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Alabama's Derrick Henry

My point was never intended to be that Auburn had a great run defense. I think you know that. The point was that Henry carried the ball 14 straight times to end the game against their stacked front. Auburn has a lot of talent in their front 7, and they played their best game of the season against Alabama. They always do. The game was put on Henry's shoulders. Alabama had to keep possession of the football and keep Auburn's offense off the field. The score was 22-13 with 5 minutes left.....at Auburn. It paints a more complete picture to Buddy's comment regarding YPC.

Arkansas' run defense is outstanding. They play the run just about as well as any team in the country other than Alabama. Arkansas only allowed one running back to gain 100 yards all season, and that was Peyton Barber when they played Auburn. It took him 37 carries to do it.

My point wasn't that every SEC defense was great this year. Either my point is completely lost on you, or you're intentionally grasping at things that you know I'm not trying to say or emphasize. Again, my point was to Buddy, that Henry faced better run defenses than Dalvin Cook, and had nearly 130 more carries against better defenses. Which explains the gap in YPC.

I'm not pumping up Henry to be something he's not. It is what it is. He's got the hardware. I'm simply stating the facts, and shedding a little light on all the blatant bias that already existed in this thread for Ezekiel Elliott, Dalvin Cook, Leonard Fournette, and every other RB in the country that's apparently so much better than Derrick Henry.

Whether I like Henry or not is irrelevant. I'm not one to prop up players that I don't believe in just because they play for the Crimson Tide. Anybody that's paid any attention to my posts for years is aware of that. Bias and/or favoritism isn't part of my formula for evaluating talent and never has been. I evaluate Alabama players the same way I do players anywhere else.

I get it you don't like Henry, I hear you. It don't matter to me. It's your opinion. I'm just trying to point you in the right direction regarding how this RB class stacks up.

I never said I didn't like Henry. I just said at the NFL level I would prefer Fournette, Cook (yes I know these 2 aren't draft eligible) and Elliot to a certain extent (I agree that the coaches under the bus thing is disturbing). Hey, if Henry is there in the 2nd round and Miami drafts him I wouldn't be mad about that pick. If they were to take him in the top 10? I'd laugh at them. You're percieving some slight against Henry that's not there (at least from me anyway). I don't have any bias against him. I just think he has some question marks. Fournette and Cook look more dynamic to my eyes. But hey, thanks for pointing me in the right direction, or whatever.
 
Meh, high volume guy that runs too high. He runs over college LBers but won't run over NFL level LBers. He's going to enter the league with too much mileage already on those legs. He doesn't wow me like Fournette and Cook do. Those 2 players are FIRE.

Cook, I believe it was against florida, took over the game second half. It was the first time I saw him play and like you said he was FIRE. The lateral movement and stop and start speed was amazing.
 
Henry would be a great fit for the Cowboys, a bell cow back behind that great OL. The only question is whether or not they're sold on McFadden, but even with him Henry would provide a terrific one two punch. Assuming that Romo and Bryant are back next year at full strength Henry could make that offense something else.
 
Depends on happens with Lamar Miller. I like Miller a lot and definitely want to keep him. But with,all the talented running backs coming out of the draft the next couple of years, I wouldn't break the bank for the guy. Havent watched much of Henry but I'm going to check him out right now. If it's true that he runs a 4.5 forty at that size, that's a lethal combination of power and speed. Does anybody know where he's being projected?
 
RB is such a hard position to project going to the next level. How much of their success is the scheme, how much is the talent around them, how much is it that they were just more physically talented than the kids they went up against.

I think Henry will be fine in the pros. I think Christian McCaffery should have won the Heisman over Henry, but I think that is more of a compliment to McCaffery than a slight to Henry. I think 9 times out of 10 any back that has a season Henry had is the slam dunk Heisman winner... and McCaffery had arguably a better overall season.
 
Depends on happens with Lamar Miller. I like Miller a lot and definitely want to keep him. But with,all the talented running backs coming out of the draft the next couple of years, I wouldn't break the bank for the guy. Havent watched much of Henry but I'm going to check him out right now. If it's true that he runs a 4.5 forty at that size, that's a lethal combination of power and speed. Does anybody know where he's being projected?

Yeah, there's a lot of talent, but none of those guys have proven anything at the NFL level. We know that we have a 1,000 yard back with big play capability in Miller. That's something that you try to hang onto when you get.
 
RB is such a hard position to project going to the next level. How much of their success is the scheme, how much is the talent around them, how much is it that they were just more physically talented than the kids they went up against.

