Are Love or Herbert better prospects than Rosen?

[SF Dolphin Fan]

Another part of the equation. What if Miami decides not to take a quarterback at #5, or punt until 2021? I know, that would seem like a fail to many fans. Myself included.

But what would the draft possibly look like? At #5, the Dolphins could take a game-changer on defense like Simmons or Brown. You know Flores would love to get his hands on either of those two players. Simmons can play safety, linebacker and rush end. He's the ultimate playmaker. Some consider Brown the top player in the entire draft, an absolute offensive line wrecker. Either player would go a long way in building the defense.

I don't think Love makes it to #18 if Miami wants him. Eason, Fromm or Hurts are next in line and that's not overly exciting.

Punting to 2021 is risky. If Miami continues to overachieve, the top quarterbacks (Lawrence and Fields) would be out of reach and a trade-up would be unlikely.

 

[gofins60]

Before the 2019 season began, I thought a big key for the year was finding out what the team had in Josh Rosen.

This is why I think that Grier wasted the entire 2019 season. Rebuilding the o-line should have been their #1 priority heading into the 2019 season. With a half-decent o-line (and an accompanying running game), Flores would have been able to get a good idea of what Rosen could do. However, Grier mostly ignored the o-line, and the only reason they won five games was due to an experienced QB making plays with his arm and his legs... without the help of a running game or pass protection. Remember, the whole point of tearing down the roster was to start over by building a team that could win, not to "Tank For Tua"! Flores should've already known when last season ended if they were going to roll with Rosen in 2020, or if they needed to draft a QB this year. But Grier failed to do what was needed so the QB position is still a question mark, because I'm sure that no one here knows 100% how Rosen will do with a decent o-line and running game.

 

[Kdawg954]

Hard to say. I was always a big Tannehill fan, hated that we let him go, and wasn't surprised to see him do well / fail in the biggest moments. I don't think Rosen has anywhere near the ceiling that Tannehill has.

Tannehill has a higher ceiling based on his athletic gifts. But Rosen's ability inside the pocket makes him look much more athletic than Tannehill. Tannehill can read what's in front of him pre/post snap quicker than Rosen but he is more hesitant to pull the trigger than Josh is. Both guys can throw the rock extremely well.

So basically whoever can overcome their biggest deficiencies will have the greatest chance of success in their careers.

 

[Kyndig]

Thanks for taking the time to put together the stats and your summaries Kyndig. So based on that, in your opinion is it worth giving up the 5th (or maybe even having to move up?) to take Herbert or Love?

I am completely against giving up these valuable draft assets that we traded really good players away for to draft any one of these guys, including Tua. In fact, I wouldn’t mind it if we drafted Isaiah Simons at 5, and then used our two other first round picks to trade back up and draft Jordan Love Later in the round? I wouldn’t mind if we took Tua or Herbert at 5 depending upon what the front office thinks (even Love). I just don’t think it’s worth trading assets for Tua and not sure others will either based on risk/reward and other options available?

Alternatively, getting one of these 3 QB prospects, an Offensive Tackle, and a running back (I personally like Jonathan Taylor from Wisconson) would also be a great success in the first round?

 

[Kyndig]

Another part of the equation. What if Miami decides not to take a quarterback at #5, or punt until 2021? I know, that would seem like a fail to many fans. Myself included.

But what would the draft possibly look like? At #5, the Dolphins could take a game-changer on defense like Simmons or Brown. You know Flores would love to get his hands on either of those two players. Simmons can play safety, linebacker and rush end. He's the ultimate playmaker. Some consider Brown the top player in the entire draft, an absolute offensive line wrecker. Either player would go a long way in building the defense.

I don't think Love makes it to #18 if Miami wants him. Eason, Fromm or Hurts are next in line and that's not overly exciting.

Punting to 2021 is risky. If Miami continues to overachieve, the top quarterbacks (Lawrence and Fields) would be out of reach and a trade-up would be unlikely.

There are 3 bluechip QB prospects that should have at least 1 available to us, we should really try and draft one this year. I think what were we doing last year then if we don’t get a Tua, Herbert, or Love?

