Best Running Back in the AFCE?

[B-LO BABY]

I guarantee McGahee has a better season than Brown; Mularkey's play-calling is going to kill him, and he will miss Williams.

I'm sorry, but before I anoint a RB among the league's best, he's gotta average more than 8 or so carries per game and has to have more than two 100-yard games in his career. This guy had 4 TDs and 4 fumbles last year; he's not exactly Walter Payton yet.

 

[Colorado Dolfan]

Aww.. McGahee had 4 fumbles in 2004, too... which is, incidentally, the year everyone seems to want to compare Ronnies 2005 season to...

So lets get back to apples-to-apples...

2005-2005

Ronnie Brown: 1139 all-purpose yards, 4.8 yards average rushing and receiving, 5 TDs, 4 Fumbles

Willis McGahee: 1325 all-purpose yards, 4.0 avg per touch, 5 TDs, and 1 Fumble

You're right, B-Lo... McGahee is obviously much better than Brown...:rolleyes2

 

[B-LO BABY]

Aww.. McGahee had 4 fumbles in 2004, too... which is, incidentally, the year everyone seems to want to compare Ronnies 2005 season to...

McGahee also had 13 TDs that year.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

I guarantee McGahee has a better season than Brown; Mularkey's play-calling is going to kill him, and he will miss Williams.

I'm sorry, but before I anoint a RB among the league's best, he's gotta average more than 8 or so carries per game and has to have more than two 100-yard games in his career. This guy had 4 TDs and 4 fumbles last year; he's not exactly Walter Payton yet.

You guys need to get off Brown's balls before Nick Saban gets jealous.

Are you dense? We are not comparing him to the league best. We are comparing him to McGahee. McGahee hasn't been much better than average whether you want to admit it or not.

I've shown you three other rankings that put Brown above McGahee and neither amoung the elite of the league. You have issues.

 

[DolphinDevil28]

I guarantee McGahee has a better season than Brown; Mularkey's play-calling is going to kill him, and he will miss Williams.

I'm sorry, but before I anoint a RB among the league's best, he's gotta average more than 8 or so carries per game and has to have more than two 100-yard games in his career. This guy had 4 TDs and 4 fumbles last year; he's not exactly Walter Payton yet.

*Shock*

Another Bills prediction in the offseason that the predictor won't return when it's proven wrong to eat his crow.

Seriously. You guys do this every offseason. EVERY offseason.

At this time last year, we were guaranteed the Bills would finish with a better record than the Dolphins. How'd that turn out?

We were guaranteed JP Losman would have a better season than Gus Frerotte. How'd that turn out?

See where I'm going?
You Bills fans are so dense. You just don't get it.

 

[nyjunc]

Don't have an argument? You convienently dropped your excuse about the defenses faced by McGahee in 2004 when these facts were presented:

Arizona, Cleveland, Miami, St Louis, Seattle, San Fransisco, Cincy were all ranked in the BOTTOM THIRD of the league in rushing defense in 2004. Oh, and you "forgot" to mention that Willis faced the 3rd stringers against the Steelers in the last game of 2004. THAT'S NINE SOFT DEFENSES AGAINST THE RUN. The best of that group in YPC against was SF at 4.0 (who you so brilliantly rank soft).

I dropped my excuse when these facts were presented? This is the first I am seeing of them and do me a favor and look up the YPC allowed by the opponents and tell me what you find. I'll save you the time:

D's Willis faced: 4.0 YPC allowed
D's Ronnie faced: 3.8 YPC allowed

Which is better?

If I "forgot" to mention he faced Pitt's 3rd stringers in Week 17 of '04 do we alo mention that Ronnie did the same against NE in week 17 of '05?

All McGahee could accomplish was to gain yards at a rate BELOW the AVERAGE YPC given up by those teams. Which makes him...... drum roll please...... BELOW AVERGE.

all he did was score 13 TDs in1 1 starts and help Buf overcome an 0-4 start to finish 9-7 and close to a playoff berth. He was the guy that sparked that team after he came in to start after the 0-4 start.

Shot down, AGAIN.....

:sidelol: :sidelol:

I love when guys THINK they won and talk trash then when they see they lost they feel like fools.

Every player in the league risks getting injured on every play. To take your argument to the extreme. Reggie Bush is not as good as any player that has already started in the NFL, no matter how poorly that player has played. That is just stupid.

