Article: NFL play-calling a challenge for Beck | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Article: NFL play-calling a challenge for Beck

DolfinDave said:
:lol: Yeah weren't those arguments a hoot. I'll gladly boast that I was on the right side of that argument. I don't know what game others were watching. But I certainly wasn't seeing the say QB play they were.

Anyway...I have been wondering about something pertaining to the speed of the game for QBs. Like I said, I've always heard that is a big adjustment for them. Let's take someone like Carson Palmer, who I think is one of the top QBs in the league. He sat on the bench for his first year. I assume that was in order to get the playbook and language down. But that seems like all he would be getting. I don't see how you adjust to the speed unless you are actually in there.

So is that the plan with Beck? Is the plan starting off to just sit him on the bench just like Palmer and let the veteran play the year out? I guess I wouldn't have a problem with that if Cam thinks its vital to his development. But I see a debate coming sometime in the middle of the season pertaining to when Beck should start. That would be an easier debate if we are out of the playoff race early. But I think we have a decent shot at a wildcard spot. Should be interesting to say the least.
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Marvin Lewis pretty much made the decision on Carson sitting the whole year when he drafted him. There was no discussion or debate. Then in his second year Lewis made the decision that Carson would start, before any practices had begun...again, no discussion or debate. He sucked for a good half the year, too.

Carson's more along the kind of QB I actually think could have been successful as a rookie a little bit because he's got some tremendous physical gifts.

Beck is not one of those guys and he's going to have to take a year. Sitting the bench IS a valuable experience though. You're practicing in full pads with everyone, and so you're getting exposure to how fast the game is. You're prepping like a starter each week, which is giving you all kinds of dry runs at what you'd do if you were the starter. And then, you gain absolutely invaluable experience just by watching how the starter handles himself and learning what to do, or maybe what NOT to do, when you get in. That's not just limited to rookies learning, either. Look at Joey Harrington, the boy we love to hate. He watches Daunte go in for four games and get killed behind a leaky offensive line...he sees the coaches fighting with Daunte to try and get him to get the ball out quicker...so he goes in the New England game and what does he do? He gets rid of the ball EXTREMELY quickly.

And for a time it helped the offense have a little better cohesion, but in the long term over the long haul of the season you can't run a passing offense with severe myopia.
 
Isn't that article based on an interview that's over a month old now?
 
dlockz said:
This gym rat thing had little to do with why we took Ginn over Quinn. You can say anything bad you want to about Quinn but he is definately a student of the game.
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Absolutely. It is something the two share in common.
 
ckparrothead said:
Marvin Lewis pretty much made the decision on Carson sitting the whole year when he drafted him. There was no discussion or debate. Then in his second year Lewis made the decision that Carson would start, before any practices had begun...again, no discussion or debate. He sucked for a good half the year, too.

Carson's more along the kind of QB I actually think could have been successful as a rookie a little bit because he's got some tremendous physical gifts.

Beck is not one of those guys and he's going to have to take a year. Sitting the bench IS a valuable experience though. You're practicing in full pads with everyone, and so you're getting exposure to how fast the game is. You're prepping like a starter each week, which is giving you all kinds of dry runs at what you'd do if you were the starter. And then, you gain absolutely invaluable experience just by watching how the starter handles himself and learning what to do, or maybe what NOT to do, when you get in. That's not just limited to rookies learning, either. Look at Joey Harrington, the boy we love to hate. He watches Daunte go in for four games and get killed behind a leaky offensive line...he sees the coaches fighting with Daunte to try and get him to get the ball out quicker...so he goes in the New England game and what does he do? He gets rid of the ball EXTREMELY quickly.

And for a time it helped the offense have a little better cohesion, but in the long term over the long haul of the season you can't run a passing offense with severe myopia.
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And that is why I finally came around on getting Trent Green. He should be a good, if not ideal person to sit behind.

Do you mean that Beck isn't athletically gifted enough, stuff like arm stength and mobility, to play early on? I can understand that. But I would think Quinn would be in a similar boat. He can move around, but I was never all that impressed with his arm strength or accuracy. I'm sure many people up there in Cleveland will be pushing for him to start from day 1. But I see him struggling, especially with a possibly suspect line and the fact that he might hold out.