I think Henry will be fine in the pros. I think Christian McCaffery should have won the Heisman over Henry, but I think that is more of a compliment to McCaffery than a slight to Henry. I think 9 times out of 10 any back that has a season Henry had is the slam dunk Heisman winner... and McCaffery had arguably a better overall season.


McCaffrey is a fine player, and he may win it next year. He'll have a shot if he stays healthy. But he certainly didn't deserve the Heisman Trophy this year. He's not even close to Derrick Henry, and it's a little bit unfair to him to even be compared to Derrick Henry. They're two completely different players.

McCaffrey faced on average, the 76th ranked rushing defense in the country. And still had 6 games where he didn't even score a single touchdown. You can't win a Heisman Trophy and have 6 games where you don't score. That's half the season. The rushing defenses McCaffrey faced were ranked 14th, 100th, 45th, 116th, 89th, 88th, 29th, 101st, 99th, 75th, 102nd, and 65th.

He did absolutely nothing against the two best teams Stanford faced in Northwestern and Notre Dame. He was completely shut down in both games.

Furthermore, his All-Purpose yards are somewhat empty and inflated due to returning kickoffs. Returning a bunch of the kickoffs to the 20 or 21 yard line isn't Heisman worthy. It's just accumulating empty All-Purpose yards.

There's a reason why McCaffrey came away empty handed in terms of any awards this year, and why Derrick Henry ran away with the Maxwell Award, Walter Camp Award, Doak Walker Award, and Heisman Trophy. Henry dominated in the biggest games.

To be The Man, you have the beat The Man. When Derrick Henry bested Leonard Fournette....he beat The Man.
 
It's sad to be so biased in terms of the home town guy that you use variables that aren't relevant. Alabama allowed 2.38 yards per rush, #1 in the country. Stanford allowed 4.60. So naturally Derrick Henry has a severe advantage against Leonard Fournette or anyone else in a head to head matchup. If Stanford had faced Alabama then Henry has huge favoritism based on the caliber of defense, not based on how he compares to Henry.

All of your paragraphs were essentially empty.

Unfortunately the voters were similarly gullible and swayed, along with the overwhelming regional bias. Reverse the home states of those two players and not only does McCaffrey win the Heisman he does so in far more lopsided fashion than Henry did.

One week after facing Alabama, LSU gave up 299 yards on the ground to Arkansas in 40 carries. That was a home game. A week later they surrendered nearly 5 yards per rush to Mississippi. That's how stalwart their rush defense was late in the season. It's the third consecutive season they have had weak rush defense, slightly on either side of 4 yards per carry, which is not going to cut it in the SEC and a major reason why Les Miles was in trouble.

Both are great players. Not similar in style. The Alabama fan doesn't like it that some analysts have taken to knock Derrick Henry, calling him overrated. Understandable. You lose a ton in translation when you try to diminish Christian McCaffrey based on what games he scored touchdowns in, and similar babble. It read like some of the desperate summaries of Russell Wilson around here.

I found it particularly amusing that McCaffrey's skill as a kickoff returner is somehow propped as negative. I just watched the tape of the Big Game against Cal, in which McCaffrey busted open a tight game with a long touchdown return just before halftime. Maybe he shouldn't have done that.

Of course, Alabama fans can be somewhat forgiven for not appreciating kickoff returns as an actual skill. That team is 109th in the nation in kickoff return average this season, averaging a laughable sub-19 yards per return, a full 10 yards below McCaffrey's average.
 
It's sad to be so biased in terms of the home town guy that you use variables that aren't relevant. Alabama allowed 2.38 yards per rush, #1 in the country. Stanford allowed 4.60. So naturally Derrick Henry has a severe advantage against Leonard Fournette or anyone else in a head to head matchup. If Stanford had faced Alabama then Henry has huge favoritism based on the caliber of defense, not based on how he compares to Henry.

All of your paragraphs were essentially empty.

Unfortunately the voters were similarly gullible and swayed, along with the overwhelming regional bias. Reverse the home states of those two players and not only does McCaffrey win the Heisman he does so in far more lopsided fashion than Henry did.

One week after facing Alabama, LSU gave up 299 yards on the ground to Arkansas in 40 carries. That was a home game. A week later they surrendered nearly 5 yards per rush to Mississippi. That's how stalwart their rush defense was late in the season. It's the third consecutive season they have had weak rush defense, slightly on either side of 4 yards per carry, which is not going to cut it in the SEC and a major reason why Les Miles was in trouble.