If Reggie Bush were in a division with the three worst starting RBs from last season, you'd rank Bush last? WTF?

has Reggie Bush played an NFL season? Ronnie HAS and Willis' best season(2 years ago) was by far better than Ronnie's only year. Why is this so difficult for dolphin fans to understand? Why is it that you guys have the best player at every position and the bst coaches(according to you guys) yet have not reached a title game since 1992?

That's pretty much what I'd said above. However, it doesn't seem like to much of a stretch for Ronnie to gain another 340 yards.

I lik eRonnie, I THINK he can handle the load and think he very well could be the best of the div but I have to see it first. I know Willis can handle it.

And there was no Ricky the first four games of the season. Yet he managed 132 yards vs Carolina and 97 at Buffalo (at 5.7 ypc each).

and also had 57 yds(2.6) and 35(2.9) against Den and the Jets.

Finally, I would argue there was a lot of pressure on Ronnie. Not only to live up to the #2 overall pick and $19 million bonus, but also to not be out-performed by Ricky Williams. There were plenty of Dolphin fans doubting him after he struggled in his first two outings. With Ronnie's situation and his suspension and minimum contract, Ricky was the one under little/no pressure.

I don't think he had any pressure other than normal NFL pressure. Ricky had a ton of pressure as he was playing for his NFL future. If he wasn't successful he would have been done and he might be done at this point for other reasons.

I thought you'd like this comment about Willis's play last season:



http://msn.foxsports.com/fantasy/story/5636844


Too funny.

he hasn't struggled against us and he sure didn't struggle in 2004.

You are talking to a brick wall.

It's no use.

I'm well built but a brick wall might be pushing it:D All i do is present FACTS and folks like you use "gut feelings". I presented a million facts about JJ and you could not provide one to defend him. brick wall? I back up my arguments.

Aww.. McGahee had 4 fumbles in 2004, too... which is, incidentally, the year everyone seems to want to compare Ronnies 2005 season to...

4 fumbles and 2 lost, last year Ronnie had 4 fumbles and 4 lost. Oh and Willis had 67 more touches.

*Shock*

Another Bills prediction in the offseason that the predictor won't return when it's proven wrong to eat his crow.

Seriously. You guys do this every offseason. EVERY offseason.

At this time last year, we were guaranteed the Bills would finish with a better record than the Dolphins. How'd that turn out?

We were guaranteed JP Losman would have a better season than Gus Frerotte. How'd that turn out?

See where I'm going?
You Bills fans are so dense. You just don't get it.

In case you haven't noticed you guys have done and are doing the SAME things. How many years did we hear "this is Chambers break out season" before he FINALLY had it last year?

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

I dropped my excuse when these facts were presented? This is the first I am seeing of them and do me a favor and look up the YPC allowed by the opponents and tell me what you find. I'll save you the time:

D's Willis faced: 4.0 YPC allowed
D's Ronnie faced: 3.8 YPC allowed

Which is better?

WTF? Is this a rhetorical question? You are seriously asking me which is better? Brown faced tougher defenses against the run and had a substantially higher YPC.

Thanks for PROVING my argument.

If I "forgot" to mention he faced Pitt's 3rd stringers in Week 17 of '04 do we alo mention that Ronnie did the same against NE in week 17 of '05?

Sure.

I love when guys THINK they won and talk trash then when they see they lost they feel like fools.

Face it. Your attempt at justifying McGahee's poor YPC was shot down.

has Reggie Bush played an NFL season?

So, I'll take that as a refusal to answer the question.....

All i do is present FACTS and folks like you use "gut feelings".

"Facts"? You mean like the arbitrary "assessments" of the defenses faced by McGahee in 2004? Those teams that turned out to be near the bottom of the league against the run. Those "facts"?

Why is it that you guys have the best player at every position and the bst coaches(according to you guys) yet have not reached a title game since 1992?

YOU claimed Willis was almost IMPOSSIBLE to stop in short yardage situations. A claim that was directly refuted by a professional source and I knew to be wrong since he was criticized by his own coaching staff last season.

YOU claimed McGahee faced tough defenses in 2004. A claim that was easily refuted.

Once your arguments are shot down, you resort to silly claims? I never claimed Ronnie was the best, just better than McGahee. Is that so hard for you to understand? I haven't mentioned any other positions.

 

[nyjunc]

WTF? Is this a rhetorical question? You are seriously asking me which is better? Brown faced tougher defenses against the run and had a substantially higher YPC.

Thanks for PROVING my argument.

I think it was opposite and i just made a mistake so Willis' D's were bettera nd either way they were close refuting your claim of Willis having it much easier.