Back to Palmer, I don't recall very clearly his first year as a starter. I know overall he didn't end up with great numbers. But I remember being impressed with him later in the year and thinking he was really improving. Like you said, he is very gifted physically. So its probably not fair to compare him and Beck. I guess just seeing guys like him and Manning, I don't think a QB really gets it until he actually gets in there, takes some hits, and throws some INTs.
 
DolfinDave said:
And that is why I finally came around on getting Trent Green. He should be a good, if not ideal person to sit behind.

Do you mean that Beck isn't athletically gifted enough, stuff like arm stength and mobility, to play early on? I can understand that. But I would think Quinn would be in a similar boat. He can move around, but I was never all that impressed with his arm strength or accuracy. I'm sure many people up there in Cleveland will be pushing for him to start from day 1. But I see him struggling, especially with a possibly suspect line and the fact that he might hold out.

Back to Palmer, I don't recall very clearly his first year as a starter. I know overall he didn't end up with great numbers. But I remember being impressed with him later in the year and thinking he was really improving. Like you said, he is very gifted physically. So its probably not fair to compare him and Beck. I guess just seeing guys like him and Manning, I don't think a QB really gets it until he actually gets in there, takes some hits, and throws some INTs.
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It isn't that Beck can't cut it physically, he's just not a Dan Marino or Ben Roethlisberger. Those guys came around like once every 30 years. Jamarcus Russell is closer to being one of those guys that John Beck or Brady Quinn...although that doesn't mean that Russell will have the better career.

I wouldn't expect guys like Marc Bulger, Trent Green, Tom Brady, or Drew Brees to have good rookie seasons...but they're building some of the most efficient careers quarterbacks have ever had, so far.
 
ckparrothead said:
It isn't that Beck can't cut it physically, he's just not a Dan Marino or Ben Roethlisberger. Those guys came around like once every 30 years. Jamarcus Russell is closer to being one of those guys that John Beck or Brady Quinn...although that doesn't mean that Russell will have the better career.

I wouldn't expect guys like Marc Bulger, Trent Green, Tom Brady, or Drew Brees to have good rookie seasons...but they're building some of the most efficient careers quarterbacks have ever had, so far.
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I gotcha. And even someone like Peyton Manning needed time.
 
Rilex said:
Though John may not have the physique of your proverbial gym rat, he works out a ton. Unfortunately he doesn’t have the genes necessary to provide the build you would expect from somebody who works out as much as he does. In fact, his brother got all those genes because the kid looks like he’s been chiseled out of marble.
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John Beck= Ten plus years of searching for Dan's replacement. I can honestly say we have found The one. And that didn't happen by accident. It all started with Wayne hiring the right guy for the job (Cam Cameron)and the right GM (Randy Mueller) for the job. It was meant to happen this way. Beck was meant to be our QB. We sent him the play book which he memorized completely within a matter of hours. During his personal work out. Cam, Randy and I believe Bryan played as his receivers. We must of have seen something right there and then..We don't have to ever worry about him getting into trouble on South Beach..
 
ckparrothead said:
Marvin Lewis pretty much made the decision on Carson sitting the whole year when he drafted him. There was no discussion or debate. Then in his second year Lewis made the decision that Carson would start, before any practices had begun...again, no discussion or debate. He sucked for a good half the year, too.

Carson's more along the kind of QB I actually think could have been successful as a rookie a little bit because he's got some tremendous physical gifts.

Beck is not one of those guys and he's going to have to take a year. Sitting the bench IS a valuable experience though. You're practicing in full pads with everyone, and so you're getting exposure to how fast the game is. You're prepping like a starter each week, which is giving you all kinds of dry runs at what you'd do if you were the starter. And then, you gain absolutely invaluable experience just by watching how the starter handles himself and learning what to do, or maybe what NOT to do, when you get in. That's not just limited to rookies learning, either. Look at Joey Harrington, the boy we love to hate. He watches Daunte go in for four games and get killed behind a leaky offensive line...he sees the coaches fighting with Daunte to try and get him to get the ball out quicker...so he goes in the New England game and what does he do? He gets rid of the ball EXTREMELY quickly.

