Article absolutely KILLING Chambers

[EightyTwenty]

yeah or maybe Gus's drastic improvement and the pickup of our running game catapulted Chambers. Makes more sense to me than...."turning it on." I swear some people think football is a 1 man sport and we can just judge one player by himself. How on earth does a QB have nothing to do with a WR..... ??? Yah sure, he "turned it on".... it didnt have anything to do with anything else... he became 3 times better overnight. According to that logic.... Chris is running around right now with "it" purposely "turned off." I don't believe that one bit.

"Turning it on" for purposes of this discussion primarily means "holding on to the football when it hits you right in the hands". Just in case you've missed that tiny little problem he's had over his career, which it seems you may have...

 

[HybridPHIN 23]

"Turning it on" for purposes of this discussion primarily means "holding on to the football when it hits you right in the hands". Just in case you've missed that tiny little problem he's had over his career, which it seems you may have...

So it's just a coinsidence that Chris started catching more balls and producing way more at the same time that our running game thrived and Gus managed games well ????... I don't believe the small decrease in drops was very much or at all responsible for his explosion late last year. And ofcourse the reason the drops cut down was because of the running game and Gus as much as it was Chris holding onto the ball. When our offense is doin well everyone is "ooohing and ahhhhing" Chambers and when the offense is struggling ( all this season ) everyone is on his back.

 

[bluehaze]

Nice way to dodge the actual question! You should work for thinktanks! YOU SAID that Chambers #s are only good for #2 or#3 receivers. I said they are decent #1 receiver stats. You bring up stats for receivers I deem to be elite, and I declare Chambers is not elite yet, but he is a solid #1. THis is in response to your very own comments and when called on them you bring up other irrelevent arguments.

I answered your question several times in this thread, Sorry but I am not going to continue to retype the same responses for you simply because you are too lazy too read the entire thread for yourself.

Forget Steve Smith Chad Johnson TO Marvin and Holt for a second. Those are elite receivers, better then Chambers. I don't deny that. Now go back and look at the teams I mentioned, with no #1 better then Chambers. Their QBs are arguably better then ours, yet Chambers puts up better numbers. This is in direct response to your very own comments. Please respond.

Please show me where Chambers puts up better numbers, I've done a fair amount of research to support my claims yet you provide no supporting evidence to back your claims. If you want to debate this your going to have to do better than just stating Chambers puts up better numbers.

To address your point though, regarding elite players. Plaxico Burress had 46% caught last year according to that link. So is Chambers still the worst? Is Plaxico worse? Is Plaxico not a #1 then? And there are several in the low 50s percentage wise. Is this that much worse then 49%? Booker had 45% last year. Hmmm, Gus Frerotte who was inaccurate both short and long, Booker had a low percentage caught. Joey is more accurate short and horrible long, Booker average goes up. Coincidence? Or a good reflection on the QB throwing it to them?.

Plaxico Burress reminds me very much of Chris Chambers the guy has talent but is a lackadaisical reciever that only puts up big numbers when he's called out in the media.

Oh and let me bring up an example of how useless that percentage caught number is. Jaguar game. Joey's two interceptions. One was thrown with a defender in FRONT of Chambers. Whether or not Chambers ran the wrong route, or was jammed, is irrelevant, the QB makes a read and Joey admits should have thrown it out the back of the endzone. Second touchdown, vastly underthrown. Both passes, which Chambers never had a chance to catch, is counted towards Chambers. That's ridiculous. To eliminate the QB variable, give us numbers of catchable passes and passes dropped. I'm not saying this will bump up Chambers into elite status, but it is more accurate reflection of Chambers performance while eliminating QB's throws to the feet or out of bounds. Anything else is almost useless.

Well first of all, a reciever runing the wrong route will very often lead to an interception thrown by the QB and Chris Chambers himself states that he runs the wrong routes. You already know this though I've pointed it out to you several times but here you go once again:

``There were a couple of red-zone shots that I didn't take advantage of by maybe running the wrong route, particularly in the beginning of the game.''

''It was a baseline route, where I was supposed to get inside of [cornerback Rashean] Mathis,'' Chambers said. ``But I got jammed up, and he got inside of me, and Joey threw to that side. I think the fault was more on me than on Joey Harrington on that play.''

Note: Chambers immediately got chewed out by Saban after this play not Harrington.

