Charlie Wilson
Scout Team
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We don't need to be comparing Beck against other QB's. We should be making threads like Beck vs Patriots defense - or something that is actually RELEVANT!
Beck -vs- Leinhart
- Thread starter Neece22
- Start date
I don't follow high school recruiting much and I don't know whether he had other options but a quick search shows that your opinion that Matt Berry was much higher rated or that he didn't come in with many accolades is certainly not universal.
JOHN BECK Beck, a true freshman, comes in with as much hype as Berry did after his mission. His senior year high school numbers would make any college coach drool. He threw for 42 touchdown passes with only four interceptions. He was also named MVP in a 5A Arizona football league. He doesn't have prototypical pro quarterback size at 6' 2" and 195 pounds, but by most accounts, he has the arm, competitiveness, confidence and desire to compete for the starting job.
http://byu.scout.com/2/113441.html
High school career
Beck attended Mountain View High School in Mesa, Arizona, before being recruited by Brigham Young University. He received Outstanding Male Scholar Athlete honors at Mountain View High School, a three-year letterman, and led Mountain View High School to a state championship as a senior. His overall record was 25-2 during his junior and senior seasons. Beck earned first-team all-region, first-team all-state, USA Today All-American honorable mention and Dairyman first-team All-America honors. He was named the region Offensive Player of the Year and garnered first-team Super All-State and Super All-State Player-of-the-Year honors. Beck was further recognized as the Arizona High School Football Player of the Year and earned both the Ed Dougherty and Fred Enke Awards (Arizona Quarterback of the Year). During his senior year, he was named the MVP during the state championship game and selected as the Arizona All-Star game Most Valuable Player. Fox Sports has recognized Beck as the Arizona 5A Player of the Year. Beck also currently holds the Arizona high school record with 42 touchdown completions in a single season with only 4 interceptions. Beyond football, Beck also lettered twice in baseball as a pitcher and an infielder.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Beck_(American_football)
The only knock seems to be prototypical size which doesn't prevent any QBs (who are at least 6'2") from being successful. I choose to focus more on things that actually correlate to success (like passing ability).
dlockz
Hall Of Famer
Here is notes on Matt Berry from BYU official website
Notice when they describe Beck there is no mention of high school rankings, that because he was not ranked highly and had no other major scholarship offers. I said in my description that Beck had good high school numbers but alot of qb's put up great numbers in high school and are not top prospects.
As you said yourself you do not follow high school recruiting and I definately do so I come armed with a little more knowledge of how these guys were coming out of high school. Not a knock on you just stating the obvious that you already pointed out.
Before BYU
Named SuperPrep and Prep Star All-American ... Named all-state, All-King County, All-Eastside ... Selected as a Seattle Times All-State performer ... Holds several state high school passing records ... Considered to be among the top 15 high school quarterbacks in the country ... Ranked by Prep Star as the fifth-ranked quarterback recruit from the west ... Noted by Prep Star as having "ideal size for a drop-back passer with good all-around athletic ability".
With all due respect - it's not so black and white as you assert. Do you really think the high school QB with an AZ state championship, and so many personal benchmarks, honors and accomplishments would get no nods IF he didn't make it clear that his immediate next step is 2 years as a Mormon missionary?? (and I think you found a gray area there because while I was unable to research whether Beck did receive big school scholarship offers directly out of high school, similarly I'm unable to find research that would indicate he did not either). So please cite if you have tangible research to back up your assertion.
And as far as his return, after 2 years in limbo in Portugal, it appears apparent from the following cite that during his mission John was locked in on BYU first and foremost. Whether that was a deterent to top tier schools who were interested, such as Arizona State, Miami and Washington..who's to say and isn't playing for your favorite school a no brainer dream-come-true???
(Cited)That's because,much like many devout Mormons in their post-high school years, Beck delayed attending college to spend time at a mission. From 2000-02, Beck put his promising athletic career on hold to live in Lisbon, Portugal.
But Beck had other goals and he returned to the United States in 2003 to enroll at BYU and play football. During his long absence from the country and from the game of football, only BYU and Arizona State made an effort to keep in touch.
While more schools (big ones like Washington and Miami (Fla.)) became interested after seeing his matured, bigger body return from overseas, Beck stuck with the school for which he had always rooted.