Both are great players. Not similar in style. The Alabama fan doesn't like it that some analysts have taken to knock Derrick Henry, calling him overrated. Understandable. You lose a ton in translation when you try to diminish Christian McCaffrey based on what games he scored touchdowns in, and similar babble. It read like some of the desperate summaries of Russell Wilson around here.

I found it particularly amusing that McCaffrey's skill as a kickoff returner is somehow propped as negative. I just watched the tape of the Big Game against Cal, in which McCaffrey busted open a tight game with a long touchdown return just before halftime. Maybe he shouldn't have done that.

Of course, Alabama fans can be somewhat forgiven for not appreciating kickoff returns as an actual skill. That team is 109th in the nation in kickoff return average this season, averaging a laughable sub-19 yards per return, a full 10 yards below McCaffrey's average.


Well, I didn’t trash Christian McCaffrey. In fact, I specifically said that he’s a fine player, and has a shot to win the Heisman Trophy next year. But he certainly didn’t deserve to win it this year. Secondly, he’ll have to do a lot more if he wants to win it next year. However, I had a feeling you’d be making your way into this thread soon. I’m just a little surprised it took this long. You’re usually one of the first to pipe up and complain anytime Alabama wins anything, or one of their players win anything. Awsi, you’re as biased as they come, sir.


Now, what I find most interesting regarding your rambling about Alabama fans, biases, and everything else….is that you never once mentioned that Christian McCaffrey should’ve won the Heisman Trophy. Nor did you even make a case for it. Neither has anyone else. That’s because you know there isn’t one to be made. At least attempt to make a case for him, so I can tear it to shreds using the facts.


I can make a case for why Deshaun Watson deserved the Heisman Trophy, and certainly deserved to finish second. I can’t make a case for Christian McCaffrey. There’s not one. I can make a case for why Dalvin Cook deserved to be there in New York over McCaffrey.
You see, Derrick Henry is the reason why Alabama is where they are, and why they’re in the playoff. They wouldn’t be there without what he’s done. Just like Clemson wouldn’t be where they are without Deshaun Watson. If anyone would like to make that same argument for McCaffrey and Stanford, they’re actually making a case for why Henry and Watson should’ve finished 1 and 2 in the Heisman voting.


Stanford even uses McCaffrey on punt returns. He’s a terrible punt returner. He only scored 8 rushing touchdowns because he’s not even the best goal line running back on his own team. He gets pulled down close to the endzone in favor of Remound Wright. Because the goal is to punch it in.


The voters saw the All-Purpose yards for McCafrrey much the way I did. They view them as empty because a lot of the kickoff yardage is exactly that. He averages around 28.9 yards per kickoff return. Hell, you can take a knee in the endzone and get 25 yards. Furthermore, there’s no contact on kickoffs for the first 15 or 20 yards. Using your logic, all Alabama had to do was put Henry back there returning kicks, let him accumulate a bunch of empty kick return yardage, and we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.


The statistics I used were anything but empty. They’re exactly the criteria that players already with a Heisman Trophy in their possession use to determine who gets their vote. Including sports writers with a vote. You can’t go half the season without scoring a TD and deserve a Heisman Trophy. You already know that. The reality is, Derrick Henry won every region in a landslide except for the Far West region. It wasn’t because of being gullible, or being swayed, or bias. To the contrary. It illustrates that the rest of the country wasn’t gullible enough to buy into the late hype and bias created for McCaffrey after he had a good game against USC.


Derrick Henry was the front runner for the Heisman Trophy ever since he bested the former front runner, Leonard Fournette, head-to-head. The votes had already been cast the week before the Conference Championship games.


Let me know when you see a Heisman Trophy winner on a 2 loss team, that got shutout in half the games he played that season, and did absolutely nothing against the two best teams on their schedule.


It’s not Henry’s fault that Alabama has the best run defense in the country, and shut down Fournette. If Fournette deserved the Heisman, then he wouldn’t have been held to 31 yards against Bama in the first place. LSU faultered after the Bama game because they were beat up after they played Alabama. It took a toll on ‘em. Just like Georgia began to faulter after they played Alabama. They were physically whipped, and it takes a while to recover. Same for Arkansas, Texas A&M, and Ole Miss after they played Alabama. Trust me, the Crimson Tide just feels different after you play them. You’re a little more beat up and a little more physically spent after you play Alabama.


