Best Running Back in the AFCE?

[nyjunc]

Because he is nowhere near as explosive or fast as he was in college. Even you cannot dispute that. You seem to think 4 YPC is great. If so, this debate is pointless.....

4 YPC is good not great, brown was at 4.4, you act like he was at 5.5. 4.4 is very good but it was in part time duty where a big run or 2 can really change the YPC. he had the luxury of d's worrying more about Ricky and the luxury of Ricky wearing D's down a bit. he won't have that this year.

Since that's all I have, yes. You seem to be able to deduce that McGahee is better based on the same amount of data. Why not me?

McGahee was BETTER as a FEATURE back. I'll take .4 less YPC w/ more yards and almost 10 mroe TDs any day of the week.

Is 32 higher than 25 or not? You seem to forget that Ronnie's numbers were REDUCED by fewer opportunities. Make Ronnie the fulltime starter and we'd be comparing 50 receptions to 25. Also, Ronnie is more natural coming out of the backfield. McGahee's receptions are almost all screen passes. He is not a good receiver.

His#s weren't reduced, he was in more passing situations b/c he wasn't carrying it as much. Those #s can easily go down, you can't go from 16 touches a game to 25-30. He'll be worn down by midseason.

Willis's career long is 41 yards. His high last season was 25. Not explosive. Ronnie's long of 65 would have been more, but he was stopped by the endzone. Ricky was not more powerful than Ronnie last season.

How do you explain Willis having TWICE as many 20+ yd gains in '04 compared to Ronnie's '05?

You like to claim that fewer carries helped Brown's numbers but hurt McGahee's numbers. Does that make any sense? You have no way of knowing if McGahee would have broken down trying to carry the ball as much as Ricky did in 2002. Since all three players got enough carries to establish a reliable YPC, we can compare Ricky's 4.8 in 2002, McGahee's 3.8 last season, and Brown's 4.4 last season. You do the math.

Why do you continue to dismiss Willis' '04 season?

BTW, Ronnie Brown had the same number of TDs as McGahee last season. You seem to think that receiving TDs don't count. I can understand wanting to ignore receiving numbers when comparing Brown and McGahee since they ruin your argument.

Is brown a WR? We count rushing TDs when talking running the football and in a bad year Willis still had more. Willis had less chances as Buf's O struggled.

Ronnie MAY end up being better but nothing we've seeen so far can tell us that. Willis' '04 was MUCH better than Ronnie's '05.

 

[dominizzo]

BTW Ronnie is 10 times better than Willis

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

4 YPC is good not great, brown was at 4.4, you act like he was at 5.5. 4.4 is very good but it was in part time duty where a big run or 2 can really change the YPC. he had the luxury of d's worrying more about Ricky and the luxury of Ricky wearing D's down a bit. he won't have that this year.

I'm not claiming anything except that 4.4 is BETTER than 4.0. You are the one making all kinds of excuses and rationalizations.

You just stated it yourself:

4 YPC is good
4.4 YPC is very good

Brown is better than McGahee

McGahee was BETTER as a FEATURE back. I'll take .4 less YPC w/ more yards and almost 10 mroe TDs any day of the week.

Riiiggghhhhttt.......

Why don't you discount McGahee's 2004 season because he was lightly used in the first 4 games and had the benefit of being fresher for the rest of the season? If you want to be fair, look at McGahee's performance when he had to carry the load in 2005. His numbers dropped dramatically.

His#s weren't reduced, he was in more passing situations b/c he wasn't carrying it as much. Those #s can easily go down, you can't go from 16 touches a game to 25-30. He'll be worn down by midseason.

WTF? His opportunities to carry the ball and catch the ball aren't reduced when he is splitting time? Can your logic be any more dysfunctional?

Ronnie and Ricky didn't play at the same time. Combine their numbers to see what Brown would have as the feature back. Why will Brown wear down but McGahee will not? You are the most biased person that I have ever debated.

Here are the combined numbers:

375 carries
1650 yards
4.4 YPC
49 receptions
11 TDs

How do you explain Willis having TWICE as many 20+ yd gains in '04 compared to Ronnie's '05?

More carries against a soft schedule. How do you explain Brown's two much longer runs in far fewer carries?

BTW, a 65 yard run shows more explosiveness than a 20 yard run. McGahee gets caught from behind by LBs. He is not the same back that he was in college.

Why do you continue to dismiss Willis' '04 season?

I don't. 4 YPC against a soft schedule is nothing to rave about (though you seem intent on trying).

Is brown a WR? We count rushing TDs when talking running the football and in a bad year Willis still had more. Willis had less chances as Buf's O struggled.

Here is the PROOF that fact and logic are irrelevant for you when you've locked on to an opinion. RECEIVING TDs for a RB count. It is Ronnie versatility that makes him the better back.

 

[nyjunc]

I'm not claiming anything except that 4.4 is BETTER than 4.0. You are the one making all kinds of excuses and rationalizations.

