are going to need it..

 

[PlexGod]

Great post, but my big issue with Henning is the fact that he just gets too conservative with his play calling the second we have a 3 point lead. If you look at some of the good teams in the nfl, they try to put up points every time their offense gets the ball. Look at the colts on sunday night. They were up by 3+ TD's in the fourth and still threw the ball and scored even more. Im not say henne is manning by any stretch of the imagination but still. Henning doesnt have that killer mentality that some of the games best OC's have and thats step on the neck of your opponent when hes down and keep him there. We all know this soft conservative crappy play calling is going to bit us in the butt sooner or later and may even cost us a shot at the playoff. I think henne can be an effective leader and should be given the chance to pass the ball 20 something times a game and be a factor. If not lets trade Marshall for a stud RB and maybe ronnie for an old Hines Ward (one of the best blocking WR in the game) and just run it every play. In this day and age you have to pass the ball well if you want to win and make it into the playoffs. Henning really seems like the game has passed him by. For us to really stand a chance this year and in the future we have to throw the ball and throw it well. If not fellas, be prepared for another 25+ years of not making it to the superbowl. We will stay a mediocre team for a long time.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

I feel like we just got too conservative at points and I was thinking the 14 points just weren't going to cut it.

That was my concern. I'm not sure Sparano understands the math or probability in a lot of these situations when he's trying to milk a lead.

A 14-0 advantage, for example, is not as valuable as 28-14. That may sound ridiculous but it holds up. A team with 14 points has already scored close to its projection. Scoring 14 points falls well within the normal distribution for NFL output. A team with zero points is a severe outlier, to the point you can assert favoritism to eventually dent the scoreboard and find the friendly bell curve. I'll never forget the time a sharp guy explained it to me, during my first year in Las Vegas. I had a 17-0 lead while giving 11 points, late 3rd quarter. The underdog looked hopelessly inept, a pathetic young QB. "Unless you score again, you'll probably lose the bet." I thought he was nuts until he specifically detailed how few NFL teams are held without a TD for an entire game, let alone shut out. Sure enough, just as I was numbing to his words the terrible QB hit three quick throws and I lost the bet by a point. Eventually I looked it up via Excel and he was correct. There are actually many great halftime angles, taking advantage of a team that was shut out in the first half.

We nursed a 13-3 lead and 14-0 edge. It's fantastic they held up but Buffalo scoring another 7 and Minnesota finding 10 to end those games was almost inevitable, a regression to the mean. I suggest we don't try it too often. Get to low 20s if we can, the median NFL output.

 

[thegreathoo]

I did not read this looooooooong post. But let me sum up why I hate Henning with passion: 7 offensive points per game with Marshall, Fasano, Ronnie, Ricky, Bess, Hartline, Long, Carey, Penny.

His offense is **** and he is ****.

/thread

 

[bastid]

I agree with your post, except for the Carlin

I also think our gameplan was to limit Henne. Think about it. You're at a place that no one has won there in a year. They were 9-0 at home last year, you come in pop them in the mouth and leave them with a sour taste. I love it. Why put the ball in a young and I hate to say it but inexperienced QB when you have one of the best rushing attacks in football? And thats not a knock on Henne. Henne did what was asked of him to do. Im sure there are going to be games this year maybe even the Jets game since we're at home when they possibly open the offense up a little bit in the passing game. We gashed that Vikings defense in the first half and barely got by with just barely enough in the 2nd to hang on to a W. If it wasn't for those 2 fumbles, the score could have been different. Ball security was the issue in this game. BOTH backs fumbled it at crucial points. It was an ugly win, but a win is a win.. Ill take it.

 

[Jehuty13]

Henning is unwilling or unable to adapt, that's probably the reason I don't care for him that much. I get that he's conservative, I get that he's got 2 good running backs to ground&pound with, but sometimes we need to put the dagger in teams while we have the chance. 14-10 makes it seem like the vikes stood a chance, but in reality our offense just didn't want to take a chance and trust our receivers. Not once did we try for the dagger that would have ruined them. By playing conservative the entire game we kept the vikes in it. That's the kind of team where you aim for the jugular. With the weapons they have, I praise our defense for bailing us out.

Another thing about playing conservative, it puts no sense of desperation into the other team. The opposition becomes predictable when they are in a hole. We allowed them to use AP the entire game because they weren't "desperate" for any points. You want to take a running back out of a game completely? Have a 17 point lead by the 4th quarter. Once we're at that point, then I don't mind the ground and pound.

It just infuriates me that favre was having a horrible game and we didn't even try to take advantage of it. We let it come down to the wire and it was completely unnecessary.

 

[Fin Thirteen]

I'm not so sure that the coaches are out of touch or old fashioned. I'm not sure that they don't get it. I'm not so sure that a pass-first offence is on their radar at all - Marshall or no Marshall.

I think this FO is building a huge powerful team that moves the chains slowly but steadily and controls the ball and the clock. I think the "no errors", conservative playing style is about saying to the opposition "we don't care if you know what our next play is, we're doing it anyway".

I genuinely believe that (on the offensive side of the ball) the coaches have ZERO interest in being unpredictable and 100% interest in being effective. Your definition of effective might be to air the ball occasionally and stretch the defence out, or to avoid repetitive playcalls that don't give us faster momentum. I don't think htat's the definition the coaches have. So long as Henne can hit his receivers/TEs when he has to (red zone or when we're chasing the game) the coaches will be happier with 5 four-yard gains than 1 twenty-yard gain. Winds down the clock, tires out the defence, lowers the risk of turnovers, plays to our personnel strengths.

Whether it's pretty or whether it's the only way to do it with the team we have is very debatable. But it's a moot point as long as these guys are in charge and we're winning games.

 

[X-Pacolypse]

I'll say this, if Miami is going to continue with the grind it out offense, then they need a RB who can break some long runs for a TD. Ronnie has no breakaway speed at all, and Ricky can do it, but certainly nowhere near as well as he could in his prime.