The point you fail to see is that that percentage caught remains a constant accross every reciever in the league. They all have to subject themselves to poorly thrown passes, interceptions etc... yet they come out better than Chambers consistently week after week.

Here is a perfect example in the Lions Pats game Kitna threw 3 interceptions, I believe only 1 of them was intended for Furrey not all three regardless Kitna performed worse than Harrington in this game (60.6 QB Rating) yet Mike Furrey still performed better than Chambers here are the numbers:

Mike Furrey 12 ATT 9 Catches 123 Yards 1TD
Chris Chambers 15 Att 8 Catches 121 Yards 0TD

This is Mike Furrey we are talking about here and Kitna as his QB....no Carson Palmer to Chad Johnson nor Delhomme to Steve Smith etc...

If you want to debate this please support your argument with facts...simply stating Chambers puts up better numbers than others is not a very convincing argument.

 

[EightyTwenty]

I answered your question several times in this thread, Sorry but I am not going to continue to retype the same responses for you simply because you are too lazy too read the entire thread for yourself.



Please show me where Chambers puts up better numbers, I've done a fair amount of research to support my claims yet you provide no supporting evidence to back your claims. If you want to debate this your going to have to do better than just stating Chambers puts up better numbers.




Plaxico Burress reminds me very much of Chris Chambers the guy has talent but is a lackadaisical reciever that only puts up big numbers when he's called out in the media.



Well first of all, a reciever runing the wrong route will very often lead to an interception thrown by the QB and Chris Chambers himself states that he runs the wrong routes. You already know this though I've pointed it out to you several times but here you go once again:

``There were a couple of red-zone shots that I didn't take advantage of by maybe running the wrong route, particularly in the beginning of the game.''

''It was a baseline route, where I was supposed to get inside of [cornerback Rashean] Mathis,'' Chambers said. ``But I got jammed up, and he got inside of me, and Joey threw to that side. I think the fault was more on me than on Joey Harrington on that play.''

Note: Chambers immediately got chewed out by Saban after this play not Harrington.

The point you fail to see is that that percentage caught remains a constant accross every reciever in the league. They all have to subject themselves to poorly thrown passes, interceptions etc... yet they come out better than Chambers consistently week after week.

Here is a perfect example in the Lions Pats game Kitna threw 3 interceptions, I believe only 1 of them was intended for Furrey not all three regardless Kitna performed worse than Harrington in this game (60.6 QB Rating) yet Mike Furrey still performed better than Chambers here are the numbers:

Mike Furrey 12 ATT 9 Catches 123 Yards 1TD
Chris Chambers 15 Att 8 Catches 121 Yards 0TD

This is Mike Furrey we are talking about here and Kitna as his QB....no Carson Palmer to Chad Johnson nor Delhomme to Steve Smith etc...

If you want to debate this please support your argument with facts...simply stating Chambers puts up better numbers than others is not a very convincing argument.

This is a very good post.

Unfortunately, some of the forum members have locked onto Chambers as being much better than he really is, and you will find yourself talking to brick walls (as I have).

 

[Disnardo]

Kind of Long, Enterntaining and Somewhat Truthfull...

I think you answered it right there, 5 or 6 QBs. Doesn't everyone, including you, talk about developing a rythym with their QB?

If you ever read on Chambers College (Wisonsin) biography and draft report, you would see that he has had the same inconsistancy, disappearing for games, drops, bad route running and at times excellent games. Yes playing with the same QB, HC, OC and Offensive personnel for 4 years...So his performance has not changed after 10 years (4 college and 6 NFL)...

And you say his numbers are respectable for #2 or #3 receivers, yes this year but his numbers are respectable for non-elite WRs. Who does NE have as their #1? San Diego? Ravens? How much better were Hines Ward's stats last year during their superbowl run? How much less then Chambers. How about Jacksonville? How about Eagles during their 4 playoff runs and this year? Who on the Seattle Seahawks team last year that most argue should have won the Super Bowl has better or is better then Chambers?

Oh, and might I add ... Philip Rivers (and brees before him), Steve McNair, Ben Roethlisberger, Leftwich/Garrard, Donovan McNabb, Hasselbeck. Those are the QBs for teams with receivers that you cannot say are better then Chambers, stats wise (which YOU brought up, not me). Oh and all playoff contenders this year or the referenced year.

Well, if you want to show equality between WR stats, lets see and compare how those WR listed above and playing with their QBs would have performed if they had the same number of chances as Chambers has had so far this year...

