Armando brings up a GREAT point!

[oasis]

A HUGE elephant in the living room: Phins invested in a grocery getter QB and 4 out of 5 grocery getter WRs.

I'm not sure why some of you act like Pennington's doing anything other than what he was invested in to do. The grocery getter QB was perfect to rebuild the culture and lockerroom of this franchise. That is all he was meant to do (and help get some wins in the process). Anything else (e.g. playoff appearance) was a bonus and if you expected much more, you were kidding yourself. I don't think the Trifecta was thinking, "hey here's the QB that will get us a SuperBowl." We're all aware that the Pennington era is scheduled to last two years. Last year's unexpected success has spoiled Dolphins fans to the point of absurd impatience, and instead of being thankful to the guy who has poured his heart and soul into this team and played a huge role in turning things around (while knowing he is only here to help rebuild), fans turn on him by continually stating the obvious.

If we want to criticize the front office for something, speculate on whether or not we have a future franchise QB on the roster, and fault them for not getting one if you don't think so. But let's not kid ourselves about what Penny was brought here to do....the investment was a wise one and has paid off, even if you don't like his game.

 

[Simone007]

Henning's comments point more to accomodating Pennington and his deficiencies....(one way of looking at it).....or...

You can look at his comments as playing to Pennington's strengths....

The point is neither one threatens a defense....neither one puts enough points on the board....

This "spread the wealth".....conservative....time consuming...dink and dunk....base offense (that all the turnovers keep coming from) doesn't put any stress on a defense....ironically....it puts more stress on the entire offense to be perfect on every 15 play drive because those 17 or 20 precious points that this offense is capable of mustering are at an absolute premium.....all the way from the Oline's blocks.....to the WR's routes...to the TE's blocks/routes....to the RB's blocks/routes....to the QB's reads/throws.....to the guy with the football in his hands holding onto it and not fumbling......all have to be perfect against NFL caliber defenders over and over and over and over again....just to get a measly 3 points out of a drive....

There are easier ways to score points...lol.....it's called having a QB who can make the defense defend the entire field and that can make plays down the field when he HAS to...or when the opportunity is there....period...

No....not just any dumb**** with a strong arm.....you know what I'm talking about....

LTDaniel is right...."grocery getter QB" +"grocery getter WR's" +"grocery getter play calling" = longer drives....more mistakes....less points...

Miami does not have more than 2 playmakers on offense....I don't care what Henning says.....or they wouldn't be backups on Miami's roster of all places....

You're not going to get any playmakers at QB, WR, etc...by passing them up in favor of offensive lineman....or WR's that can't break that supersonic 4.5-4.6 barrier....

Miami should certainly be running the football more....but that's still not how you score points....as JAWS would say..."points come out of the passing game"....it's fact...

Running the ball is how you keep the football away from the offense on the other side of the field that CAN score points....

Defenses GIVE you something in exchange for something else....for a reason...

....in exchange for something else that they don't want to give up....


POINTS!

Perfect analysis. There is no chance for an offense that needs 20 plays to score a TD

 

[Canadianfishfan]

Well it's official... We are in Crazy town... Anyone tell me how to get to FunkyTown?

This relentless assault on Pennington is mind numbingly pedantic.

pe?dan?tic
Show Spelled Pronunciation [puh-dan-tik] Show IPA
–adjective
1. ostentatious in one's learning.
2. overly concerned with minute details or formalisms, esp. in teaching.

We get it. We hear you. WE DON'T AGREE.

Ginn's problem is Ginn... Like to know why he doesn't catch underneath??? Becasue HE DOESN'T DEMAND IT. He is a one trick pony and I don't care how many time he Outruns DB's to the endzone... he will never be a formidable piece of this (or any) offence until he learns that. There is not a single Number 1 WR in this league who does not make catches in traffic underneath or does not know how to get seperation early. Blame Ginn not Pennington...

or maybe it is the 212 guys stacking the box... Seems to me Steve Smith is no secret, might even draw some attention.. Still makes plays. :crazy:

What Henning was trying to say, that seems to have so amazingly slipped under the radar... Is that a team that has 3 good players and no stud needs SOMEONE TO STEP UP ON GAME DAY... That is the point... You can play beautifully without a stud but you cannot win if someone does not step up and beat their guy ON THE DAY.

Last year we had it in droves... Ronnie stepped up, Bess, Ricky, Penny Camarillo and Fasano... All stepped up at one time or another... Armando has once again missed the point... A team without studs that does not have at least ONE get to another level on GAME DAY will lose.

