Breaking News: Judges Rule in favor of NFL

[Chambers34Phins]

Easy. First you're assuming that playing in the NFL is anybody's right. It's not. It's an opportunity that all may not be entitled to have. Imagine I own a Retail Store and I need to staff it with personnel. Instead of going out and contracting individually with each employee, I negotiate with a Union or a Staffing Subcontractor to staff my store. While they negotiate rules as to salary, behavior, work requirements etc I can also negotiate requirements as to qualifications, education, criminal background and experience. Once we agree on terms of our agreement, if new potential employees want to work in my Store, I have to honor my contract with the Staffing Subcontractor or Union and refer the individual to them. If they want to work in my store, they have to qualify and get hired into the Staffing Sub; I can't hire them directly. The original rules to qualify have either been agreed upon by the Union members or the Staffing Sub. In the current NFL situation, the 3 years out of high school rule was added wtih the Players Union's Official approval but not as part of the CBA that was voted on by the players. Thats why there's a case.

Very well written.

 

[Dphins4me]

I am just saying they should go to college. Are you still in highschool? I'm just wondering becuase I am getting the perception that you don't know what college is like, and that is the place where you start studying the things you are going to do later in life, not what the high school tells you to take. The choices are all yours.... you take accounting classes if you want to be an accountant. It's always good to have a back up plan. Who is to say they are going to have 10 good years in the nfl? OR that they will even get the chance to start.... You are assuming all of these players are going to come into the league, and sign 5 year 75 million dollar contracts of garunteed money.... they aren't. They get injured in the first year and their career is over? they have nothing to fall back on... Or they get injured and don't get all the money in the contract. I'm just saying you can't bank your life on a football career, and that's what you seem to do. you think that all of these guys are going to pan out that want to enter early, that they arne't going to get hurt, and they are garunteed money... Look at guys like Crouch... warner... everyone thought warner would keep up his good skills, and look what happened now... the guy that won a superbowl lost his job to bulger, and teams have little interest in him. Leaf was supposed to be awesome.... that worked out well. I'm saying you don't know what is going to happen in the NFL...

First off. I'm an almost 38 year old. Done the college scene.

Second. If you are a mid round pick, then get a degree. If you are a first round pick then take the money, keep your money and go back to school when its over. If you get hurt and your career is over. You have the millions paid to you in your signing bonus. Its all about being smart.

Or you could invest it wisely and live off that bonus for the rest of your life. Jake Scott has never worked a day since retiring from the NFL. Why? He did not waste his money, and we all know they did not make nearly as much as they do now.

 

[Dphins4me]

Easy. First you're assuming that playing in the NFL is anybody's right. It's not. It's an opportunity that all may not be entitled to have. Imagine I own a Retail Store and I need to staff it with personnel. Instead of going out and contracting individually with each employee, I negotiate with a Union or a Staffing Subcontractor to staff my store. While they negotiate rules as to salary, behavior, work requirements etc I can also negotiate requirements as to qualifications, education, criminal background and experience. Once we agree on terms of our agreement, if new potential employees want to work in my Store, I have to honor my contract with the Staffing Subcontractor or Union and refer the individual to them. If they want to work in my store, they have to qualify and get hired into the Staffing Sub; I can't hire them directly. The original rules to qualify have either been agreed upon by the Union members or the Staffing Sub. In the current NFL situation, the 3 years out of high school rule was added wtih the Players Union's Official approval but not as part of the CBA that was voted on by the players. Thats why there's a case.

All the things you listed are not age related and if you tried to enforce it and someone called your hand on it, then you would lose. Collectively Bargined Discrimination is no more legal than sole discrimination.

 

[FinaciousOne]

All the things you listed are not age related and if you tried to enforce it and someone called your hand on it, then you would lose. Collectively Bargined Discrimination is no more legal than sole discrimination.

