Argentina VS Germany Fixed!!

[ckb2001]

Some of you ***** about HFA but forhet that Argentina won its second championship (after decades in the soccer darkness) at home. Some of you talk about "game being fixed" yet the third argentine championship was made possible by the "Hand of God" which every donkey on this earth saw except the referee.

I agree with much of what you said in your post, but there are some factual errors (in the paragraph quoted above):

1) Argentina has won only 2 championships, not 3.

2) They won their first in 1978 at home and their second in 1986 in Mexico.

3) Many people initially didn't think the Hand of God was a handball. This only became clear after replays from certain angles on television. Of course, Maradona later admitted it coining the phrase.

Here's a quote from wikipedia (Shilton was the goalkeeper):

"Many people, including Shilton, did not initially realize it was a handball. Some television commentators thought the objections of the English defenders were a claim for offside, and it was only clear from other camera angles - not the original one - that there had been an offence."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_of_God_goal

 

[phins_4_ever]

I agree with much of what you said in your post, but there are some factual errors (in the paragraph quoted above):

1) Argentina has won only 2 championships, not 3.

2) They won their first in 1978 at home and their second in 1986 in Mexico.

3) Many people initially didn't think the Hand of God was a handball. This only became clear after replays from certain angles on television. Of course, Maradona later admitted it coining the phrase.

Here's a quote from wikipedia (Shilton was the goalkeeper):

"Many people, including Shilton, did not initially realize it was a handball. Some television commentators thought the objections of the English defenders were a claim for offside, and it was only clear from other camera angles - not the original one - that there had been an offence."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_of_God_goal

You are correct on 1 and 2. I accidentially credited Argentina for the 1930 cup. But it was Uruguay. Argentina was only a finalist. They both play in baby blue and white anyways. :sidelol:

On 3.): I may be looking at it biased because I remember that our commentator said "hand ball" (of course it was in german at that time 'handspiel').

But Shilton was also a goalie and in the play he may not have seen it clearly. Obviously, since english players objected, they knew it was a handball. So US commentators didn't know, german commentators realized that. It would be interesting to see what commentators from other countries thought.

 

[Quelonio]

I don't know but I always assumed that the substitute keeper is the second best a nation has available. Not even Abbondanzieri could have done a dam thing about the header from Klose. That thing was a rocket into the far end of the goal.

Regarding PKs: Its all about preparation. Lehman went every single time to the side of the goal where the ball went. Before the PKs our goalie coach Koepke gave Lehman a piece of paper. Every Argentine player was listed on it and how they shoot. Once Lehman knew the shooters as they lined up he just picked those off the note.

I don't know why you all think that Argentina is the greatest team on earth . They were a favorite for the Cup sure but no safe bet. They barely beat the Ivory Coast, they drew the Netherlands to a 0-0 and beat a Mexican team which was better than Argentina. Argentina is a far cry from a great team. Some of you ***** about HFA but forhet that Argentina won its second championship (after decades in the soccer darkness) at home. Some of you talk about "game being fixed" yet the third argentine championship was made possible by the "Hand of God" which every donkey on this earth saw except the referee.

The exception from south America is Brazil. But just because Brazil is battling Argentina on a regular basis doesn't make Argentina a great team.

To be a great team you have to overcome adversity. And to be a great team you have to win with class, and you have to lose with class. But the Argentine team is a bunch of whiners. I certainly hope they get punished severely for their after game antics. It was a disgrace to soccer.

Now now, you don't exactly seem to be the best kind of winner either, just criticizing a team that fought valiantly and ended up loosing.

There always is some help for the local tema (nothing as blatant as the Koreans last world cup). It kind of just happens, it is not an excuse and the game was lost mainly because Cruz should not have played there, Messi should have had the chance, he had the ability so that he would have taken advantage of those two central defenders which would have been great at stopping headres, but not much more.

You set out historical reasons to explain why Argentina is not a great team and they are also a bunch of cheaters, they have only won twice one at home and one thanks to a hand goal... Germany has won three times, one of them at home (hmmm and I am sure you don't want to discount that one), one of them thanks to a non penalty (even the Mexican Ref has aknowledged that was not a penalty), and one in 1954 which I am afraid none of us had the priviledge of watching so we don't really know what was up with that one...

See I personally think that if we are going to search for buts in historicall winners, we can find a lot:

Italy bought it's first win thanks to Mussolini.

Brazil went through '02 without playing good soccer and just took advantage of one of the weirdest world cups and of a young german tema that was not ready to be there.