But by all means... Blame Chad... beacuse he is the only one that didn't step up. Right. Ok then... First class tick to CrazyTown one way pls.

People that only look at one player fail to understand the team concept. It's not like in this case Pennington had 4 turnovers. There are reasons for his fumble, and viewing the tape you can see a littany of errors on the field by many Dolphins. The INT.. Sure rest on his shoulders and he deserves the criticism. And he admits it..

But for Ginn. Trust me.. I would love for him to have a super game. But not one game.. every game. Great players put themselves in positions to get the ball. Counting a few plays out of 60 where Ginn gets open isn't as clear cut as well "Pennington is afaird to throw it" or "Pennington Can't throw it".

Bess, Camarillo, Fasano, and Martin all seemed to get alot of balls thrown their way that turn into completions. If Ginn has to run 30yds before he get's open.. there is a problem. And that problem is Ted Ginn Jr.

 

[Fish-Head]

People that only look at one player fail to understand the team concept. It's not like in this case Pennington had 4 turnovers. There are reasons for his fumble, and viewing the tape you can see a littany of errors on the field by many Dolphins. The INT.. Sure rest on his shoulders and he deserves the criticism. And he admits it..

But for Ginn. Trust me.. I would love for him to have a super game. But not one game.. every game. Great players put themselves in positions to get the ball. Counting a few plays out of 60 where Ginn gets open isn't as clear cut as well "Pennington is afaird to throw it" or "Pennington Can't throw it".

Bess, Camarillo, Fasano, and Martin all seemed to get alot of balls thrown their way that turn into completions. If Ginn has to run 30yds before he get's open.. there is a problem. And that problem is Ted Ginn Jr.

EXACTLY MY POINT!!! :hi5:

Don't even know why Pennington is mentioned in those instances.

 

[walt]

I don't agree with Armando. First, he mentions guys like Clayton, Moss, Jerry Rice and Adrian Peterson as guys who have to get the ball, regardless of what the defense is doing. Agreed, but we don't have anyone whose name should be mentioned in the same breath with those guys. While our "playmakers" have had their moments, I haven't seen any evidence that Ronnie, Ricky (in the past 2 years) or Ginn can be effective when the defense is keying on them. Unfortunately, living in the Boston area I see the Pats more than the Dolphins. Armando's example of Brady and Moss is off-base. Brady and the Pats have been extremely successful taking what the defense gives them. Randy Moss is one of the greatest receivers in the history of the game, but they don't try to go deep to him if the defense is taking that away. Instead, they will have a field day with short passes to Welker and Faulk. When he's passing, Brady always looks for the single coverage opportunity. Monday's game was won with two touchdown passes to much-maligned TE Ben Watson. Brady has ALWAYS spread the wealth among his receivers. Perhaps he does it a little less than he used to, with Moss in the fold, but he won 3 Super Bowls spreading the ball around a lot.

The defense will always give you something, and the smart coordinator finds the opportunity, rather than banging his head against a wall.

 

[Fish-Head]

Look, I'm not saying the Trifecta is a failed experiment. Nor am I saying Sparano is a bad coach.

What I am saying [or meaning] is that the Trifecta needs to be accountable beyond themselves. BLIND spots are a deadly thing in a world where yesterday's innovation is today's road kill.

If the Trifecta makes a bad personnel decision, it needs to be acknowledged and accounted for. If Sparano makes bonehead drafting and coaching AND salary accomodations, it needs to be acknowledged and answered for...

NOT a bunch of blind lemmings saying, "You are the greatest and we cannot question you, sir!" "Give me another bruise, sir!"

Right now there are potentially huge failures of strategy and tactics [personnel and drafting] that need to be honestly assessed and answered for... the wildcat covered a multitude of sins last year -- primarily on OL and QB -- lesser on WR -- and these huge weaknesses seem not to have been addressed.

I'm NOT saying fire Sparano and jettison the Trifecta. I am saying it ain't all adding up in football terms. Question everything. Demand accountability. And get more from those paid huge salaries to put a playoff WINNER on the table NOW. Parcells and Sparano rejected the claim that this is rebuilding... then went out and made it a rebuilding year with key personnel moves and calculated non-moves, specifically at skill positions.

When Cam Cameron has a better chance of winning a SB this year than the Phins, something is wrong, imo.

IMVHO, of course! :-)

LD

if you want to question the TriFecta then most certainly you got a point... There is ALOT there to question... Actually THAT IS EXACTLY THE POINT because to Hang EVERYTHING on Penny just ain't seeing the whole picture...