You've got players out there like Tennessee linebacker Darrin Kirkland making a point to tweet about how different it is playing against Alabama.....


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#Vols All-SEC Fr middle LB Darrin Kirkland: I only felt like a freshman when we played Bama and Arkansas. Those were some big, strong dudes.





Derrick Henry has certain weaknesses as a prospect. He’s not perfect, just like all the rest of ‘em that have ever played. I know exactly what those weaknesses are too. However, nobody in here has been able to accurately point them out. Because they don’t know what they are. They usually don’t.


Lastly, it’s completely irrelevant whether or not people think Henry is overrated. It doesn’t affect anything. He’s got the hardware, and he got it because he was the most deserving candidate. He’ll have it for the rest of his life. I guess it’s people like you that are going to have to learn to live with that. This entire thread is a little absurd.
 
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Derrick Henry had a very nice season, an Eddie George type season. That was the comparison I made on a college football site several weeks ago. I think it fits. Henry right now is more stiff than George was as a senior at Ohio State but I could see him loosening up a bit and having a similar pro career.

Henry didn't have a spectacular season, one that would preclude any other argument. That's what the Alabama fans are trying to pretend and it's more than laughable. Averaging less than 6 yards per rush is not an awesome season, particularly when you didn't contribute in other areas and your team is so dominant overall, averaging nearly 5 yards per rush while allowing 2.38. To put that into perspective, only 3 teams allowed fewer than 3.16 yards per rush this season. Alabama was a full 8 tenths superior to 4th place. That's mind boggling. The next gap of 8 tenths drops you all the way from 4th to 40th. It means Alabama has trump card superiority on the line of scrimmage versus every opponent. Naturally the Tide fans have come to think of that as normal and deserved. The adjustments at the pro level are wildly overstated but in the college game you can have 20 point favoritism between two teams in the Top 10.

I didn't think Eddie George should have won the Heisman that season. I preferred Tommie Frazier of Nebraska. Likewise this season I wanted Christian McCaffrey to get it. Simply a more brilliant player, IMO. McCaffrey didn't average 6 yards per rush either, but obviously he contributed mightily everywhere else. Most contemporary Heisman backs did average at least 6 yards per rush.

Besides there is indeed a current bias toward southeastern and midwestern players for the major awards. They can take advantage of the slanted terrain and vault to the top via a hot few weeks or month. That's how Robert Griffin won the Heisman over Andrew Luck in 2011. I doubt McCaffrey will prevail next season. Stanford will be breaking in a new quarterback. The opponents can key on McCaffrey, who by sheer probability will have a numbers drop from this season. Those West Coast teams are simply not high profile, not close to the dynamic of my youth. In those days there would be a national doubleheader with the Pac 8 team last on center stage. I knew all about Steve Sogge and Mark Harmon, etc. via sitting in my suburban Miami living room and watching the colorful Pac 8 game from late afternoon through early evening. Those players were the last ones you remembered to conclude a college football Saturday. That's how guys like Garrett and Beban and Simpson and Plunkett won that award in short order in that era. I always like to point out situational influence from decades ago to younger fans who weren't around to experience it. I seriously doubt you'll see West Coast monopolization like that again. It took the Hollywood USC team to produce Leinart and Bush back to back. That dynamic almost certainly won't unfold again. A Derrick Henry can vault from second or third tier very easily as long as his geography cooperates.

Slimm posted that McCaffrey did nothing against Notre Dame. I hadn't watched that tape and waited to comment. Brian Kelly should be strung up for losing that game. That's my overall assessment. It was so much easier for Notre Dame to gash Stanford for 5-8 yards on the ground than for Stanford to do similar to them. Notre Dame's athletes controlled that game in the trenches, particularly after the first couple of series when McCaffrey managed maybe 45 yards in relatively easy fashion. From that point forth the Irish were determined to overplay Stanford's base offense and force Kevin Hogan to beat them elsewhere. He did, by targeting Cajuste often along with the other new wrinkles, the ones David Shaw added this year. I've mentioned them several times recently. Those wrinkles weren't in place at the Northwestern opener. Stanford relaxed and didn't force McCaffrey into traffic. After all, Stanford is vulnerable to equally talented opponents while Alabama is not. There are only a handful of opponents who can line up man to man with Alabama. Mississippi certainly wasn't one of them. That game was a monumental fluke, as I posted on several sites at the time. Weird deflections and unlikely turnovers. Ohio State can line up against Alabama and not have the worst of it. It's criminal they aren't in the title game. Likewise Florida State can line up. Believe it or not Tennessee belongs on the list also, despite their record. They pushed Oklahoma around for the bulk of the game and really should have enjoyed a far greater margin before initiating the choke. Notre Dame has sporadic great players surrounded by positions that drop off quite a bit, some due to injury.

