Are Love or Herbert better prospects than Rosen? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Are Love or Herbert better prospects than Rosen?

Pretty much sums up how on feel on these guys as well. I don't think that Rosen is a franchise QB. I also don't think that neither Love nor Herbert are either. For me the tanking thing is dumb as we clearly didn't do that. We hit the reset button and were able to get draft assets, clear cap and evaluate a ton of young players that we wouldn't have if we still had all the overpriced vets ahead of them. The team were clearly trying to win games and that to me is how you build a culture of success.

We are in year 2 of a rebuild. It would seem silly to play the lottery with either of these guys when there are 2 far more talented QBs who will be in the next draft and we have a ton of holes to fill. Nailing the pick at #5 and landing a cornerstone defensive player seems far more prudent to me. Rosen could and should be a very good backup QB and he's cheap so again if we aren't getting Burrow I'm hanging onto him.

I actually think all 3 guys are better prospects than Burrow. With Burrow you are legit hoping that high level game management and accuracy stays at that level as the playing field levels off . . . .despite having lesser athletic/arm gifts.

Truth be told, this QB class isn't as Rock solid as some have it (for many reasons). . . And the thought of giving up everything we set ourselves up for last season is very scary.

I fully agree if the upgrade is not definitive in the front office's mind don't force it. But if it is clearly there . . . Do what you must to get your guy.
 
Rosen is a fantastic 7 on 7 QB. He looks great in camps, in these passing tournaments...ball comes out clean, nice spin and nice touch.

Problem is, when he is on the field with 21 other players and has to think...he is a ****ing blockhead.
 
I actually think all 3 guys are better prospects than Burrow. With Burrow you are legit hoping that high level game management and accuracy stays at that level as the playing field levels off . . . .despite having lesser athletic/arm gifts.

Truth be told, this QB class isn't as Rock solid as some have it (for many reasons). . . And the thought of giving up everything we set ourselves up for last season is very scary.

I fully agree if the upgrade is not definitive in the front office's mind don't force it. But if it is clearly there . . . Do what you must to get your guy.

Burrow definitely doesn't have the elite arm talent but he's got elite accuracy/timing and a confidence in himself that's beyond his years. There's something to these guys who have that "IT" factor and he definitely has it. I've been saying this since early in the year when I got on the Burrow bandwagon that he's got a Steve Young / Joe Montana kind of thing going for him. He also has an unquestionable ability to lead and we haven't had that in a young talented QB since Marino.
 
Rosen is a fantastic 7 on 7 QB. He looks great in camps, in these passing tournaments...ball comes out clean, nice spin and nice touch.

Problem is, when he is on the field with 21 other players and has to think...he is a ****ing blockhead.

Can't deny that. I don't really see much difference with Love or Herbert either in terms of decision making and a natural feel for the game. Herbert is robotic and Love makes awful decisions that regardless of talent level around him should never be made.

I think I'd rather take a flyer on Winston (if available) or maybe even Mariota than Love/Herbert.
 
I'd take a QB. If the price is right I trade up for Tua. If not, I wait at #5 and choose between Herbert and Love. We don't know how fast or slow Herbert or Love will develop with an NFL offense, and NFL talent and coaches. Rosen, on the other hand, has been in the NFL for two seasons now and he's shown painfully slow development, if any at all. Yes, he can make throws, but his reads are poor so he doesn't move the offense very well. I still keep Rosen and let him keep trying to get better, but that seems less than likely at this point. So I want another QB to compete with Rosen for when Fitz is gone.

Taking a player at another position at #5 doesn't guarantee that player will be a stud either so I say take the shot at the most important position.
 
Rosen is a fantastic 7 on 7 QB. He looks great in camps, in these passing tournaments...ball comes out clean, nice spin and nice touch.

Problem is, when he is on the field with 21 other players and has to think...he is a ****ing blockhead.

It's crazy because he also has really great pocket awareness and improvising ability (towards the end of his playtime last year it all fell apart and I think that's why they pulled him not to be seen again, not to ruin the gains he made out of sight).

