Breaking News: Judges Rule in favor of NFL

[Chambers34Phins]

So you think they should be required to pass up millions that they'd get in the NFL at this point to play for a college that makes hundreds of thousands of dollars off of their playing ability, and risk injury?

That's really what it boils down to. I'm not going to say they SHOULD leave school, but think of it like this...


What if you were in business college, but had a family business that you had an oppertunity to take over mid-way through your college career. One that would set you for life...

But you can't just leave because colleges and a national business organization were in cahoots and required you to be in school for 2 years before you were able to take over a business?

It would be a risk to drop out of school, passing up the chance at a degree for a business that could flop. You can't bet on that either, yet your free to do so. Now think if your school was making hundreds of thousands of dollars per year because your GOING to school. ANd in the period it takes for you to get your elegibility, you might not be able to take over that business (like a football player getting injured).

Have to put yourself in their shoes to really judge the situation.

You can't compare a sport that you can get hit the wrong way on one play and never walk again to working in a business. Sure, it sucks passing up the millions of dollars you MAY get.... but who's to say, you pan out... you come in early dont pan out.... your shot is over... you have nothing to fall back on, those millions are gone.

 

[Chambers34Phins]

I frankly think you just made the case for why guys should be able to go NFL out of high school better than you did anything. Why go to college and play for nothing where you can destroy your money making potential due to injury-- it happens to plenty of guys every year. If I am talented enough to do both, and I go NFL then I have plenty of money to get a real education on my terms in the event my career ends tragically. If I go to college and my career gets ended like Kelley Washington's almost did, then I have part of an "education" that is really just a justification for my football playing and no money to start a business or get a real education with.

The student athlete isn't dead, but he is almost extinct in the world of college football. Even the athlete student is getting rarer...

I am making the point that I dongt feel their bodies are ready for the NFL. They are doing great in college, but that doesn't mean they will do great in the NFL. you can point out a lot of failuries with the success stories. If they leave college early, walk into the nfl and either get hurt, or just plan can't take the physical play of hte nfl or dont live up to their potential.... they have nothing to fall back on.

 

[Dphins4me]

I'm just saying go to school.... I know they want to play bad, but you can't bank your life on a football career. If he gets injured, where do they go from there, where do they fall back? Just finish school, get your education, and get the experience you need. No need to rush life.

For the millions Williams is going to get why do you need an education to fall back on? If he manages his money right then after he signs his first deal he is set for life.

Also why is this not a huge problem for kids coming out of HS and playing professional baseball? You can always go back to school, you do not always have someone willing to pay you millions of dollars.

 

[Jimmy James]

In that case, would you not agree that the NFL has just as compelling an interest in keeping a guy with 0 years of NCAA eligibility left who just isn't ready for the NFL as they do in keeping a guy with 3 years of NCAA eligibility who isn't ready out? What on earth does the number of years away from high school have to do with it? To me, this all comes down to the NFL's reasoning either being very flawed or being a total sham. Either way, the NFL should be made to create a test that matches up to this reasoning you're advocating. I'm actually not really against that just as long as who is "ready" is based on science and not "this seems about right".

 

[Chambers34Phins]

I see your point Jimmy, I'm just going to be thick headed about this because I always believe education comes first, and I am not going to budge from that standpoint. They have waited years for the millions, they can't wait a few more.

As for the other guy, I see it as more of a problem for football just b/c it is more likely not to work out, football is a physical sport, if you get hurt, if it's int he contract you don't collect all of the money if it is incentive based.

But either way I think school comes first... .sports comes second.

 

[Dphins4me]

I am making the point that I dongt feel their bodies are ready for the NFL. They are doing great in college, but that doesn't mean they will do great in the NFL. you can point out a lot of failuries with the success stories. If they leave college early, walk into the nfl and either get hurt, or just plan can't take the physical play of hte nfl or dont live up to their potential.... they have nothing to fall back on.

So the fact that Terrel Suggs is only 8 days older than Clarett and has already played a full season in the NFL has no bearing on this?

The NFL is basically saying an 18 year old can play in the NFL if he graduated HS at the age of 15, but a 22 year old cannot play if he graduated HS at 20. You think this makes sense?

Also why is there no outcry for the thousand of men playing professional baseball at the minor league level that never went to college? What do they have to fall back on?

Just because you can play a sport, does not mean you want to go to college.

 

[Dphins4me]

I see your point Jimmy, I'm just going to be thick headed about this because I always believe education comes first, and I am not going to budge from that standpoint. They have waited years for the millions, they can't wait a few more.

As for the other guy, I see it as more of a problem for football just b/c it is more likely not to work out, football is a physical sport, if you get hurt, if it's int he contract you don't collect all of the money if it is incentive based.

But either way I think school comes first... .sports comes second.

And what happens if they go back to college and blow out a knee and can never play again? Then the college CAN (Not that they will, but they can)pull their scholarship.

I love the fact that people who are not getting the money, say they can wait. If you won the lotto and they told you that since you have waited years to win, you can wait a few more. I bet you would not agree with the decision those people made for you.

Education comes first when you do not have someone handing you millions of dollars that can set you up for life. Get the money, go back to school when your career is over and be a professional student if you want. Be smart and get the cash and do not blow it.

 

[Jimmy James]

Trust me, I understand where you're coming from when you value education. I wouldn't be in professsional school now if it were any other way.

I just have to wonder: what makes you think even 10% of the guys in this situation actually get anything out of the "education" they get? This is a lot like the guys who argue that guys like L. James should have gone to college for a year or two to get education. What is a year of college really going to do for him? It seems to me that all it would teach him is how to party in the offseason and just how eager schools are to see him do well so he can play basketball.