 

[Mach2]

This is why I think that Grier wasted the entire 2019 season. Rebuilding the o-line should have been their #1 priority heading into the 2019 season. With a half-decent o-line (and an accompanying running game), Flores would have been able to get a good idea of what Rosen could do. However, Grier mostly ignored the o-line, and the only reason they won five games was due to an experienced QB making plays with his arm and his legs... without the help of a running game or pass protection. Remember, the whole point of tearing down the roster was to start over by building a team that could win, not to "Tank For Tua"! Flores should've already known when last season ended if they were going to roll with Rosen in 2020, or if they needed to draft a QB this year. But Grier failed to do what was needed so the QB position is still a question mark, because I'm sure that no one here knows 100% how Rosen will do with a decent o-line and running game.

This dead horse ha already been beaten beyond recognition. Is there really a purpose in running the bloated carcass through a wood chipper?

What's done is done. Let it go. You know, spilled milk, and all that?

 

[fansinceGWilson]

I am completely against giving up these valuable draft assets that we traded really good players away for to draft any one of these guys, including Tua. In fact, I wouldn’t mind it if we drafted Isaiah Simons at 5, and then used our two other first round picks to trade back up and draft Jordan Love Later in the round? I wouldn’t mind if we took Tua or Herbert at 5 depending upon what the front office thinks (even Love). I just don’t think it’s worth trading assets for Tua and not sure others will either based on risk/reward and other options available?

Alternatively, getting one of these 3 QB prospects, an Offensive Tackle, and a running back (I personally like Jonathan Taylor from Wisconson) would also be a great success in the first round?

One of the factors not discussed on FH is human nature. In this case, risk tolerance. Some people like to take big risks, some stay with low risk, some with no risk. None of them are wrong - people in all 3 groups are successful. Miami (and all teams) are staffed with humans with certain levels of risk aversion. what is Miami's? No one knows. Throwing out what they 'SHOULD' do is just background noise. Throw in no one knows how Miami ranks any prospect at any position and the future looks even cloudier. I'll not even begin to guess how Miami ranks the current roster. Those making predictions are actually stating preferences. As far as risk aversion, FA will tell a lot.

I can make a case Flo and staff love Rosen or, conversely, know it's time to move on. I have no idea which is the accurate assessment. Love? Herbert? Again, no idea. I doubt their priorities are the same as those of us here. This is where interviews and personality evaluations are critical.

 

[tcdrover]

Tannehill has a higher ceiling based on his athletic gifts. But Rosen's ability inside the pocket makes him look much more athletic than Tannehill. Tannehill can read what's in front of him pre/post snap quicker than Rosen but he is more hesitant to pull the trigger than Josh is. Both guys can throw the rock extremely well.

So basically whoever can overcome their biggest deficiencies will have the greatest chance of success in their careers.

Rosen has much better pocket awareness than rt IMHO.

Another thing that is easily overlooked is that I'm sure they were asking Rosen to do much more than rt,

was asked to do while he was here....

and that he was asked to do as a Titan.

The Titans did a great job with him. They only asked him to do what he does very well.

He is an extremely limited QB.

 

[Kdawg954]

I mean I don't think there are any young QBs that were gonna survive what Josh was surrounded with in 2019.

Having a young guy sink or swim doesn't give a definitive on if he can be a game changing QB in the NFL.

I think there are some people that think putting Pat Mahomes on the 2019 Miami Dolphins would of equaled a winning season. Yea we won 5 games, we pulled out every trick in the book damn near to get those.

Josh did have some bright moments in 2019 and when he needed a boost in confidence his guys were dropping passes and just not making plays for him. A young QB needs that, he NEVER got it once in 2019.

We can only base our opinions on what we saw and by that we should be all in on drafting a QB. But ultimately it's what we didn't see that will determine where Miami goes with him.

For me, Tua is the only clear upgrade and he has a history of getting nicked up and doesn't come in with ideal size. I am down for the gamble but I also understand having a limit in what to give up for that gamble. I am also down for Love/Herbert/Burrow if that is what we want to do.

Either way a strong decision needs to be made at QB and accountabity for that decision starts now.

 

[Dolfan23]

Rosen has much better pocket awareness than rt IMHO.

Another thing that is easily overlooked is that I'm sure they were asking Rosen to do much more than rt,

was asked to do while he was here....

and that he was asked to do as a Titan.

The Titans did a great job with him. They only asked him to do what he does very well.

He is an extremely limited QB.

That's pretty much all conjecture there. We have all seen Tannehill have some monster games and make monster plays. We've all seen him make absolute boneheaded plays as well. We've also only seem Tannehill play for one above average coach his entire career and didn't happen in Miami.