But to your point if he doesn't become quicker at just processing what he sees and making smarter decisions when things fall apart, he will never utilize all that talent. He doesn't have the athletic ability to overcome that sort of deficiency.
 
It's crazy because he also has really great pocket awareness and improvising ability (towards the end of his playtime last year it all fell apart and I think that's why they pulled him not to be seen again, not to ruin the gains he made out of sight).

But to your point if he doesn't become quicker at just processing what he sees and making smarter decisions when things fall apart, he will never utilize all that talent. He doesn't have the athletic ability to overcome that sort of deficiency.

It didn't help him that in his last game, or maybe the game before it, our receivers dropped a ton of beautifully thrown balls. Not to mention we had perhaps the worst running game in history and had almost no choice but to throw the ball to try and move the sticks.
 
I would say all three would need to have a stable situation around them to nurture and succeed in 2020. If any of the three are place in a situation similar to what the the Dolphins had last year or the Cardinals had in 2018 than you're going to a lot of struggles on some tape.
 
Call me crazy but I'm not enamored with either. Especially after hearing how much Tannenbum gushes over Herbert. Love is a massive wildcard and maybe he's going to be a steal. But comparing what they've shown in college vs what Rosen has shown, are either worth giving up a pick that could be used on a transformative player at another position just to find out? Rosen is tough and can make all the throws. His decision making is slow but that's exactly the same for these 2nd tier guys. At least Rosen has shown he can make plays against an NFL defense.

I don't want any part of Tua. Saw on ESPN or NFL network last night where they said Tua has NEVER completed a full season in HS or college. How the heck is he going to suddenly get healthy playing in the NFL and last a full season and seasons? The thought of taking him at 5 scares me. The thought of giving up an additional 1st to move up for him makes me sick to think about.

For me it's a no brainer. Either do what it takes to move up to 1 and grab Burrow, stay at 5 and take a stud defensive player or move back from 5 and take Love or Herbert plus get an extra asset from moving back. Burrow would probably cost us 5 and 18 this year plus our high 2nd and/or a 1st next year. I'd do that in a heartbeat then look to move Rosen for a 2nd. Or maybe include Rosen in the deal. Can't recall if it was McShay or Jeremiah but one of them said they can't stress enough how much Miami wants Burrow. Could be wishful thinking but I'm going to pray that's what ends up happening.

So to wrap up the question, what would you do?

If we move up it has to be for Burrow, I agree with you, reaching for a QB that could´nt get a complete healthy season in college is out of the question at 5.
 
Just look at this. If Rosen has a quality Oline like Tanny had in tennesee what do you think could happen, regresses or he thrives
 
Call me crazy but I'm not enamored with either. Especially after hearing how much Tannenbum gushes over Herbert. Love is a massive wildcard and maybe he's going to be a steal. But comparing what they've shown in college vs what Rosen has shown, are either worth giving up a pick that could be used on a transformative player at another position just to find out? Rosen is tough and can make all the throws. His decision making is slow but that's exactly the same for these 2nd tier guys. At least Rosen has shown he can make plays against an NFL defense.

I don't want any part of Tua. Saw on ESPN or NFL network last night where they said Tua has NEVER completed a full season in HS or college. How the heck is he going to suddenly get healthy playing in the NFL and last a full season and seasons? The thought of taking him at 5 scares me. The thought of giving up an additional 1st to move up for him makes me sick to think about.

For me it's a no brainer. Either do what it takes to move up to 1 and grab Burrow, stay at 5 and take a stud defensive player or move back from 5 and take Love or Herbert plus get an extra asset from moving back. Burrow would probably cost us 5 and 18 this year plus our high 2nd and/or a 1st next year. I'd do that in a heartbeat then look to move Rosen for a 2nd. Or maybe include Rosen in the deal. Can't recall if it was McShay or Jeremiah but one of them said they can't stress enough how much Miami wants Burrow. Could be wishful thinking but I'm going to pray that's what ends up happening.

So to wrap up the question, what would you do?