Face it. Your attempt at justifying McGahee's poor YPC was shot down.

4.0 is NOT poor it is good and 4.0 as an every down back is better than 4.4 as a part time player.

So, I'll take that as a refusal to answer the question.....

No as of now I'd say Willis is better b/c he has PROVEN he can do it at this level. it doesn't mean Willis will be better but as of now he is b/c he's done it.

"Facts"? You mean like the arbitrary "assessments" of the defenses faced by McGahee in 2004? Those teams that turned out to be near the bottom of the league against the run. Those "facts"?

The facts like you presented were that Willis faced far worse D's and that truned out NOt to be the case. When I wrote "great D, ok D, etc.." it was about their overall play not just against the run. Some of those D's were mid of the pack overall but poor against the run.

YOU claimed Willis was almost IMPOSSIBLE to stop in short yardage situations. A claim that was directly refuted by a professional source and I knew to be wrong since he was criticized by his own coaching staff last season.

Is a guy allowed to have a bad season? It's funny coming from dolphin fans who have gone gaga over ricky when Ricky has had ONE big season but Willis isn't allowed to have a bad year in his 2nd full year when he had no QBs and no OL. You crack me up.

13 TDs in 11 starts is pretty good, right?

YOU claimed McGahee faced tough defenses in 2004. A claim that was easily refuted.

No it wasn't, overall he did. The run D's were close but the overall D's he faced were tougher than Ronnie.

Once your arguments are shot down, you resort to silly claims? I never claimed Ronnie was the best, just better than McGahee. Is that so hard for you to understand? I haven't mentioned any other positions.

You say silly and then say ronnie is better than Willis:sidelol: it's hysterical the blind homerism. Let's see Ronnie do it as an every down back. Again he MAY be better it just hasn't been PROVEN.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Is a guy allowed to have a bad season? It's funny coming from dolphin fans who have gone gaga over ricky when Ricky has had ONE big season but Willis isn't allowed to have a bad year in his 2nd full year when he had no QBs and no OL. You crack me up.

When you've only played two seasons and one was average and the other was bad, how do you rank as an elite back?

 

[B-LO BABY]

All you Fin fans are in for a huge reality check come this season. The more seasoned, durable back with 2400 yards the past two seasons will have a better year than the back who hasn't carried a full load since high school (if that, he could've split carries there too for all I know) and who has had a grand total of TWO 100-yard games.

You can't deny what McGahee has accomplished in two seasons. He reached 2000 yards faster than any Bills back ever, a list that includes Thurman Thomas and OJ Simpson (each of whom were markedly better than any running back the Dolphins ever had).

Maybe all you homers can move on and try to convince everyone that Channing Crowder is better than Takeo Spikes.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

All you Fin fans are in for a huge reality check come this season. The more seasoned, durable back with 2400 yards the past two seasons will have a better year than the back who hasn't carried a full load since high school (if that, he could've split carries there too for all I know) and who has had a grand total of TWO 100-yard games.

You can't deny what McGahee has accomplished in two seasons. He reached 2000 yards faster than any Bills back ever, a list that includes Thurman Thomas and OJ Simpson (each of whom were markedly better than any running back the Dolphins ever had).

Maybe all you homers can move on and try to convince everyone that Channing Crowder is better than Takeo Spikes.

Why do you insist on pretending that 3.9 YPC puts McGahee in the elite category. I don't care if he rushes for 2000 yards in a season, if he does it at 3.9 YPC, that's still average. All that means is that the team is satisfied with a mediocre back and will give him the ball enough to pile up yards.

Out of the top 30 RBs last season, McGahee was 24th in YPC. Brown was 7th. The average YPC amoung the top 30 was 4.3 YPC. Brown was tied for the 9th longest run, McGahee was 28th.

McGahee only had more carries, that's all. I preferred to pick the back that does more with the carries rather than the back that merely gets the carries.

If McGahee performs this season like he did last season, he will lose carries to Anthony Thomas.

 

[muscle979]

*Shock*

Another Bills prediction in the offseason that the predictor won't return when it's proven wrong to eat his crow.

Seriously. You guys do this every offseason. EVERY offseason.

At this time last year, we were guaranteed the Bills would finish with a better record than the Dolphins. How'd that turn out?

We were guaranteed JP Losman would have a better season than Gus Frerotte. How'd that turn out?

See where I'm going?
You Bills fans are so dense. You just don't get it.

You forgot the guarantee that the Bills would go deep into the playoffs in 05. :sidelol:

 

[Colorado Dolfan]

The numbers speak for themselves? You throw out YPC as a meaningful number? You are in serious denial.