Chambers has had the ball thrown to him 122 times period...Let's show how these others with the same number of throws like Chris had... I don't want to hear the QB or OL excuses afterward...times is ticking....lets sweat a little...

Brady (NE) to Caldwell (60% comp) 920 yds and 12.5 YPC...
Chambers (43% comp) 611 yds and 5.00 YPC...

Rivers (SD) to Parker (69% comp) 1,131 yds and 12.3 YPC...
Rivers to Mc Cardell (71% comp) 921 yds and 13.3 YPC...
Chambers (43% comp) 611 yds and 5.00 YPC)...

McNair (Balt) to Clayton (58%) 881 Yds, and 12.5 YPC...
MacNair to Mason (61%) 853 yds and 11.5 YPC...
Chambers (43%) 611 yds and 5.00 YPC...
...................................................................................
Hines Ward (in 2005 61% comp), if he would have had the same number of throws like Chris had in 2005 (166 chances), would have had 1,420 yds and 14.1 YPC... Chris had (49% comp) 1,118 yds and 13.6 YPC in 2005...

Current year (2006), Jac (with 122 chances like Chris)...
Leftwich and Gerrard (Jac) to Jones (48% comp) 1,198 yds and 16.1 YPC...
Leftwich and Gerrard to Wilford (48% comp) 866 yds and 7.96 YPC...
Chambers (43% comp) 611 yds and 5.00 YPC...
.................................................................................
Philli with McNabb from 2000-2004, (using same 166 chances like Chris in 2005), comparing to Chris's Pro Bowl Year...

2000- C. Johnson (56% comp) 1,065 yds and 11.5 YPC...
2000- T. Small (43% comp) 1,004 yds and 14.2 YPC...
2001- Pinkston (50% comp) 1,158 yds and 14.0 YPC...
2001- Thrash (58% comp) 1,193 yds and 13.2 YPC...
2002- Pinkston (53% comp) 1,172 yds and 13.3 YPC...
2002- Thrash ( 44% comp) 985 yds and 12.2 YPC...
2003- Thrash (53% comp) 1,007 yds and 11.4 YPC...
2003- Pinkston (42% comp) 1,123 yds and 16.0 YPC...
2004- Owens (61% comp) 1,571 yds and 15.6 YPC...
2004- Pinkston (57% comp) 1,781 yds and 18.8 YPC...

Seattle with Hasselbeck (same 166 chances)...
2005- Jurevicius (65% comp) 1,371 yds and 12.6 YPC...
2005- Jackson (69% comp) 1,455 yds and 12.7 YPC...
2005- Engram (69% comp) 1,331 yds and 11.6 YPC...

Pit with Big Ben (same 166 chances)...
2005- Ward (61% comp) 1,420 yds and 14.1 YPC...
2005- Randle-El (50% comp) 1,323 yds and 14.1 YPC...

2005- Chris (49% comp) 1,118 yds and 13.6 YPC...

They look very similar, granted most look better than Chris's in his Pro Bowl year don't they...funny how things look when we try to compare them "apples to apples"...

Our problems start with QB and O-Line play, I believe.

Well we can all dream can we...but I have to respect your opinion...:D

 

[bluehaze]

If you ever read on Chambers College (Wisonsin) biography and draft report, you would see that he has had the same inconsistancy, disappearing for games, drops, bad route running and at times excellent games. Yes playing with the same QB, HC, OC and Offensive personnel for 4 years...So his performance has not changed after 10 years (4 college and 6 NFL)...




Well, if you want to show equality between WR stats, lets see and compare how those WR listed above and playing with their QBs would have performed if they had the same number of chances as Chambers has had so far this year...

Chambers has had the ball thrown to him 122 times period...Let's show how these others with the same number of throws like Chris had... I don't want to hear the QB or OL excuses afterward...times is ticking....lets sweat a little...

Brady (NE) to Caldwell (60% comp) 920 yds and 12.5 YPC...
Chambers (43% comp) 611 yds and 5.00 YPC...

Rivers (SD) to Parker (69% comp) 1,131 yds and 12.3 YPC...
Rivers to Mc Cardell (71% comp) 921 yds and 13.3 YPC...
Chambers (43% comp) 611 yds and 5.00 YPC)...