"It's something I wanted to do since I was a kid," Beck said of playing at BYU. "I was grateful to follow in the footsteps of guys like Steve Young, Jim McMahon and Ty Detmer."
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/article.php?id=6696
And if you are a student of college recruiting, do you know who Keith Smith was ..a bit earlier? I ask because there were a number of apples to apples comparisons to Beck's high school career (down to height although John's arm was stronger)...BUT Keith (I do know him and his dad and watched him play throughout his record-breaking high school career in the 90s) had a selection of big school options since there was no 2 year hiatus in between) Hint: Holiday Bowl MVP beating Nebraska
Vertical Limit
Active Roster
LOL. Oh come on guys. You seriously forgot who Matt Leinart is haven't you? The guy was "THE MAN" in college. It doesn't matter what type of talent he had, hell, other than Reggie Bush, what has that other "great" supporting cast done in the NFL?
Matt Leinart has been Mr. Clutch his entire football playing career. Hell, I remember a Monday Night Football game that he, a rookie quarterback, was picking out that #1 Chicago defense. In the end, he also lead the team down the field in position for a possible game winning field goal, which their choke job Vanderjact clone missed.
John Beck, a much older QB hasn't had no where near the flashes that Matt Leinart has put.
Matt Leinart is obvious the better prospect. I like John Beck, but come on, if I had to choose which one I want to build my franchise around, it will be Leinart.
Matt Leinart has been Mr. Clutch his entire football playing career. Hell, I remember a Monday Night Football game that he, a rookie quarterback, was picking out that #1 Chicago defense. In the end, he also lead the team down the field in position for a possible game winning field goal, which their choke job Vanderjact clone missed.
John Beck, a much older QB hasn't had no where near the flashes that Matt Leinart has put.
Matt Leinart is obvious the better prospect. I like John Beck, but come on, if I had to choose which one I want to build my franchise around, it will be Leinart.
dlockz
Hall Of Famer
Keith Smith from Newbury Park CAlifornia Im guessing is who you are talking about.
He passed for 11,433 yards and 87 touchdowns in his career. His 4,244 yards through the air and 5,018 total yards his senior year were second most in the country. His team went a perfect 14-0 that season, winning the Division III state title, and he was the California state player of the year.
Was very good at baseball also and played briefly with the Detroit Tigers organization who drafted him before playing at Arizona. He was 5 foot 11 which hurt his scholarship offers some. This guy was also involved in a suit regarding his CFL contract around the time of the XFL. 193rd pick of XFL draft. Arizona was one of the few division one teams to offer him a chance to play Qb, many colleges balked at his height. IF Smith was taller he would have been a big time prospect, he was on some major collge radar but once teams verified his height very few wanted him as a QB. The 100,000 dollar bonus he signed with the Tigers probably had some influence also.Being the most prolific high school Qb in California high school history at the time probably carried more weight than being the top qb in Arizona as Beck was in high school. Beck was considered at best like a two star recruit and his arm trength was not that hailed coming out of high school and he was also very thin. Smith was also a much better runner at QB than Beck. Smith could have went to alot of schools and probably been a defensive back.
MarinoFishHead
Pro Bowler
Dude.....lay off the M. Ryan pills.......Beck is leagues above that kid in every aspect.
Very good.. he was actually just a tad under 6ft. Do you know who his WR was who broke all the California state receiving records at that time, blew a Colorado scholarship due to some stupid gun stuff, and last I heard was imprisoned? I watched half of all those records being broken (home games and championship)!!! (Should I be impressed that you actually knew about Keith or did you look him up????) He was a great kid who at the height of high school QB and BB fame would tell little kids like my son.. that because his number was 12, that's how many kisses he gave his mom every night. As an aside, Sparky Anderson was a local guy (also have played in his charity Hearts tournament) and was responsible for the Tigers drafting him... Anyway, I believe he got offers from Oregon, Washington or Wash St and a few other majors too..but you got me in that I did forget he took a year off to try BB rather than going straight to AZ and in hindsight, probably had a more illustrious high school career than did John.
Ryan is bigger, stronger, younger, and has a better release point than Beck. He can throw on the run better, has a moderately better arm and is tougher than Beck.
dlockz
Hall Of Famer
look if u like Beck better thats fine, but your statement has no basis