As somebody who is in a very challenging course of study a decade after I first went to college and blew it because I wasn't jazzed about being there, I can tell you that you only get out of college as much as you put into it. While the diploma has huge cultural value, it really is the skills honed and the knowledge gained that make college worthwhile.

 

[Chambers34Phins]

So the fact that Terrel Suggs is only 8 days older than Clarett and has already played a full season in the NFL has no bearing on this?

The NFL is basically saying an 18 year old can play in the NFL if he graduated HS at the age of 15, but a 22 year old cannot play if he graduated HS at 20. You think this makes sense?

Also why is there no outcry for the thousand of men playing professional baseball at the minor league level that never went to college? What do they have to fall back on?

Just because you can play a sport, does not mean you want to go to college.

Just b/c you can play a sport doesn't mean you shouldn't go to college. The baseball players hae nothing to fall back on.... i never said they did.

 

[Chambers34Phins]

Trust me, I understand where you're coming from when you value education. I wouldn't be in professsional school now if it were any other way.

I just have to wonder: what makes you think even 10% of the guys in this situation actually get anything out of the "education" they get? This is a lot like the guys who argue that guys like L. James should have gone to college for a year or two to get education. What is a year of college really going to do for him? It seems to me that all it would teach him is how to party in the offseason and just how eager schools are to see him do well so he can play basketball.

As somebody who is in a very challenging course of study a decade after I first went to college and blew it because I wasn't jazzed about being there, I can tell you that you only get out of college as much as you put into it. While the diploma has huge cultural value, it really is the skills honed and the knowledge gained that make college worthwhile.

Your right you get what you put into it. I just think getting your college degree is something very important it is a great accomplishment. I think they should go to college an study something that interests them so when their career is over at the age of 38 or 40, they have something else they can do. You never know what could happen, they could lose their money somehow. Not make it that many years in the nfl, and not have the money to live a good life.

 

[Jimmy James]

Your right you get what you put into it. I just think getting your college degree is something very important it is a great accomplishment. I think they should go to college an study something that interests them so when their career is over at the age of 38 or 40, they have something else they can do. You never know what could happen, they could lose their money somehow. Not make it that many years in the nfl, and not have the money to live a good life.

Even the NFL doesn't have the guts to suggest everybody that enters should get a degree. In fact, there are tons of "seniors" who don't actually graduate to go along with the redshirt Sophomores and the Juniors who exit early. What you want to see accomplished is admirable, but it's apparently not what the NFL wants accomplished. The NFL just wants a free farm system, and I'm going to continue to believe that unless they create a more practicable standard that operates along age or preferably skill/readiness testing lines.

 

[Dphins4me]

Just b/c you can play a sport doesn't mean you shouldn't go to college. The baseball players hae nothing to fall back on.... i never said they did.

Who says they wanted to go to college to begin with?

Also what good is a degree you get at age 22 when you play 10 years in the NFL? How much of what you learned are you going to retain?

 

[Chambers34Phins]

Even the NFL doesn't have the guts to suggest everybody that enters should get a degree. In fact, there are tons of "seniors" who don't actually graduate to go along with the redshirt Sophomores and the Juniors who exit early. What you want to see accomplished is admirable, but it's apparently not what the NFL wants accomplished. The NFL just wants a free farm system, and I'm going to continue to believe that unless they create a more practicable standard that operates along age or preferably skill/readiness testing lines.

I think we seperated on what we are talking about, I was no longer talking about the NFL's rule, they would never say you have to get a degree to enter the NFL... that is not even a question... I just switched what I was takling about without letting anyone know I guess lol.

 

[Chambers34Phins]

Who says they wanted to go to college to begin with?

Also what good is a degree you get at age 22 when you play 10 years in the NFL? How much of what you learned are you going to retain?

I am just saying they should go to college. Are you still in highschool? I'm just wondering becuase I am getting the perception that you don't know what college is like, and that is the place where you start studying the things you are going to do later in life, not what the high school tells you to take. The choices are all yours.... you take accounting classes if you want to be an accountant. It's always good to have a back up plan. Who is to say they are going to have 10 good years in the nfl? OR that they will even get the chance to start.... You are assuming all of these players are going to come into the league, and sign 5 year 75 million dollar contracts of garunteed money.... they aren't. They get injured in the first year and their career is over? they have nothing to fall back on... Or they get injured and don't get all the money in the contract. I'm just saying you can't bank your life on a football career, and that's what you seem to do. you think that all of these guys are going to pan out that want to enter early, that they arne't going to get hurt, and they are garunteed money... Look at guys like Crouch... warner... everyone thought warner would keep up his good skills, and look what happened now... the guy that won a superbowl lost his job to bulger, and teams have little interest in him. Leaf was supposed to be awesome.... that worked out well. I'm saying you don't know what is going to happen in the NFL...

 

[FinaciousOne]

How can two parties negotiate the right of a third party? I do not believe this is something that the CBA can address.

Easy. First you're assuming that playing in the NFL is anybody's right. It's not. It's an opportunity that all may not be entitled to have. Imagine I own a Retail Store and I need to staff it with personnel. Instead of going out and contracting individually with each employee, I negotiate with a Union or a Staffing Subcontractor to staff my store. While they negotiate rules as to salary, behavior, work requirements etc I can also negotiate requirements as to qualifications, education, criminal background and experience. Once we agree on terms of our agreement, if new potential employees want to work in my Store, I have to honor my contract with the Staffing Subcontractor or Union and refer the individual to them. If they want to work in my store, they have to qualify and get hired into the Staffing Sub; I can't hire them directly. The original rules to qualify have either been agreed upon by the Union members or the Staffing Sub. In the current NFL situation, the 3 years out of high school rule was added wtih the Players Union's Official approval but not as part of the CBA that was voted on by the players. Thats why there's a case.