McNair (Balt) to Clayton (58%) 881 Yds, and 12.5 YPC...
MacNair to Mason (61%) 853 yds and 11.5 YPC...
Chambers (43%) 611 yds and 5.00 YPC...
...................................................................................
Hines Ward (in 2005 61% comp), if he would have had the same number of throws like Chris had in 2005 (166 chances), would have had 1,420 yds and 14.1 YPC... Chris had (49% comp) 1,118 yds and 13.6 YPC in 2005...

Current year (2006), Jac (with 122 chances like Chris)...
Leftwich and Gerrard (Jac) to Jones (48% comp) 1,198 yds and 16.1 YPC...
Leftwich and Gerrard to Wilford (48% comp) 866 yds and 7.96 YPC...
Chambers (43% comp) 611 yds and 5.00 YPC...
.................................................................................
Philli with McNabb from 2000-2004, (using same 166 chances like Chris in 2005), comparing to Chris's Pro Bowl Year...

2000- C. Johnson (56% comp) 1,065 yds and 11.5 YPC...
2000- T. Small (43% comp) 1,004 yds and 14.2 YPC...
2001- Pinkston (50% comp) 1,158 yds and 14.0 YPC...
2001- Thrash (58% comp) 1,193 yds and 13.2 YPC...
2002- Pinkston (53% comp) 1,172 yds and 13.3 YPC...
2002- Thrash ( 44% comp) 985 yds and 12.2 YPC...
2003- Thrash (53% comp) 1,007 yds and 11.4 YPC...
2003- Pinkston (42% comp) 1,123 yds and 16.0 YPC...
2004- Owens (61% comp) 1,571 yds and 15.6 YPC...
2004- Pinkston (57% comp) 1,781 yds and 18.8 YPC...

Seattle with Hasselbeck (same 166 chances)...
2005- Jurevicius (65% comp) 1,371 yds and 12.6 YPC...
2005- Jackson (69% comp) 1,455 yds and 12.7 YPC...
2005- Engram (69% comp) 1,331 yds and 11.6 YPC...

Pit with Big Ben (same 166 chances)...
2005- Ward (61% comp) 1,420 yds and 14.1 YPC...
2005- Randle-El (50% comp) 1,323 yds and 14.1 YPC...

2005- Chris (49% comp) 1,118 yds and 13.6 YPC...

They look very similar, granted most look better than Chris's in his Pro Bowl year don't they...funny how things look when we try to compare them "apples to apples"...

Well we can all dream can we...but I have to respect your opinion...:D

Very nice post Dis! you have much more patience than myself to take the time to figure all these stats. I enjoy reading your posts and respect your opinion very much, always backed up with factual information to support your claim. I wish more of the posters on this board we're like yourself!

Cheers mate!

 

[Disnardo]

Very nice post Dis! you have much more patience than myself to take the time to figure all these stats. I enjoy reading your posts and respect your opinion very much, always backed up with factual information to support your claim. I wish more of the posters on this board we're like yourself!

Cheers mate!

Well thank you BH, nice of you to say so...I don't know if all my post are backed by facts...specially when stats don't always tell all the story, but sometimes it kind of puts things in perspective...and that is why I only post here at FH...where IMHO, the best fans are...

 

[GoonBoss]

Tons of talent in this big well.......

He could rule the fotball worl, but, he can't catch the easy ones.

 

[jdang307]

I answered your question several times in this thread, Sorry but I am not going to continue to retype the same responses for you simply because you are too lazy too read the entire thread for yourself.

You haven't answered anything since I showed you several playoff caliber teams that do not have a #1 receiver who puts up better numbers then Chambers. The list is there for you to see. Since you will not answer it, which ISN"T even my question it was your statement that I was rebutting.

Please show me where Chambers puts up better numbers, I've done a fair amount of research to support my claims yet you provide no supporting evidence to back your claims. If you want to debate this your going to have to do better than just stating Chambers puts up better numbers.

I said New England this year:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/nwe/stats
Ravens
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/bal/stats
Hines Ward during 2005 - 69 catches, 957 yards, 11 TDs. Better then Chambers?
Jax, nobody over 500 yards.
San Diego, one of the best offenses this year, top WR with 547 yards, Top WR has 3 TDs.
Seattle in 2005, nobody over 1000 yards, nobody with at least 10 TDs.