Anyway, Brian Kelly gave away that Stanford game by sideways garbage play calling in the red zone during the first half. No chance they drop that game if the shotgun formation didn't exist or the Check With Me offense didn't exist. The Irish could have slammed into the end zone and taken a considerable deserved lead instead of settling for short field goals after the weakling play calls. I was rooting for Stanford but it was still sickening to watch how that result unfolded.

I want to like Alabama. I think they'll take it all this season. When they have this caliber of defense, so far superior to 2013 and 2014, they normally prevail. I appreciate their style of play and defensive intensity level above virtually any other current program. I despise Nick Saban. But more than anything, Alabama fans somehow feel wronged when among any team in the nation they receive near annual gifts. This year is no exception. Alabama lost at home again yet was excused into the title playoff. That has become one of the great traditions in college football, right up there with Traveler circling the Coliseum, for Alabama to lose at home yet the voters to look away. This time they took it to new level. Not a close game. The Tide was down 3 scores in the 4th quarter with their fans filing out of the stadium. No problem. I realize with 4 teams instead of 2 there will be more home losers escorted into title contention. Ohio State blew to Virginia Tech at home last season. Alabama takes it to Warp 9 levels of absurdity. They literally win more titles after a home defeat that the rest of the nation combined. Heck, I remember in 1978 when USC mostly toyed with Alabama on their home field en route to a double digit win, the two teams finished with only 1 loss apiece, and Alabama fans were livid that USC claimed even a half share of the title. That's how wacko the sense of reality had become. It remains there.

This season not only does Alabama sidestep that home loss but they also had the incredible fortune to draw Michigan State and its 7.2 YPA pass defense in the first round. Unbelievable. Ohio State is miles superior to Michigan State. Like last year, Ohio State has a dominant pass defense at 5.7 YPA, superior to any of the four teams in title contention. Granted, Ohio State essentially eliminated itself via the moronic "system fit" decision to change quarterbacks in mid season, but that outcome of the Ohio State/ Michigan State game completely altered the Final Four, and primarily in Alabama's favor. It's like a mini bye to play a team with a 7.2 YPA instead of a team that already vanquished you last season and would be extremely confident given a return meeting.

To finish, I completely understand why Alabama fans on one site after another are so defensive toward Derrick Henry. It's hardly limited to this site. That program was long denied a Heisman champ, probably unfairly, and once they had one in Ingram he's not exactly been an NFL whirlwind and has drawn plenty of criticism. Now their next winner is not only questioned regarding worthiness above Christian McCaffrey but he's unfairly labeled a 4th rounder before he's even played the bowl game.

Those things should be recognized as comparative trivia compared to the favorable path Alabama has received so often lately, including the title game rematch with LSU after losing to them late in the season on your home field. Imagine Ohio State now facing Michigan State for the title. No different.
 
For the record I'm a BAMA hater but if I could trade down and get Ragland and Henry I'd be ecstatic.


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Meant to hit thumbs down..awsi...stupid f****** post.
 
Todd Gurley and now Henry. :bobdole: FH can't stop putting the cart before the horse.

WE HAVE NO DEFENSE AND A LEAKY OL, WHY THE **** WOULD WE DRAFT A RB?!!! HE WILL BE DEAD BEFORE THE REST OF THE TEAM IS BUILT!!!

BUILD THE TEAM AND THEN DRAFT A STUD RB IN '18
 
Todd Gurley and now Henry. :bobdole: FH can't stop putting the cart before the horse.

WE HAVE NO DEFENSE AND A LEAKY OL, WHY THE **** WOULD WE DRAFT A RB?!!! HE WILL BE DEAD BEFORE THE REST OF THE TEAM IS BUILT!!!

BUILD THE TEAM AND THEN DRAFT A STUD RB IN '18

Hey um, your cap locks are on. Actually our line did a great job run blocking when healthy.

Best player available, regardless of need. That's how I roll.


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Hey um, your cap locks are on. Actually our line did a great job run blocking when healthy.

Best player available, regardless of need. That's how I roll.


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hey um, this forum has some stupid ****ing ideas
 
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