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Beck -vs- Leinhart

Matt Leinart also has a lot bigger contract than beck too. i think beck has all the tools but needs some weapons now
 
I was watching the Beck game tapes from last year and the thing I notice more than anything is Beck's ability to move around in the pocket. WE know he is very accurate by his college tapes, so onve the jitters are gone, which they should already be, he will be more than fine back there. I noticed that he scrambled a few times and never took his eyes off the passing options. I think he has some Montana in him but a much stronger arm.
 
jetsh8r said:
I was watching the Beck game tapes from last year and the thing I notice more than anything is Beck's ability to move around in the pocket. WE know he is very accurate by his college tapes, so onve the jitters are gone, which they should already be, he will be more than fine back there. I noticed that he scrambled a few times and never took his eyes off the passing options. I think he has some Montana in him but a much stronger arm.
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Running an offense where your top two receivers are your RB and your TE also makes you look alot more accurate.
 
rafael said:
Leinart's arm is weaker and he has less accuracy. As for the enlightenment you requested the most recent appropriate is Tony Romo. The year before Romo started David Lee (the same guy who's coaching Beck) changed Romo's delivery to be more over the top. This is exactly the same thing they are working with Beck on.
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If that's the case (re: romo) then I wills stand corrected but I stand by the basic point that trying to change a QB's delivery at age 27 is going to fail more often than not.
 
schmolioot said:
If that's the case (re: romo) then I wills stand corrected but I stand by the basic point that trying to change a QB's delivery at age 27 is going to fail more often than not.
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We'll probably just disagree but the mechanical tweak to a more over the top motion is incredibly common. I personally don't think it makes much difference one way or another (maybe stops one or two batted down passes per year) but it is popular in the NFL now. I would guess that you'd see it emphasized in more than half of the training camps this off-season with all the QBs on the roster.
 
rafael said:
We'll probably just disagree but the mechanical tweak to a more over the top motion is incredibly common. I personally don't think it makes much difference one way or another (maybe stops one or two batted down passes per year) but it is popular in the NFL now. I would guess that you'd see it emphasized in more than half of the training camps this off-season with all the QBs on the roster.
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Thanks for the insight. I guess my only point is that a QB can be great mechanically and stink and be terrible mechanically but be great (Favre). Even Marino was thought to be mechanically flawed when he came out but Shula saw the quick release and decided to leave him be. If the staff truly thought Beck was a great player, just leave him and live with a couple batted passes. I thought that was the least of Beck's problems last year.
 
dlockz said:
Way too much is being made of Leinhart's photos. I love how some one to question his dedication now. Nobody but a homer chooses Beck. There is not one thing that Beck has on Leinhart and Leinhart is younger by two years.He has more NFL experience and will be just fine. Hell I bet some people will say that Beck was better in college than Leinhart.
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yes he does.. he has EXCELLENT WRs and his numbers dont reflect what hes capable of. I think leinhart is a good QB.. but i would always take the blue collar guy over the flashy guy any day of the week.. even if the talent level is not even. Im pretty sure your teamates will respect you a whole hell of alot more when they see how hard beck is working. i know i would give me all for a guy like that.
 
schmolioot said:
Thanks for the insight. I guess my only point is that a QB can be great mechanically and stink and be terrible mechanically but be great (Favre). Even Marino was thought to be mechanically flawed when he came out but Shula saw the quick release and decided to leave him be. If the staff truly thought Beck was a great player, just leave him and live with a couple batted passes. I thought that was the least of Beck's problems last year.
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I agree that mechanics was the least of his problems. Cam noted it last year but said he wouldn't mess with it. It's really just the "in" thing now but I don't think it has much bearing on his eventual success or failure. Beck's big problems last year were related to lack of knowledge and the speed of the game. Just by having more reps/experience those will improve and then his obvious accuracy, touch and quick release which we saw only in flashes last year will become more consistent.
 
dlockz said:
Running an offense where your top two receivers are your RB and your TE also makes you look alot more accurate.
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so you're finally coming around about Ryan's 59% completion rating being overrated? ..or does it just apply to Beck?

 
schmolioot said:
In what way was Leinart a lesser prospect than Beck? Leinart was a heisman trophy winner at a big time program with all the physical/mental/leadership attributes you could want. So he had a party (at his home) during the offseason, who cares and how does that show lack of dedication?

Beck is doing all this extra work because he needs it. He was terrible last year and only now, at age 27, is the new staff trying to fix a hitch in his delivery. If an NFL QB has ever succesfully changed his delivery/release point, please enlighten me,b/c it just does not happen. guys that come into the leage with mechanical quirks typivally always have them. If they are good enough, they overcome them, most don't

Beck may end up being a better pro than Leinart, but let's at least be objective when talking about the subject. Beck has a looooong way to go.
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So does Matty. He was sharing snaps with a 40 + year old QB last year because the H. T. W. Wasn't doing so well before her injury.
 
Vaark said:
so you're finally coming around about Ryan's 59% completion rating being overrated? ..or does it just apply to Beck?
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Actually that is not correct on Ryan the Wr was the second receiver.
Beck did not complete over 30 passes to any one wide receiver and Ryan
had 6 receivers that caught over 30 passes. If this was true of Ryan I would say yes but Boston college's offense and BYU's are two differant animals.
 
As a USC alum I've got to identify Leinart. But Leinart with 5% more arm strength makes this a non-question.

Leinart has far more variety of pace and loft than Beck. He can drop it off a roof top when necessary.

And the problem with Beck's low delivery is not merely batted down passes. That's the cheap and convenient reference point. It's all about angle of attack, similar to golf. When you have the arm and elbow going forward in ideal angle and proximity to your ear it's simple to adjust loft and make almost any throw. But now try that when the ball is low, out toward your side. At that point the wrist is more flat, the palm more open, and the successful permutations much more limited. It's why you see line drive throwers among QBs with low deliveries. Not much different than flat golf swings like Trevino's producing low shots, and not nearly the variety of a more upright contemporary like Nicklaus.

The only thing I noted about Beck last year is the release has to be repaired. The other stuff will work its way out, like ball security. He's actually decent in short passes but the arm dips too low on deeper throws.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
As a USC alum I've got to identify Leinart. But Leinart with 5% more arm strength makes this a non-question.

Leinart has far more variety of pace and loft than Beck. He can drop it off a roof top when necessary.

And the problem with Beck's low delivery is not merely batted down passes. That's the cheap and convenient reference point. It's all about angle of attack, similar to golf. When you have the arm and elbow going forward in ideal angle and proximity to your ear it's simple to adjust loft and make almost any throw. But now try that when the ball is low, out toward your side. At that point the wrist is more flat, the palm more open, and the successful permutations much more limited. It's why you see line drive throwers among QBs with low deliveries. Not much different than flat golf swings like Trevino's producing low shots, and not nearly the variety of a more upright contemporary like Nicklaus.

The only thing I noted about Beck last year is the release has to be repaired. The other stuff will work its way out, like ball security. He's actually decent in short passes but the arm dips too low on deeper throws.
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Beck threw over 1,500 passes just last week working with Lee. I'm sure they are working on something.:up:
 
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