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I don't agree with Armando. First, he mentions guys like Clayton, Moss, Jerry Rice and Adrian Peterson as guys who have to get the ball, regardless of what the defense is doing. Agreed, but we don't have anyone whose name should be mentioned in the same breath with those guys. While our "playmakers" have had their moments, I haven't seen any evidence that Ronnie, Ricky (in the past 2 years) or Ginn can be effective when the defense is keying on them. Unfortunately, living in the Boston area I see the Pats more than the Dolphins. Armando's example of Brady and Moss is off-base. Brady and the Pats have been extremely successful taking what the defense gives them. Randy Moss is one of the greatest receivers in the history of the game, but they don't try to go deep to him if the defense is taking that away. Instead, they will have a field day with short passes to Welker and Faulk. When he's passing, Brady always looks for the single coverage opportunity. Monday's game was won with two touchdown passes to much-maligned TE Ben Watson. Brady has ALWAYS spread the wealth among his receivers. Perhaps he does it a little less than he used to, with Moss in the fold, but he won 3 Super Bowls spreading the ball around a lot.

The defense will always give you something, and the smart coordinator finds the opportunity, rather than banging his head against a wall.

Here's a thought....why do guys like AD, Rice, Moss, Clayton, etc...HAVE to get the ball no matter what the defense is doing? Hmmm?

Because they're the type of players that you KNOW are going to show up every week.....(the defense has to prepare and play that way)....as opposed to HOPING one of your different role players can do it at random from week to week....

With Brady and Moss...a defense is FORCED to give you something...that is correct....except the OFFENSE dictates which one that is...

The defense has a choice...die slow...or die fast...I know great options right...lol

When you have no playmaker you can count on every week...and you don't have the explosive play in your repertiore.....you're forced to then do what....run the ball...don't turn it over...dink and dunk...control the clock...eat a sandwich...read a book..etc...

Why doesn't Miami have any of these "playmakers"?

It's a lot easier to control an offenses output when they already pulled the choke themselves....

 

[abNORMal]

Armando get's hennings response to his article...

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/

I think Ricky has proven before that he IS/WAS a big "star" in this league and Ronnie, if given the opportunity COULD be a big star in the NFL. I read up to the part where Henning says he spreads it around because there is no real star and stopped, Because it could also be reasonable to say that, no real stars have been developed because we spread it around so much, instead of depending on players like Ronnie, that have "star" potential, but will never prove it if he doesn't get enough touches in the games!!! I guess I feel that stars are developed and not born!! I know that the player has to have a special "something" to be a star, but sometimes maybe it takes good coaching to bring it out in them...

 

[Fish-Head]

Here's a thought....why do guys like AD, Rice, Moss, Clayton, etc...HAVE to get the ball no matter what the defense is doing? Hmmm?

Because they're the type of players that you KNOW are going to show up every week.....(the defense has to prepare and play that way)....as opposed to HOPING one of your different role players can do it at random from week to week....

With Brady and Moss...a defense is FORCED to give you something...that is correct....except the OFFENSE dictates which one that is...

The defense has a choice...die slow...or die fast...I know great options right...lol

When you have no playmaker you can count on every week...and you don't have the explosive play in your repertiore.....you're forced to then do what....run the ball...don't turn it over...dink and dunk...control the clock...eat a sandwich...read a book..etc...

Why doesn't Miami have any of these "playmakers"?

It's a lot easier to control an offenses output when they already pulled the choke themselves....

Question:

What would be the VERY definition of an offense that is easy to stop???

Answer:

That would be the offense with only one guy to stop.

Let's also forget that these guys might be human and have a bad day... or that football is a violent sport and that if your ONE guy gets hurt... and on and on... Ad infinitum.

Your move Slimm.

 

[Canadianfishfan]

I don't agree with Armando. First, he mentions guys like Clayton, Moss, Jerry Rice and Adrian Peterson as guys who have to get the ball, regardless of what the defense is doing. Agreed, but we don't have anyone whose name should be mentioned in the same breath with those guys. While our "playmakers" have had their moments, I haven't seen any evidence that Ronnie, Ricky (in the past 2 years) or Ginn can be effective when the defense is keying on them. Unfortunately, living in the Boston area I see the Pats more than the Dolphins. Armando's example of Brady and Moss is off-base. Brady and the Pats have been extremely successful taking what the defense gives them. Randy Moss is one of the greatest receivers in the history of the game, but they don't try to go deep to him if the defense is taking that away. Instead, they will have a field day with short passes to Welker and Faulk. When he's passing, Brady always looks for the single coverage opportunity. Monday's game was won with two touchdown passes to much-maligned TE Ben Watson. Brady has ALWAYS spread the wealth among his receivers. Perhaps he does it a little less than he used to, with Moss in the fold, but he won 3 Super Bowls spreading the ball around a lot.

