anyone got a report on Roth so far? | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

anyone got a report on Roth so far?

islandah said:
Does this mean that I am not allowed to disagree with him? I guess unquestioned agreement and embarrassingly sucking up is one way to go. However, I think CK enjoys a good debate and is, as you say, more than equipped to handle one. I immediately made sure to mention that the blah,blah,blah comment was not made in disrespect. Everything else has just been good healthy debate.

If we all agreed, there'd be no need for this site. Agree or disagree, it's still a lot more fun than working!:goof:
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Disagree, fine. Direspect, not fine, take it to the depths and get mauled. CK is the man.
 
ckparrothead said:
Actually JT had decent rookie and second years (14 sacks), but sucked in his 3rd year (2.5 sacks). At the time our DL "coach" was Cary Godette, who basically let Trace Armstrong do all the de-facto DL coaching.

Oh how I remember the arguments back then. Everyone was sooooo convinced that "the book had been written" on blocking JT and all you had to do was "muscle him" out of the way. LOL. Funny then, still funny now.

Clarence Brooks came in and taught JT some real moves, all the sudden JT explodes with 14.5 sacks.

I wonder though...if someone counted all the plays Roth was involved in...did a study to look at his production per play...I bet it would be as high as Kevin Carter. The guy only got one sack and his pass rush wasn't incredible but he was VERY strong against the run IMO.
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My bad, I just remember the explosion of sacks. Guess it was 3rd to 4th years...
 
islandah said:
Watched every game and saw a reasonable backup performance. Nothing to make me think he should be starting, or would compete anytime soon. As for your example, everyone knew Ryan Leaf was going to translate to the NFL; and you have only to look at the numerous Vince Young threads on this site from draft time to recognize that he is far from a concensus pick to succeed.

Don't get me wrong guys, I want Roth to develop into the monster you all say he can be. I am just not willing to accept his college career as proof that's going to happen.

And c'mon, ck, for every Chad Johnson you give, you darn well know there are ten highly rated guys that just didn't pan out. They don't come as easily to mind because they just quietly disappeared.
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Comparing rookie stats, if he's half as good as Jason Taylor was/is that is fine with me.
 
fin1 said:
Disagree, fine. Direspect, not fine, take it to the depths and get mauled. CK is the man.
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Once again, point out the disrespect.
 
Roth weighed 280 at the minicamps. Looking at him in the training camp videos he looks like he's 290. He's added muscle since last year, no question about that. I am still concerned with his short arms though.
 
islandah said:
Really? You think for every ten that don't make it, there are a hundred that ultimately do? Don't have the #'s to back it up, but that's certainly not my perception.
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However there are players that do well as a rookie and suck for the rest of their career.
 
fin1 said:
Considering the person you dissed, you're getting off easy.
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Explain to me, specifically, how I "dissed" him.
 
islandah said:
Really? You think for every ten that don't make it, there are a hundred that ultimately do? Don't have the #'s to back it up, but that's certainly not my perception.
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You said for every Chad Johnson I give, there are ten "highly rated" guys that didn't pan out. To me, this implies that for every "highly rated" player that pans out despite not having a swell rookie year, there are ten
"highly rated" players that do not pan out period. My statement was "and a hundred players that turned out to be really good despite not playing well in their rookie year"

So what I was saying is for every 'highly rated' guy that panned out despite not having a great rookie year, there are a hundred regular guys that panned out despite not having a swell rookie year. That was probably exaggerated a bit...it would be like saying of every 100 players that panned out despite not having a swell rookie year, only 1 of them was highly rated. That number may be more along the lines of 10 out of 100.
 
ckparrothead said:
You said for every Chad Johnson I give, there are ten "highly rated" guys that didn't pan out. To me, this implies that for every "highly rated" player that pans out despite not having a swell rookie year, there are ten
"highly rated" players that do not pan out period. My statement was "and a hundred players that turned out to be really good despite not playing well in their rookie year"

So what I was saying is for every 'highly rated' guy that panned out despite not having a great rookie year, there are a hundred regular guys that panned out despite not having a swell rookie year. That was probably exaggerated a bit...it would be like saying of every 100 players that panned out despite not having a swell rookie year, only 1 of them was highly rated. That number may be more along the lines of 10 out of 100.
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So I guess your point is that a relatively unimpressive rookie year doesn't rule out success. I agree and as I said, I hope to watch Roth and Manny Wright maul opposing linemen for years to come. However, I'm just saying that a stellar college career doesn't give me great confidence that NFL success is imminent.
 
islandah said:
Once again, point out the disrespect.
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CK gave a long, well thought out defense of Roth, and you replied with "blah, blah, blah." When I read that, I literally laughed out loud. Total disrespect and a wonderful display of stupidity.

You subsequently apologized, but I believe that is the disrespect fin1 was alluding to.
 
islandah said:
So I guess your point is that a relatively unimpressive rookie year doesn't rule out success. I agree and as I said, I hope to watch Roth and Manny Wright maul opposing linemen for years to come. However, I'm just saying that a stellar college career doesn't give me great confidence that NFL success is imminent.
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Yeah my point is actually that if you tallied the number of "good" players in the NFL, a very very high percentage of them did not do particularly well rookie year...like 80-90%.
 
fin1 said:
Considering the person you dissed, you're getting off easy.
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u going to spank him? wow, now i will admit that i have enjoyed CK's posts and analysis in the draft and basically everything the man has ever written, but to say that another poster will never have any knowledge and will always be inferior to him is unbelievable. if the man wants to disagree with anothers thoughts he has every right to do so. to come into this and say "ur lucky ur getting off on this cuz of who ur dealing with" **** is disrespectful in its own way to the other poster.
 
Gardenhead said:
CK gave a long, well thought out defense of Roth, and you replied with "blah, blah, blah." When I read that, I literally laughed out loud. Total disrespect and a wonderful display of stupidity.

You subsequently apologized, but I believe that is the disrespect fin1 was alluding to.
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Know what makes me laugh out loud? The fact that CK and I have continued our debate in a civil and polite manner while others get their panties in a twist for a perceived disrespectful comment.

I will explain for them, as CK obviously doesn't seem to need it. When I said "blah, blah, blah," it was meant to convey "you can make whatever argument you want, but at the end of the day, some perform in the NFL, and some don't". It didn't mean, nor do I think CK took it that way, "Your thoughts are stupid, or meaningless, or unimportant." However, I specifically reiterated that in a subsequent post. I never got the feeling from CK that he felt disrespected. Now saying someone showed a display of stupidity, now that would be disrespectful.:rolleyes:
 
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