First of all the NFL situation is not an age discrimination case under The Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967(ADEA). It is an anti-trust claim based on a technicality of how the rule was instituted. They made no claim of age discrimination, and they don’t contest the right to establish a minimum age requirement for the NFL. In fact the rule in question is not even an “age†rule.
You are making the common mistake of confusing age discrimination with youth discrimination, which is sometimes referred to as “reverse discriminationâ€Â. The ADEA of 1967 forbids discrimination against persons over the age of 40. Various minimum age requirements abound everywhere in our society. For example, to enter the priesthood, 30 is considered the normative age at which a man obtains sufficient maturity to intellectually integrate knowledge with life experience to potentially reflect wisdom. Many jobs require a minimum are of 18. The law was enacted to protect older people from being discriminated against in favor of youth, not to protect young people from being discriminated against in favor of older ones. Even the U.S. Constitution has a minimum age requirement to hold offices such as President (35), Senator (30), representative (25). A recent U.S. Supreme court decision reaffirms this:

The US Supreme Court has decided General Dynamics v. Cline, ruling that the Age Discrimination in Employment Act does not authorize reverse discrimination claims and thus permits employers to favor older employees over younger ones in the statute’s protected class. While the decision applies to all employment actions – including hiring, firing, force reductions, promotions, and job assignments – it is particularly good news for employers with retiree health plans, early retirement incentives, and other benefit programs that base eligibility on satisfying minimum age requirements. (4/7/04)

To illustrate, suppose I own a business with 20 employees, business is bad and I need to layoff 10 workers. If I fire the 10 oldest workers ranging in age from 40 to 60 who may also happen to get paid more and keep the 10 youngest, I can pretty well expect 10 EEOC claims. On the contrary, if I decide that I want to keep the older more experienced workers and fire the 10 younger, inexperienced workers, if they are under age 40 they don’t even have standing to make a claim.
Valuable experience usually comes with age therefore if the law prevented discriminating against youth it could be used against employer’s discriminating against inexperience.
The NFL and the players can renegotiate the issue of qualifications for the draft to include experience in organized football such as college, arena, Europe or a minimum age requirement and do it properly if they decide to if the current case goes against them.

 

[Chambers34Phins]

First off. I'm an almost 38 year old. Done the college scene.

Second. If you are a mid round pick, then get a degree. If you are a first round pick then take the money, keep your money and go back to school when its over. If you get hurt and your career is over. You have the millions paid to you in your signing bonus. Its all about being smart.

Or you could invest it wisely and live off that bonus for the rest of your life. Jake Scott has never worked a day since retiring from the NFL. Why? He did not waste his money, and we all know they did not make nearly as much as they do now.

Ok, sorry to ask ifyou are in highschool, there was no insult intended, I don't think you took any but please don't if you didn't yet.

You make a very valid point, I agree some what. But today's world is different... if they save their money... they will be all set. But a hot shot coming in early is going to spend his money like it's going out of style. Fast cars... fast women, hopefully not drugs... but it happens all to often.

I suppose you could go if you were going to be a top 5 pick, as long as your going to go back and get a degree... I just feel it's to important to pass up... and it's always nice to do something when your done with football. If you have to or not.

 

[Dphins4me]

Ok, sorry to ask ifyou are in highschool, there was no insult intended, I don't think you took any but please don't if you didn't yet.

You make a very valid point, I agree some what. But today's world is different... if they save their money... they will be all set. But a hot shot coming in early is going to spend his money like it's going out of style. Fast cars... fast women, hopefully not drugs... but it happens all to often.

I suppose you could go if you were going to be a top 5 pick, as long as your going to go back and get a degree... I just feel it's to important to pass up... and it's always nice to do something when your done with football. If you have to or not.

I did not take it that way. I've ask that question several time. Just gives you a gage on the thinking.

Like I previously said. Its all about being smart. It does not matter if you are 18 or 28. If you are not smart with your money then you will lose it.

Granted most of these guys are not looking at the future, until its too late. However forcing someone to stay in school to get a degree in General Studies only hurts a kid that actually want to go to school to get a degree.

I guess we have established there is no easy answer to this.