The defense will always give you something, and the smart coordinator finds the opportunity, rather than banging his head against a wall.

Exactly.. Dinking and dunking moves the chains. Moving the chains puts you in position to score, and control the clock. That's winning football.

I don't care how we win.. as long as we win.. and I certainly don't care if any of our games appear on ESPN highlight reels.

Granted it's the easiest thing to do to complain when we don't win.

Far too easy.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Question:

What would be the VERY definition of an offense that is easy to stop???

Answer:

That would be the offense with only one guy to stop.

Let's also forget that these guys might be human and have a bad day... or that football is a violent sport and that if your ONE guy gets hurt... and on and on... Ad infinitum.

Your move Slimm.

Well yeah if you only send 1 guy out there on offense.....you're pretty much ****ed...

Unless of course.....that guy is Chad Cantbestoppedington....

 

[Fish-Head]

Well yeah if you only send 1 guy out there on offense.....you're pretty much ****ed...

Unless of course.....that guy is Chad Cantbestoppedington....

Well hang on, just a sec... If you are sending out Chad is a monsterington all by his lonesome...

That will give you 10 more to put in the box am I right? Since That is the 'gauranteed' way to stop him... remember... "stack in the box' = stop the Chad.

So let me see that brings the official tally of the number of men in the box to 948...

Not including Hector the dude selling Footlongs in section 'D'...

 

[phintim]

That's really not true, objectively. The only "get open quicker" Bess does is junk near the LOS. It takes Bess shorter time to run 5 yards than it does for Ginn to run 20 plus, yeah... but the "get open quicker" stuff is a copout. And it totally covers up the fact that if Bess tried to run a legit route down the field he'd take WAY longer than Ginn to get open -- and maybe never at all.

The only way a person can make a statement like that is never having had the pleasure of watching Bess try to get open down the field against man coverage... or watch him try to run real WR routes in the red zone, manned up. Ain't happenin'

LD

You know you are correct Bess cannot run down the sideline as quick as Bess. Ginn will not take the hit Bess will or catch the ball in heavy traffic like Bess can in the middle of the field. Ginn will catch the ball now and then on a slant route but not often. On the other hand Bess will catch the ball on a real WR route but not often. Bess did it last year when Greg C went down.
What we are missing is a true compliment ot Ginn on the other side. Greg C is scappy but brings alot more of Bess brings to the table than what Ginn does.
The Trifeccta knows this which is why they picked up Turner and Hartline this year.
I am not convinced yet Hartline is the answer opposite Ginn but he is probably a much better match than Greg C.
IF Chad P had a great arm you might see 1-3 more catches by Ginn per game out of proably 4-6 pass attempts. Not really that much a advantage in itself but if it opened up the running game then that would be huge.
Our fire power is our RBS and should be our OL. Something to this point is missing.
Granted we have 2 new OL but we still have the same RBS and 3 of the OL returning.
There have been many teams do more with less than that.

Still there is a new OL coach to take into consideration but he and the special teams coach have better get it together. The special teams guy has had a enough time and the OL has the talent.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Well hang on, just a sec... If you are sending out Chad is a monsterington all by his lonesome...

That will give you 10 more to put in the box am I right? Since That is the 'gauranteed' way to stop him... remember... "stack in the box' = stop the Chad.

So let me see that brings the official tally of the number of men in the box to 948...

Not including Hector the dude selling Footlongs in section 'D'...

The number of guys you stack in the box is irrelevant....Chad Justgotbaitedagainington's off the charts intangibles will telepathically paralyze them....allowing Miami to control the clock...

Long enough so that patriot missile in pads wearing #19 to launch down the sidelines so Chad Underthrewhimton's pass can fall harmlessly to the turf....

No turnover....mission accomplished...

 

[LDaniel7]

The number of guys you stack in the box is irrelevant....Chad Justgotbaitedagainington's off the charts intangibles will telepathically paralyze them....allowing Miami to control the clock...

Long enough so that patriot missile in pads wearing #19 to launch down the sidelines so Chad Underthrewhimton's pass can fall harmlessly to the turf....

No turnover....mission accomplished...

That's some funny stuff, lol.

Thanks for the laugh,

LD