 

[1972forever]

I want more than a 2nd for Rosen.

Since Flores refused to play him after Fitzpatrick took over for a second time, I think the Dolphins would be lucky to get a 5th round pick for Rosen if they decided to trade him Now. With all the free agent veteran QB’s and at least 4 QB’s projected to go in the first round, there really isn’t much of a market for Rosen.

Since he isn’t expected to be the starter for the Dolphins next season and will likely be the third string QB if they draft a QB in the first round, his value in the trade market will only go down after the 2020 season.

 

[Mach2]

One of the factors not discussed on FH is human nature. In this case, risk tolerance. Some people like to take big risks, some stay with low risk, some with no risk. None of them are wrong - people in all 3 groups are successful. Miami (and all teams) are staffed with humans with certain levels of risk aversion. what is Miami's? No one knows. Throwing out what they 'SHOULD' do is just background noise. Throw in no one knows how Miami ranks any prospect at any position and the future looks even cloudier. I'll not even begin to guess how Miami ranks the current roster. Those making predictions are actually stating preferences. As far as risk aversion, FA will tell a lot.

I can make a case Flo and staff love Rosen or, conversely, know it's time to move on. I have no idea which is the accurate assessment. Love? Herbert? Again, no idea. I doubt their priorities are the same as those of us here. This is where interviews and personality evaluations are critical.

While it may not be often discussed, it is the perfect microcosm of all the personality types you mentioned, as well as a few more.

A phycology grad student could do his doctoral thesis on this motley crew.

 

[Mach2]

That's pretty much all conjecture there. We have all seen Tannehill have some monster games and make monster plays. We've all seen him make absolute boneheaded plays as well. We've also only seem Tannehill play for one above average coach his entire career and didn't happen in Miami.

It's not conjecture that JR has better pocket awareness, IMO.

It is fact.

 

[Dolfan23]

I mean I don't think there are any young QBs that were gonna survive what Josh was surrounded with in 2019.

Having a young guy sink or swim doesn't give a definitive on if he can be a game changing QB in the NFL.

I think there are some people that think putting Pat Mahomes on the 2019 Miami Dolphins would of equaled a winning season. Yea we won 5 games, we pulled out every trick in the book damn near to get those.

Josh did have some bright moments in 2019 and when he needed a boost in confidence his guys were dropping passes and just not making plays for him. A young QB needs that, he NEVER got it once in 2019.

We can only base our opinions on what we saw and by that we should be all in on drafting a QB. But ultimately it's what we didn't see that will determine where Miami goes with him.

For me, Tua is the only clear upgrade and he has a history of getting nicked up and doesn't come in with ideal size. I am down for the gamble but I also understand having a limit in what to give up for that gamble. I am also down for Love/Herbert/Burrow if that is what we want to do.

Either way a strong decision needs to be made at QB and accountabity for that decision starts now.

Rosen constantly had a defensive player in his face and he had no running game to back him up. 3/4 of the season I would have sworn that Chad O'Shea didn't even belong calling plays in high school let alone in the NFL. I don't blame Rosen for the failures that he had last year, but I also didn't believe in him coming into the NFL or coming from Arizona either and nothing he did last year moved the needle much for me.

I know some will call me crazy but I would MUCH rather load up on defensive players in round 1 and then take Hurts early in the 2nd and hopefully be able to snag a starting caliber RB in round 2 as well. Hurts will be the guy from this draft that people are going to look back at and say how did we miss so badly on him.

I also like Jacob Eason a lot as well but I don't think I'd take him until the last of our 1st and by then he may be gone. He could turn out to be a star or he could be a total flop but I like his makeup and his arm.

 

[1972forever]

I actually think all 3 guys are better prospects than Burrow. With Burrow you are legit hoping that high level game management and accuracy stays at that level as the playing field levels off . . . .despite having lesser athletic/arm gifts.

Truth be told, this QB class isn't as Rock solid as some have it (for many reasons). . . And the thought of giving up everything we set ourselves up for last season is very scary.

I fully agree if the upgrade is not definitive in the front office's mind don't force it. But if it is clearly there . . . Do what you must to get your guy.

Tom Brady never had a great arm and as an athletic QB he pretty much sucked. Yet even with a very average arm and no running skills he certainly was able to overcome his deficiencies. I have no doubt Burrow will do the same and will end up being one of the best QB’s in the NFL in the coming years.