You just stated it yourself:

4 YPC is good
4.4 YPC is very good

Brown is better than McGahee

I guess Blair Thomas after his rookie year was better than Ronnie? I assume you'd admit that since his YPC was FIVE.

back to reality, 4.0 as a feature back is more impressive than 4.4 as a part time player where 1-2 big runs can alter the YPC significantly.

Why don't you discount McGahee's 2004 season because he was lightly used in the first 4 games and had the benefit of being fresher for the rest of the season? If you want to be fair, look at McGahee's performance when he had to carry the load in 2005. His numbers dropped dramatically.

You want to talk fresh? Ronnie has rushed iver 20 times a game THREE times and his career high is 23. in the games willis started in '04 he averaged 23/gm while ronnie averaged 13/gm in his starts.

WTF? His opportunities to carry the ball and catch the ball aren't reduced when he is splitting time? Can your logic be any more dysfunctional?

Why is this so difficult to understand? Ronnie got more recs b/c he wasn't being used to run the ball as much. if you think he's getting all of Ricky's touches you are crazy. Saban is too smart to do that knowing Ronnie has never done it before.

More carries against a soft schedule. How do you explain Brown's two much longer runs in far fewer carries?

soft sched? The div alone was MUCH better in '04. In '04 there was ONE bad team, 1 decent team, 1 good team and 1 great team. In '05 there were TWO bad teams, 1 decent team and 1 good team.

let's review the scheds they faced:

Willis faced:

Mia- ok D
Ari- soft D
NYJ- great D
@ NE- great D
SL- soft D
@ Sea- ok D
@mia- ok D
Cle- ok D
@Cin- ok D
@SF- soft D
Pit- great D

3 great Ds, 5 OK Ds, 3 soft Ds

Ronnie:

Den- Great D
@ NYJ- Soft D
Car- Great D
@ Buf- soft D
@ TB- great D
KC- soft D
@ NO- soft D
ATL- ok D
NE- ok D
@ Cle- ok D
@ Oak- soft D
Buf- soft D
@ SD- ok D
NYJ- soft D
@ NE- ok D

3 greats, 5 ok's, 7 soft's

Tell me which was more difficult?

I don't. 4 YPC against a soft schedule is nothing to rave about (though you seem intent on trying).

see above.

Here is the PROOF that fact and logic are irrelevant for you when you've locked on to an opinion. RECEIVING TDs for a RB count. It is Ronnie versatility that makes him the better back.

how does this prove how versailte he is when he hasn't been a feature back? When he's the feature back and he's also doing it in the passing game get back to me and we'll talk again.

 

[B-LO BABY]

This is ridiculous. McGahee has two back-to-back 1000+ seasons in his first two years and Brown has proven nothing.

Brown had 900 yards and 4 TDs his first year. McGahee had 1128 and 13 TDs in his first season. Brown hasn't even carried the full load of carries since high school.

Brown had six games where he averaged under 3 YPC.
Brown had only three games where he had 20+ carries.
Brown had four games where he carried the ball less than 10 times.
Brown reached the 100-yard mark in only two games.

McGahee played behind arguably the worst line in the league and under the dubious play-calling of Mike Mularkey as well. Regardless, he was a Pro Bowl alternate.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

This is ridiculous. McGahee has two back-to-back 1000+ seasons in his first two years and Brown has proven nothing.

Brown had 900 yards and 4 TDs his first year. McGahee had 1128 and 13 TDs in his first season. Brown hasn't even carried the full load of carries since high school.

Brown had six games where he averaged under 3 YPC.
Brown had only three games where he had 20+ carries.
Brown had four games where he carried the ball less than 10 times.
Brown reached the 100-yard mark in only two games.

McGahee played behind arguably the worst line in the league and under the dubious play-calling of Mike Mularkey as well. Regardless, he was a Pro Bowl alternate.

McGahee has PROVEN to be a back that averages 3.9 YPC and QUITS when the going gets tough. I have confidence that Brown will be better than that. Period.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

I guess Blair Thomas after his rookie year was better than Ronnie? I assume you'd admit that since his YPC was FIVE.

back to reality, 4.0 as a feature back is more impressive than 4.4 as a part time player where 1-2 big runs can alter the YPC significantly.




You want to talk fresh? Ronnie has rushed iver 20 times a game THREE times and his career high is 23. in the games willis started in '04 he averaged 23/gm while ronnie averaged 13/gm in his starts.

WTF? His opportunities to carry the ball and catch the ball aren't reduced when he is splitting time? Can your logic be any more dysfunctional?