Josh Rosen 6’4 218 lbs, 4.85 40 Yard dash

Passing


YearSchoolConfClassPosGCmpAttPctYdsY/AAY/ATDIntRate
Passing
*2015UCLAPac-12FRQB1329248760.036697.57.52311134.3
2016UCLAPac-12SOQB613723159.319158.38.2105138.9
*2017UCLAPac-12JRQB1128345262.637568.38.52610147.0
CareerUCLA712117060.993408.08.05926140.1


Justin Herbert, 6’6, 237, 40 time 4.69

Passing


YearSchoolConfClassPosGCmpAttPctYdsY/AAY/ATDIntRate
Passing
2016OregonPac-12FRQB816225563.519367.68.4194148.8
*2017OregonPac-12SOQB813920667.519839.610.0155167.5
*2018OregonPac-12JRQB1324040459.431517.88.3298144.6
*2019OregonPac-12SRQB1428642866.834718.19.0326156.8
CareerOregon827129364.0105418.28.89523153.1

Jordan Love, 6’4, 225, 40 time 4.74

Passing


YearSchoolConfClassPosGCmpAttPctYdsY/AAY/ATDIntRate
Passing
*2017Utah StateMWCFRQB1212923554.916316.96.586119.3
*2018Utah StateMWCSOQB1326741764.035678.69.4326158.3
*2019Utah StateMWCJRQB1329347361.934027.26.42017129.1
CareerUtah State689112561.286007.67.66029137.9

Stats are from:
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/justin-herbert-1.html

Out of the 3 prospects, based on their stats and Combine Numbers:

Justin Herbert would be the general consensus highest rated prospect out of the 3 from a risk reward standpoint. He had 4 years, so has more experience coming in the league than Love & Rosen. However, his coaching isn’t highly regarded. He Flashed and has put up bigger numbers than Rosen, but has questions about his introvertedness (like Josh Rosen, but not as negative coming out), and he hasn’t always shown up in big games yet. Has a cannon for an arm, and prodigious size. Is a slightly better athlete and has proven he can giddy up when required.

Jordan Love would be the next highest rated prospect. His leadership and confidence are considered a strength. Arm strength is elite, second to Herberts and probably better than Rosen’s. He had one year where he flashed a 64% completion %, and threw 32 touchdown’s to 6 interceptions. So he has flashed that he can put it all together. he regressed last year and threw 17 interceptions, but literally all of his weapons had moved on, so he may have tried to force things a bit too much. However, I personally would not be surprised if a number of GM’s rated Jordan Love higher than Justin Herbert. If he had a chance to sit for a year and learn, he has a very high ceiling, and perhaps he’s closer to the QB we saw in 2018 as opposed to the one we saw in 2019?

Josh Rosen has decent measurables, and a live arm. Two years of NFL experience. If Herbert had come out in 2018, he would’ve been the 1st pick over Rosen. However, If Rosen works hard he could improve and hopefully we can get some of the assets we traded for him back One day. He seems to have trouble grasping all of the pre-snap reads required to read a defense and such. He also seems to lack that It factor and his leadership Is a question mark. However, it’s possible he can put it all together one day and ball out on the field which would make him more confident, and improve his leadership abilities, but there is probably just as good of a chance that he won’t.
 
I couldn't pass up on Tua at 5 and I'm also concerned about his injuries.

Needless to say, every pick in the draft comes with risk. I'll take the risk with the best prospect in the draft if and only if he falls to 5... which he will.
 
Just look at this. If Rosen has a quality Oline like Tanny had in tennesee what do you think could happen, regresses or he thrives

Hard to say. I was always a big Tannehill fan, hated that we let him go, and wasn't surprised to see him do well / fail in the biggest moments. I don't think Rosen has anywhere near the ceiling that Tannehill has.
 
Thanks for taking the time to put together the stats and your summaries Kyndig. So based on that, in your opinion is it worth giving up the 5th (or maybe even having to move up?) to take Herbert or Love?
 
It's crazy because he also has really great pocket awareness and improvising ability (towards the end of his playtime last year it all fell apart and I think that's why they pulled him not to be seen again, not to ruin the gains he made out of sight).

But to your point if he doesn't become quicker at just processing what he sees and making smarter decisions when things fall apart, he will never utilize all that talent. He doesn't have the athletic ability to overcome that sort of deficiency.
 
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