ANd you are saying Chamber's numbers are not decent enough for a #1 WR, I'm saying they are. They're not steve smith chad johnson Torry Holt numbers, no. Of course not. I wish they were. But they are solid #1 numbers, and I'll be damned if the #1's on the teams I listed aren't worse receivers yet their respective teams are doing damn well. My point is we are focusing so so much on Chambers but one key item each of those teams has over us is good QB play.

Plaxico Burress reminds me very much of Chris Chambers the guy has talent but is a lackadaisical reciever that only puts up big numbers when he's called out in the media.

Hey I'm not going to argue with that. However Chambers has never been called out in the media that I can recall except the last few weeks. Plaxico on the other hand ... I'd rather keep chambers then plaxico.

Well first of all, a reciever runing the wrong route will very often lead to an interception thrown by the QB and Chris Chambers himself states that he runs the wrong routes. You already know this though I've pointed it out to you several times but here you go once again:

If the QB recognizes the wrong route, he shouldn't throw it. REceivers fault for running the wrong route of course. NOt sure what we're arguing here.

``There were a couple of red-zone shots that I didn't take advantage of by maybe running the wrong route, particularly in the beginning of the game.''

''It was a baseline route, where I was supposed to get inside of [cornerback Rashean] Mathis,'' Chambers said. ``But I got jammed up, and he got inside of me, and Joey threw to that side. I think the fault was more on me than on Joey Harrington on that play.''

Man you are kind of thickheaded aren't you? Lemme paraphrase. "I ran the wrong route on a couple of plays, I got jammed on the one Joey threw an INT." Getting jammed and running the wrong route are not the same thing. Your reading comprehension is Joey glasses are puzzling me right now.

Note: Chambers immediately got chewed out by Saban after this play not Harrington.

Did he? Well maybe he did, for gettign Jammed he shouldn't have.

The point you fail to see is that that percentage caught remains a constant accross every reciever in the league. They all have to subject themselves to poorly thrown passes, interceptions etc... yet they come out better than Chambers consistently week after week.

Are you saying that all QB's throw the same amount of poor throws and interceptions? Is that what you are saying? You're kidding me right? Does anyone watch any football? Tony Romo, who completes 67% of his passes, and I'll be damned if I see too many overthrows and throwaways from him as I do from Joey. And that directly influences %'s caught. Look I'm not arguing that Chambers is elite, for the fiftieth time. I'm just saying look at the person throwing the balls then look at the drop balls from Chambers.

Here is a perfect example in the Lions Pats game Kitna threw 3 interceptions, I believe only 1 of them was intended for Furrey not all three regardless Kitna performed worse than Harrington in this game (60.6 QB Rating) yet Mike Furrey still performed better than Chambers here are the numbers:

Mike Furrey 12 ATT 9 Catches 123 Yards 1TD
Chris Chambers 15 Att 8 Catches 121 Yards 0TD

This is Mike Furrey we are talking about here and Kitna as his QB....no Carson Palmer to Chad Johnson nor Delhomme to Steve Smith etc...

If you want to debate this please support your argument with facts...simply stating Chambers puts up better numbers than others is not a very convincing argument.

Look, we keep focusing on different statistics to rate WR's, and I'm not sure we're going to see eye to eye, ever. You point out passes caught % as a good measure of the WR. And I can point out a fallacy to that. If a QB severely underthrows or overthrows a receiver, that incompletion affects the WR's % caught numbers, but how is that an accurate reflection of the WR? How? If a pass intended for a WR is tipped at the line of scrimmage and goes NOWHERE near the intended WR, how is that an accurate reflection of the WR? If the QB throws the ball while scrambling to the line of scrimmage out of bounds to avoid a sack and an intentional grounding, how is that an accurate reflection of the WR?

In my opinion Chambers has suffered the worst this year compared to everyone else, simply because Joey sucks at the long ball. There's no ifs and buts around it. Booker had worse passes caught last year then this percentage wise, did he magically get better? No the % caught IMO is a useful statistic but not to directly rate a WR. In my opinion the statistic that should be used is catchable passes caught or dropped. Period.

 

[miamirick]

Unfortunately, there isn't a thing in that article that I disagree with and the author backs up every one of his arguements with stats....The fact is, Chambers just isn't very good....and IMO, has never been the same since getting his lights turned off a few years back against Denver (The same game that Fiedler went down with the thumb injury).