And for a time it helped the offense have a little better cohesion, but in the long term over the long haul of the season you can't run a passing offense with severe myopia.
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:sidelol:your're hillarious dog..:sidelol:
 
finsforce said:
This article was fantastic to read. The more I hear about Beck, the more I admire the guy. It really makes me appreciate how fortunate the Dolphins are for drafting him in the second round. What humors me most about the article is how it ends...

Oh, yeah! Here's the link: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,680196134,00.html

[Update: Alternate link - http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,680196515,00.html]
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Thanks for the article. The more you read about this guy, the more impressed we all have to be. Whether or not he makes a great NFL QB, it sounds like he has his head on right for success in life. :wink:
 
If you watch beck play, one of the great things you see as a passer is his quick awareness. He can make decisions very quick and at the same time use a lot of anticipation on his throws. He can make virtually every nfl throw you can give him. His comeback route throws were pretty accurate as well as his slant. We have struggle from a passing standpoint with our last quarterback in one of those areas.

Hopefully he gets to start next year after learning this system.
 
ckparrothead said:
Marvin Lewis pretty much made the decision on Carson sitting the whole year when he drafted him. There was no discussion or debate. Then in his second year Lewis made the decision that Carson would start, before any practices had begun...again, no discussion or debate. He sucked for a good half the year, too.

Carson's more along the kind of QB I actually think could have been successful as a rookie a little bit because he's got some tremendous physical gifts.

Beck is not one of those guys and he's going to have to take a year. Sitting the bench IS a valuable experience though. You're practicing in full pads with everyone, and so you're getting exposure to how fast the game is. You're prepping like a starter each week, which is giving you all kinds of dry runs at what you'd do if you were the starter. And then, you gain absolutely invaluable experience just by watching how the starter handles himself and learning what to do, or maybe what NOT to do, when you get in. That's not just limited to rookies learning, either. Look at Joey Harrington, the boy we love to hate. He watches Daunte go in for four games and get killed behind a leaky offensive line...he sees the coaches fighting with Daunte to try and get him to get the ball out quicker...so he goes in the New England game and what does he do? He gets rid of the ball EXTREMELY quickly.

And for a time it helped the offense have a little better cohesion, but in the long term over the long haul of the season you can't run a passing offense with severe myopia.
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One other thing that helps a rookie QB have success is having a good team around him. Most Qb's that are drafted high are the top pick because thier team sucked. Dan Marino and Ben Roth were helped quite a bit by having playoff teams around them. Its all about the cast they have around them.
Put Brady on the Texans and I'm sure his bust in Canton would not be so assured.
 
ckparrothead said:
It isn't that Beck can't cut it physically, he's just not a Dan Marino or Ben Roethlisberger. Those guys came around like once every 30 years. Jamarcus Russell is closer to being one of those guys that John Beck or Brady Quinn...although that doesn't mean that Russell will have the better career.

I wouldn't expect guys like Marc Bulger, Trent Green, Tom Brady, or Drew Brees to have good rookie seasons...but they're building some of the most efficient careers quarterbacks have ever had, so far.
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I hope beck isn't like dan marino or Ben. I for one have been watching dan marino play and you can make the arguements that he didn't have the greatest cast in the world. However when it came primetime in the playoffs Dan Marino just didn't play as well. He lost his cool very easily and always was in a bad mood when things weren't going great for him. I believe that is one of his downfalls.

Let me give you an example about Tom Brady for example. During his superbowl years I remember this clip very well. New England was down in some of those games and Charlie Weiss kept Brady calm and collected. By Tom coming out there calm and collected it gave his offense a lot more to give rather to bring such negativeness out there and frustration. That is what I like about Beck. He is a very calm and collected person during his games. You can physically have it but if mentally you get your feelings out there, you won't have much success. I would compare him with a Tom Brady coming out of college, getting his feet wet.


In my opinion John Beck if groomed by our current coaching staff, he will become a good player. I would not compare him neither to ben or marino because those are not very good comparisons but having a guy out there that can make accurate nfl throws with power its a plus. He also has that scrambling ability as well a winner attitute. Its up to him to use those tools and become successful.
 
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