Why is this so difficult to understand? Ronnie got more recs b/c he wasn't being used to run the ball as much. if you think he's getting all of Ricky's touches you are crazy. Saban is too smart to do that knowing Ronnie has never done it before.



soft sched? The div alone was MUCH better in '04. In '04 there was ONE bad team, 1 decent team, 1 good team and 1 great team. In '05 there were TWO bad teams, 1 decent team and 1 good team.

let's review the scheds they faced:

Willis faced:

Mia- ok D
Ari- soft D
NYJ- great D
@ NE- great D
SL- soft D
@ Sea- ok D
@mia- ok D
Cle- ok D
@Cin- ok D
@SF- soft D
Pit- great D

3 great Ds, 5 OK Ds, 3 soft Ds

Ronnie:

Den- Great D
@ NYJ- Soft D
Car- Great D
@ Buf- soft D
@ TB- great D
KC- soft D
@ NO- soft D
ATL- ok D
NE- ok D
@ Cle- ok D
@ Oak- soft D
Buf- soft D
@ SD- ok D
NYJ- soft D
@ NE- ok D

3 greats, 5 ok's, 7 soft's

Tell me which was more difficult?




see above.



how does this prove how versailte he is when he hasn't been a feature back? When he's the feature back and he's also doing it in the passing game get back to me and we'll talk again.

blah, blah, blah.....

You really have no idea what you are talking about. Arizona, Cleveland, Miami, St Louis, Seattle, San Fransisco, Cincy were all ranked in the BOTTOM THIRD of the league in rushing defense in 2004. Oh, and you "forgot" to mention that Willis faced the 3rd stringers against the Steelers in the last game of 2004. THAT'S NINE SOFT DEFENSES AGAINST THE RUN. The best of that group in YPC against was SF at 4.0 (who you so brilliantly rank soft).



More inane nonsense to hide the FACT that McGahee has not produced up to expectations. Get back to me when 3.9 YPC is better than 4.4 YPC and when 25 receptions is better than 32 receptions.

 

[ch19079]

McGahee has PROVEN to be a back that averages 3.9 YPC and QUITS when the going gets tough. I have confidence that Brown will be better than that. Period.

i think that is the arguement at hand. you HOPE Brown will be better, but he has not proven it yet.

you can say Brown has more potential right now, but when you talk about who is better you have to look at what they have done. McGahee has "carried the load" for a team, while Brown was just a "change of pace back" who showed some skill in his rookie year.

Im not saying Brown isnt good, he is in fact very good. But you have to at least wait untill he plays as the #1 RB on your team before you can say hes better than McGahee.

 

[burger13]

I love this "change-of-pace" tag.........when a)he STARTED every game he was healthy and b)led the team in rushing attempts and yards.

 

[Colorado Dolfan]

let's review the scheds they faced:

Willis faced:

Mia- ok D
Ari- soft D
NYJ- great D
@ NE- great D
SL- soft D
@ Sea- ok D
@mia- ok D
Cle- ok D
@Cin- ok D
@SF- soft D
Pit- great D

3 great Ds, 5 OK Ds, 3 soft Ds

Ronnie:

Den- Great D
@ NYJ- Soft D
Car- Great D
@ Buf- soft D
@ TB- great D
KC- soft D
@ NO- soft D
ATL- ok D
NE- ok D
@ Cle- ok D
@ Oak- soft D
Buf- soft D
@ SD- ok D
NYJ- soft D
@ NE- ok D

3 greats, 5 ok's, 7 soft's

Tell me which was more difficult?

Can someone please explain to me how NYJ was a great D and NE was a great D when McGahee was running against them, but a NYJ was a soft D and NE was ok D when Ronnie was?:shakeno:

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

i think that is the arguement at hand. you HOPE Brown will be better, but he has not proven it yet.

you can say Brown has more potential right now, but when you talk about who is better you have to look at what they have done. McGahee has "carried the load" for a team, while Brown was just a "change of pace back" who showed some skill in his rookie year.

Im not saying Brown isnt good, he is in fact very good. But you have to at least wait untill he plays as the #1 RB on your team before you can say hes better than McGahee.

Is 4.4 YPC better than 3.9 YPC?

Is 32 receptions better than 25 receptions?

Is a 65 yard run longer than 41 yards?

You are the one who is ASSUMING that a full load by Brown will reduce his numbers to the AVERAGE numbers that McGahee has put up.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

I love this "change-of-pace" tag.........when a)he STARTED every game he was healthy and b)led the team in rushing attempts and yards.

ssshhhhh..... don't let logic ruin he argument

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Can someone please explain to me how NYJ was a great D and NE was a great D when McGahee was running against them, but a NYJ was a soft D and NE was ok D when Ronnie was?:shakeno:

He was comparing different seasons. But, either way, he makes his arguments by fabricating "facts" and "truth".

 

[Colorado Dolfan]

Ahh... gotcha... :wink:

I knew that...:tongue:

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Im not saying Brown isnt good, he is in fact very good. But you have to at least wait untill he plays as the #1 RB on your team before you can say hes better than McGahee.

Well since he was the starter last season, I guess I'm all set then. BTW, the 2nd RB on the Dolphins last year is also better than McGahee.