 

[Dphins4me]

First of all the NFL situation is not an age discrimination case under The Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967(ADEA). It is an anti-trust claim based on a technicality of how the rule was instituted. They made no claim of age discrimination, and they don’t contest the right to establish a minimum age requirement for the NFL. In fact the rule in question is not even an “age†rule.
You are making the common mistake of confusing age discrimination with youth discrimination, which is sometimes referred to as “reverse discriminationâ€Â. The ADEA of 1967 forbids discrimination against persons over the age of 40. Various minimum age requirements abound everywhere in our society. For example, to enter the priesthood, 30 is considered the normative age at which a man obtains sufficient maturity to intellectually integrate knowledge with life experience to potentially reflect wisdom. Many jobs require a minimum are of 18. The law was enacted to protect older people from being discriminated against in favor of youth, not to protect young people from being discriminated against in favor of older ones. Even the U.S. Constitution has a minimum age requirement to hold offices such as President (35), Senator (30), representative (25). A recent U.S. Supreme court decision reaffirms this:

The US Supreme Court has decided General Dynamics v. Cline, ruling that the Age Discrimination in Employment Act does not authorize reverse discrimination claims and thus permits employers to favor older employees over younger ones in the statute’s protected class. While the decision applies to all employment actions – including hiring, firing, force reductions, promotions, and job assignments – it is particularly good news for employers with retiree health plans, early retirement incentives, and other benefit programs that base eligibility on satisfying minimum age requirements. (4/7/04)

To illustrate, suppose I own a business with 20 employees, business is bad and I need to layoff 10 workers. If I fire the 10 oldest workers ranging in age from 40 to 60 who may also happen to get paid more and keep the 10 youngest, I can pretty well expect 10 EEOC claims. On the contrary, if I decide that I want to keep the older more experienced workers and fire the 10 younger, inexperienced workers, if they are under age 40 they don’t even have standing to make a claim.
Valuable experience usually comes with age therefore if the law prevented discriminating against youth it could be used against employer’s discriminating against inexperience.
The NFL and the players can renegotiate the issue of qualifications for the draft to include experience in organized football such as college, arena, Europe or a minimum age requirement and do it properly if they decide to if the current case goes against them.

I guess where I see a difference is all those restrictions are for people who will be leaders of others. This is simply playing a football game.

No matter what they decide. I do not believe it is right to keep people out based on nothing other than a number pulled out of the air. To me the NFL should need proof that a man of 20 is not ready to play in the NFL.

But I find it odd that the courts do not see a huge difference in the NFL stance that a man of 21 years old this year is not able to play, when a man of 20 last year was able and won rookie honors.

However I sure the NFL will have the rule twisted just enough to get by.

 

[SuavePhin]

What about the answer to this??? Does the NCAA let Williams and Clarret back in, even though they already have signed with agents?? this should be interesting

 

[FinaciousOne]

No matter what they decide. I do not believe it is right to keep people out based on nothing other than a number pulled out of the air. To me the NFL should need proof that a man of 20 is not ready to play in the NFL.

But I find it odd that the courts do not see a huge difference in the NFL stance that a man of 21 years old this year is not able to play, when a man of 20 last year was able and won rookie honors.

However I sure the NFL will have the rule twisted just enough to get by.

I agree that the NFL and the Players Assoc need to put a lot of serious thought into the rules that establish qualifications to be a player. It is not possible to determine an age above which all young men are mature enough mentally and physically to endure the requirements of the NFL and below which none are able. That is probably why they never have.

There are several competing interests at play in establishing the qualifications. The NFL benefits from the NCAA programs by not having to fully fund a farm system to train, develope and give experience to young potential players. For the NFL to start pulling talent too young from the NCAA hurts their programs and creates conflict in a mutually beneficial arrangement. Many consider the quality of the player coming out of a complete NCAA program higher due to experience being added to there natural talent and therefore giving them a better chance to succeed in the NFL. The NFL doesn't want to burn these young players by putting them in situations where they fail. The NFL though wants to sell tickets and wants young players who will be successful as soon as possible. There are durability questions from medical people who point to the fact that men are still developing biologically, bones still growing, bone density, etc for such physical contact as the NFL. It is not an easy question.

 

[FinaciousOne]

What about the answer to this??? Does the NCAA let Williams and Clarret back in, even though they already have signed with agents?? this should be interesting

That's a good question. I'm not familiar with the NCAA rules and the process to apply for waivers to the rules. I agree, it should be interesting.