 

[jdang307]

If you ever read on Chambers College (Wisonsin) biography and draft report, you would see that he has had the same inconsistancy, disappearing for games, drops, bad route running and at times excellent games. Yes playing with the same QB, HC, OC and Offensive personnel for 4 years...So his performance has not changed after 10 years (4 college and 6 NFL)...




Well, if you want to show equality between WR stats, lets see and compare how those WR listed above and playing with their QBs would have performed if they had the same number of chances as Chambers has had so far this year...

Chambers has had the ball thrown to him 122 times period...Let's show how these others with the same number of throws like Chris had... I don't want to hear the QB or OL excuses afterward...times is ticking....lets sweat a little...

Brady (NE) to Caldwell (60% comp) 920 yds and 12.5 YPC...
Chambers (43% comp) 611 yds and 5.00 YPC...

Rivers (SD) to Parker (69% comp) 1,131 yds and 12.3 YPC...
Rivers to Mc Cardell (71% comp) 921 yds and 13.3 YPC...
Chambers (43% comp) 611 yds and 5.00 YPC)...

McNair (Balt) to Clayton (58%) 881 Yds, and 12.5 YPC...
MacNair to Mason (61%) 853 yds and 11.5 YPC...
Chambers (43%) 611 yds and 5.00 YPC...
...................................................................................
Hines Ward (in 2005 61% comp), if he would have had the same number of throws like Chris had in 2005 (166 chances), would have had 1,420 yds and 14.1 YPC... Chris had (49% comp) 1,118 yds and 13.6 YPC in 2005...

Current year (2006), Jac (with 122 chances like Chris)...
Leftwich and Gerrard (Jac) to Jones (48% comp) 1,198 yds and 16.1 YPC...
Leftwich and Gerrard to Wilford (48% comp) 866 yds and 7.96 YPC...
Chambers (43% comp) 611 yds and 5.00 YPC...
.................................................................................
Philli with McNabb from 2000-2004, (using same 166 chances like Chris in 2005), comparing to Chris's Pro Bowl Year...

2000- C. Johnson (56% comp) 1,065 yds and 11.5 YPC...
2000- T. Small (43% comp) 1,004 yds and 14.2 YPC...
2001- Pinkston (50% comp) 1,158 yds and 14.0 YPC...
2001- Thrash (58% comp) 1,193 yds and 13.2 YPC...
2002- Pinkston (53% comp) 1,172 yds and 13.3 YPC...
2002- Thrash ( 44% comp) 985 yds and 12.2 YPC...
2003- Thrash (53% comp) 1,007 yds and 11.4 YPC...
2003- Pinkston (42% comp) 1,123 yds and 16.0 YPC...
2004- Owens (61% comp) 1,571 yds and 15.6 YPC...
2004- Pinkston (57% comp) 1,781 yds and 18.8 YPC...

Seattle with Hasselbeck (same 166 chances)...
2005- Jurevicius (65% comp) 1,371 yds and 12.6 YPC...
2005- Jackson (69% comp) 1,455 yds and 12.7 YPC...
2005- Engram (69% comp) 1,331 yds and 11.6 YPC...

Pit with Big Ben (same 166 chances)...
2005- Ward (61% comp) 1,420 yds and 14.1 YPC...
2005- Randle-El (50% comp) 1,323 yds and 14.1 YPC...

2005- Chris (49% comp) 1,118 yds and 13.6 YPC...

They look very similar, granted most look better than Chris's in his Pro Bowl year don't they...funny how things look when we try to compare them "apples to apples"...

Well we can all dream can we...but I have to respect your opinion...:D

I see you put in a lot of work but lemme get this straight, are you extrapolating numbers to match CC's? Hey if you think that's a valid comparison then by all means knock yourself out. I think there are some glaring deficiencies in doing so, just look at Philadelphia in 2004, if you go and extrapolate then it says Pinkston with the same amount of chances would have outgained Terrell Owens and nobody in their right mind would say Pinkston is better then Owens. And also if the QB only looks the receivers a few times during the game on long yardage situation or deep passes, well the extrapolation will only exemplify this (since you're taking a high ypc and multiplying it), a la pinkston and maybe Ashly Lelie last year or the year before (I forget).