Uruguay won one at home, and the other one in 1950

France and England only have won at home

So what, neither of these teams are great teams??? Please. You won, that is cool, be gracefull in your win.

 

[dominizzo]

Forzaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazzuuuuuuuuuuuuuriiiiiiiiiiiiii

 

[phins_4_ever]

Now now, you don't exactly seem to be the best kind of winner either, just criticizing a team that fought valiantly and ended up loosing.

There always is some help for the local tema (nothing as blatant as the Koreans last world cup). It kind of just happens, it is not an excuse and the game was lost mainly because Cruz should not have played there, Messi should have had the chance, he had the ability so that he would have taken advantage of those two central defenders which would have been great at stopping headres, but not much more.

You set out historical reasons to explain why Argentina is not a great team and they are also a bunch of cheaters, they have only won twice one at home and one thanks to a hand goal... Germany has won three times, one of them at home (hmmm and I am sure you don't want to discount that one), one of them thanks to a non penalty (even the Mexican Ref has aknowledged that was not a penalty), and one in 1954 which I am afraid none of us had the priviledge of watching so we don't really know what was up with that one...

See I personally think that if we are going to search for buts in historicall winners, we can find a lot:

Italy bought it's first win thanks to Mussolini.

Brazil went through '02 without playing good soccer and just took advantage of one of the weirdest world cups and of a young german tema that was not ready to be there.

Uruguay won one at home, and the other one in 1950

France and England only have won at home

So what, neither of these teams are great teams??? Please. You won, that is cool, be gracefull in your win.

I am an excellent winner. See my post to "Pizza Boy". I gave credit to the Argentine team.

I am fighting the accusation if the game being fixed, Germany simply wins because of HFA, and everybody is out to oust the "greatest team" on earth.

I believe I am very graceful and sensitive to those who lost.

 

[Boomer]

Argentina lost this game for one reason and one reason only. We lost Abbondanzieri. I knew the Germans would tie up the game once we lost our keeper...I also knew that by losing our starting keeper Argentina had no chance in the penalty kicks. Couple that with two really BAD tries from our shooters and our fate was sealed.

2 things. Abbondanzieri wouldn't have saved you.

Second. Germany have taken part in 115 penalty shoot outs in World Cup and European Championships.

They've lost 1.

Germany were the better team and were never going to lose when it came to spot kicks.

 

[finsmx]

2 things. Abbondanzieri wouldn't have saved you.

Second. Germany have taken part in 115 penalty shoot outs in World Cup and European Championships.

They've lost 1.

Germany were the better team and were never going to lose when it came to spot kicks.

115 and only lost 1? :eek:

are you sure about this? that seems kind of unreal

 

[Prime Time]

Yeah maybe 15 you mean...115 is WAY too many.

 

[WestPhish]

I got some news for some of you. You dont win penalty kick shootout unless you have your best keeper up there. Argentina's reserve keeper was not up to par.

 

[ckb2001]

2 things. Abbondanzieri wouldn't have saved you.

Second. Germany have taken part in 115 penalty shoot outs in World Cup and European Championships.

They've lost 1.

Germany were the better team and were never going to lose when it came to spot kicks.

Yeah, as others have mentioned, this stat seems wrong, but I can't find the correct stat! For WC, the stat is 4 wins and no losses in penalty shootouts with Germans missing only 1 of 18 spot-kicks.

This link was from before the Argentina game:
http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1038527

But, I can't easily find a link for Euro Championships... someone needs to get that one.

 

[Prime Time]

It is probably 15..he probably hit the 1 twice.

 

[phins_4_ever]

It is probably 15..he probably hit the 1 twice.

He probably means 5-1.

I can only remember two PK games for Germany in the European Championship.

One in 1976 vs CSSR (a loss) and one in the 80s against England (a win).

Before 1976 neither the Worldcup nor the European Cup had PKs. It was the first time a winner was decided via PKs.

 

[Boomer]

115 and only lost 1? :eek:

are you sure about this? that seems kind of unreal

LOL. Typo.

15

 

[Boomer]

I got some news for some of you. You dont win penalty kick shootout unless you have your best keeper up there. Argentina's reserve keeper was not up to par.

I have some news for you . Abbondanzieri was a weak link and most Argentineans didn't want him playing in the first place.

 

[ckb2001]

LOL. Typo.

15

Boomer, you have a link for this? I can only find 4 shootouts in WC and 2 in Euro Championships, one of which Germany lost. But, I can't find a list of all shootouts in Euro Championships so I don't know. Anyway, 15 seems a bit high too... a link would help.