Here are some unbiased rankings.

From usatoday.com

7. Ronnie Brown, MIA
13. Willis McGahee, BUF

From yahoo sports

Tier 3: Ronnie Brown
Tier 4: Willis McGahee

From sportsillustrated.cnn.com

11 Brown, Ronnie MIA
13 McGahee, Willis BUF


Get over it.

Watch out, we got Pete Prisco, the Dolphins Homer ranking Ronnie as top 10, too.

Don't see McGahee on the list, though...:boohoo:

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/positional-rankings/OFF/RB

 

[nyjunc]

When you've only played two seasons and one was average and the other was bad, how do you rank as an elite back?

Where did I say elite? He's not up there w/ the LJ's and LT's but he's a very good back and his '04 season was better than Ronnie's '05. I think both players have high ceilings aboth will be very good backs for a long time but I don't see elite in either of them.

Why do you insist on pretending that 3.9 YPC puts McGahee in the elite category.

Alot of Phin fans made a big deal about Ricky's 02 and '03 and while he was great in '02(his only great season) he was not in '03. he had a 3.5 YPC but miami fans blame the OL and the QBs but Buf fans can't use the OLO and QB as an excuse for Willis? at least 3.9 is clsoe to 4.0 while 3.5 is pathetic.

Out of the top 30 RBs last season, McGahee was 24th in YPC. Brown was 7th. The average YPC amoung the top 30 was 4.3 YPC. Brown was tied for the 9th longest run, McGahee was 28th

You can't compare b/c 1 guy was a feature back while the other was a part time back. you guys dismiss Tatum Bell but as a part time back he had 5.3 YPC and outgained Ronnie despite 20+ less carries. you dismnissed my Blair Thomas example but as a part time back as a rookie he had 5.0 YPC. it's very diff as a part timer and as a feature back.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Where did I say elite? He's not up there w/ the LJ's and LT's but he's a very good back and his '04 season was better than Ronnie's '05. I think both players have high ceilings aboth will be very good backs for a long time but I don't see elite in either of them.

I see no reason why Brown won't be right up there with Larry Johnson, Stephen Jackson, Shaun Alexander, and LT. There are rumors that McGahee has trimmed down a bit. If he gets back to 225 or so and regains some of the speed he had in college, put him in that category too.

Two season's ago, LJ was a part time player and a change of pace back. But when he was on the field he produced. He showed enough starting two seasons ago that you could see the type of back he was. His lack of playing time was due to how great Holmes was, not because LJ was not talented. It is the same situation with Brown. Having a second great RB on the team does not make Brown a worse player.

Alot of Phin fans made a big deal about Ricky's 02 and '03 and while he was great in '02(his only great season) he was not in '03. he had a 3.5 YPC but miami fans blame the OL and the QBs but Buf fans can't use the OLO and QB as an excuse for Willis? at least 3.9 is clsoe to 4.0 while 3.5 is pathetic.

A little math for you..... 3.9 is closer to 3.5 than it is to 4.4.

I watched most of the Bills games. The OL wasn't very good, but McGahee contributed to the problems with tentative running and a lack of effort. His own coaches called him out more than once.

You can't compare b/c 1 guy was a feature back while the other was a part time back. you guys dismiss Tatum Bell but as a part time back he had 5.3 YPC and outgained Ronnie despite 20+ less carries. you dismnissed my Blair Thomas example but as a part time back as a rookie he had 5.0 YPC. it's very diff as a part timer and as a feature back.

I've never dismissed Tatum Bell. The difference with Bell is that: (a) he didn't have a great back that he was splitting carries with. He split carries with Mike Anderson. (b) he is on the Broncos and as long as that team churns out rushers, people will give credit to the system (c) he is a much smaller back than Brown and he splits carries because of it (d) he was in his third season and still hadn't taken the starting spot, Brown was a rookie that has missed most of training camp. Big difference.

I never dismissed your Blair Thomas example either. Unfortunately for the Jets, history shows how he turned out.

Two seasons ago, we could have had this same debate comparing LJ and McGahee. Your argument would have been that McGahee was better simply because he had more carries. I could have argued that I watched LJ and IMO he looked better. Well last season LJ showed what he could do with a full load. I believe Brown will do the same this season.

If Ronnie Brown never becomes the featured back and plays for 10 years averaging 175 - 200 carries per year, while McGahee plays 10 years averaging 300 - 325 carries per year, I'll agree with you.