Even saying so, I think you're numbers prove me right. Chambers is not a bad #1. He's not elite, but he's definitely not #2 or #3. If we had an elite #1 and Chambers got bumped, would I cry? Oh hell no, you will never ever see my cry if a better player can be had. If we picked up Calvin Johnson and he was outplaying Chambers, bump him down hell yes! Chambers is my man but the Dolphins are my team! I'm just defending him because I think the blame is unfairly put on him this year when our QB play starting from Daunte to Culpepper was lacking. I mean look at his numbers last year, look at Philadelphia's to 2005 that you extrapolated. They're not that bad, even extrapolated. And they had McNabb. WE HAD FREROTTE! Imagine the numbers with another QB! Brady, Hasselbeck, Rivers, McNair, Garrard, safe to say I would love to have any of those on our team right now! Wouldn't you? The only team I see getting consistent WR numbers with carousel or crappy QBs are Arizona, those two are amazing I must admit.

Anyways, I'm sick, just took two capfuls of nyquil and I'm rambling, so we can leave it at that. My opinion is above, i.e. Chambers is not Elite, yes. Is he horrible? No. Fix the O-line, fix the QB play, and I can almost guarantee our WR numbers and offense will improve. I'm just saying the focus should be there.

 

[Bumrush]

yeah or maybe Gus's drastic improvement and the pickup of our running game catapulted Chambers. Makes more sense to me than...."turning it on." I swear some people think football is a 1 man sport and we can just judge one player by himself. How on earth does a QB have nothing to do with a WR..... ??? Yah sure, he "turned it on".... it didnt have anything to do with anything else... he became 3 times better overnight. According to that logic.... Chris is running around right now with "it" purposely "turned off." I don't believe that one bit.

LOL. Man you Chambers homers are so off base in your delusions of his greatness and your scapegoating of everyone else when it comes to his play.

FACT: Chris Chambers made the Pro Bowl because of ONE good quarter against Buffalo, the SAME game where he dropped at least 3 or 4 wide open passes that could have easily cost us the game. Most of those drops happened on third down, killing drives. Even when he is at his best he drops critical passes at critical times. Watch his breakout game from last year and you will see dropped passes.

Ferrote did not go from a journeyman QB in the NFL to a suddenly accurate all star QB. Chambers had a fire lit under his *** and played like his overpaid contract was at stake. Fast forward to 2006 and even with the ALL PRO Cpep, Chambers starts the season a NO SHOW essentially showing complacency as our season collapsed.

 

[Disnardo]

And you say his numbers are respectable for #2 or #3 receivers, yes this year but his numbers are respectable for non-elite WRs. Who does NE have as their #1? San Diego? Ravens? How much better were Hines Ward's stats last year during their superbowl run? How much less then Chambers. How about Jacksonville? How about Eagles during their 4 playoff runs and this year? Who on the Seattle Seahawks team last year that most argue should have won the Super Bowl has better or is better then Chambers?

Oh, and might I add ... Philip Rivers (and brees before him), Steve McNair, Ben Roethlisberger, Leftwich/Garrard, Donovan McNabb, Hasselbeck. Those are the QBs for teams with receivers that you cannot say are better then Chambers, stats wise (which YOU brought up, not me). Oh and all playoff contenders this year or the referenced year.
.

I hope you feel better today...the post answered here and prior post was not made to have WR look like CCs number. I just made it to show that other WR mentioned above never had the amount of chances as CC had...

Given the opportunities by their respected QBs to compare, those WR would have had great numbers, heck many of them would have had better STATS than CC had in 2005. In other words, yes Pinkston would have had an outstanding year averaging 19 YPC if McNabb gave him as many passes as was thrown to Chambers...

Most of those WR I listed in response to your prior post had good to great YPC, similar to Chris...

And that is my point which somehow it being missed, Those WR that you said that never had Chris Chambers Pro-Bowl stats, never had the same opportunities, but if they had, most would have performed better...

 

[miamiron]

I agree that it isn't a big deal or a bad thing that Welker is getting a lot of looks. But in other similar offenses like the Bengals or Colts, their number one gets his looks and he puts up the numbers. I'll conceed that he hasn't played with a good QB yet and that may be affecting him. But it isn't taking away his looks. He is having the ball thrown to him. If the throws were really that bad all the time, wouldn't Welker and Booker have a similar drop %? Booker's is 61% and Welker's is 70%. I do like Chambers. But something is definitely missing.

Whats missing is hands and heart....

 

[HurriPhin]

Ouch, 12 pages of Chambers bashing. Some of you guys are ruthless to make a point in trashing a good Fins WR. :shakeno: