Calling Boomer and CK!

[fishypete]

A guy could get beat on every single play without giving up a sack as long as the quarterback rushes the throw before he gets planted. That doesn't make the player great because he didn't give up a sack. Getting beat still results in the play being rushed before it has time to develop.

Well under your example...Carey gets beaten like a drum...the idea is not to let the QB be sacked. Perhaps the QB is taking too much time...perhaps the running back didn't help....just way too many things to list that can and do go wrong. Not even Pace was perfect...under your example...we're talking about players...not the Berlin Wall.

 

[Ghetti13]

Carey does not get beaten like a drum, but that is a conversation for another time.

What good is a left tackle who does not give up sacks (and I am not saying that will be the case with Long, but for illustrative purposes) but never allows his quarterback to set in the pocket and let things open up? Should we build our offense around two step drops and five yard outs to protect Jake Long? Is that what essence you are saying? Because disagreeing with the previous poster would lead one to that conclusion.

In addition, I believe the key point is that a player who gets beat in college but fails to give up a sack may not be able to have the same success at the next level where defenders are stronger and faster. In essence, at the next level, an argument can be made that he will not only get beat, but also give up the sack.

 

[mpn1334]

Well under your example...Carey gets beaten like a drum...the idea is not to let the QB be sacked. Perhaps the QB is taking too much time...perhaps the running back didn't help....just way too many things to list that can and do go wrong. Not even Pace was perfect...under your example...we're talking about players...not the Berlin Wall.

There's not much difference between giving up a sack or getting beat having the play disrupted because you couldn't effectively block the opposing teams best rush end or linebacker, which Jake Long will face game in and game out, play in and play out.

And Carey wasn't drafted #1 overall nor was he drafted to play left tackle.

 

[fishypete]

Carey does not get beaten like a drum, but that is a conversation for another time.

What good is a left tackle who does not give up sacks (and I am not saying that will be the case with Long, but for illustrative purposes) but never allows his quarterback to set in the pocket and let things open up? Should we build our offense around two step drops and five yard outs to protect Jake Long? Is that what essence you are saying? Because disagreeing with the previous poster would lead one to that conclusion.

In addition, I believe the key point is that a player who gets beat in college but fails to give up a sack may not be able to have the same success at the next level where defenders are stronger and faster. In essence, at the next level, an argument can be made that he will not only get beat, but also give up the sack.

Like I said...it's assumption and nothing more. Just like assuming that C. Long will be a great Linebacker...just like Beck will be a great QB. The problem I see is you have fans that watch film...but never played the game...so what good is there opinion? About as good as those who said J. Allen was the best player for the Dolphins. You can argue about every player that has come out and will come out..but the facts are the facts...J. Long is the best Tackle in this draft...he's not a project...he's not a hope and wish...and we need a LT...more than an expensive QB or out of place Linebacker...no matter who was his Father.

 

[nick1]

I want Chris Long

 

[Ghetti13]

Like I said...it's assumption and nothing more. Just like assuming that C. Long will be a great Linebacker...just like Beck will be a great QB. The problem I see is you have fans that watch film...but never played the game...so what good is there opinion? About as good as those who said J. Allen was the best player for the Dolphins. You can argue about every player that has come out and will come out..but the facts are the facts...J. Long is the best Tackle in this draft...he's not a project...he's not a hope and wish...and we need a LT...more than an expensive QB or out of place Linebacker...no matter who was his Father.

I am not making an assumption. I am making a presumption. The difference is that I am coming to an opinion based on prior knowledge in the form of watching three of his game tapes over and over again. I wish I had more and that certainly does not make me right. But at least it makes me informed enough to make my own decision on the man. At least I tried.

I did not simply rest on what others in the media told me. I did not simply watch how he worked out at the combine and parlay those numbers into success in the professional ranks. I did not base my opinion on the times I watched him in passing while the game was live.

Also, you might want to stay away from telling people they don't know football and that their opinion means nothing. It looks a lot like a cop out people use when they simply are not informed enough to make a valuable argument on the merits.

 

[fishypete]

I am not making an assumption. I am making a presumption. The difference is that I am coming to an opinion based on prior knowledge in the form of watching three of his game tapes over and over again. I wish I had more and that certainly does not make me right. But at least it makes me informed enough to make my own decision on the man. At least I tried.

I did not simply rest on what others in the media told me. I did not simply watch how he worked out at the combine and parlay those numbers into success in the professional ranks. I did not base my opinion on the times I watched him in passing while the game was live.

Also, you might want to stay away from telling people they don't know football and that their opinion means nothing. It looks a lot like a cop out people use when they simply are not informed enough to make a valuable argument on the merits.

Not every scout agree's...not every GM agree's on players...and they have decades of experience on players...and watching film. I could care less on what ANY fan see's or thinks he see's while watching film. The draft isn't a science...it's an art....no one is perfect...no one is always right or wrong.

 

[Ghetti13]

Whose opinion do you care about?

 

[fishypete]

Whose opinion do you care about?

As a fan...my own, as you should care about your opinion..as a fan.

The only difference is...I've been here long enough to know..that fans are like sheep...one guy says...this guy is great...I've watched him on film...and many say Baaa.

The only opinion that counts, is the opinion that makes the picks...and if you look at the latest history of the Dolphins...they aren't very good. Lets hope Parcells and Co. do better...no matter who they choose.

 

[Ghetti13]

That begs the question. How does one come to an informed opinion on a player without having broken down film on him? In essence, wouldn't that make anyone who does not break down film and come to their own conclusion one of these sheep you are describing.

Given that, it seems pretty clear that the only people that would not be sheep would be those who actually watch tape and come to their own conclusion. Everyone else would simply sheep to the media. Wouldn't that be accurate?

 

[Vendigo]

It also begs the question of what he's doing in a board full of sheep whose opinion he doesn't care about. Apart from calling them names and telling them that he doesn't give a rodent's behind about what they say, that is.

 

[RaboGrande24]

Would you like to fly that past me again...he got beat...but didn't give up a sack...Hmmm.

dude are you serious? C'mon man ive read some of your other posts and i typically agree with them but this ones absurd...im not a genius but cmon if the play doesnt develop then how are you supposed to run it properly...a LT is supposed to protect the QB and allow him time to make the proper read without running for his life

 

[Two Tacos]

As a fan...my own, as you should care about your opinion..as a fan.

The only difference is...I've been here long enough to know..that fans are like sheep...one guy says...this guy is great...I've watched him on film...and many say Baaa.

The only opinion that counts, is the opinion that makes the picks...and if you look at the latest history of the Dolphins...they aren't very good. Lets hope Parcells and Co. do better...no matter who they choose.

You've taken the time to write 10,000+ posts for sheep whose opinion doesn't count?

Why?

 

[VanDolPhan]

Would you like to fly that past me again...he got beat...but didn't give up a sack...Hmmm.

I was in the same boat as you but they recently showed Michigan's QB highlights and what it really showed was Jake Long getting beaten by speed guys often where he would have taken a few more sacks had it not been for Michigan's QB having a quick awareness he was going to get smoked and getting the ball out.

I think Jake Long might be in the same boat as Robert Gallery and some other highly touted Tackles. He may need to work at RT for a year before moving over. Excellent run blocker and solid pass blocking inside, but anyone with some speed is going to get around him on the outside. I could see Freeney whipping him Wade Smith style, but burying a Julius Peppers type.

 

[fishypete]

I was in the same boat as you but they recently showed Michigan's QB highlights and what it really showed was Jake Long getting beaten by speed guys often where he would have taken a few more sacks had it not been for Michigan's QB having a quick awareness he was going to get smoked and getting the ball out.

I think Jake Long might be in the same boat as Robert Gallery and some other highly touted Tackles. He may need to work at RT for a year before moving over. Excellent run blocker and solid pass blocking inside, but anyone with some speed is going to get around him on the outside. I could see Freeney whipping him Wade Smith style, but burying a Julius Peppers type.

We see that now with Carey...don't we? Every Tackle has flaws...none are perfect. That why they have the term "a sack"! As long as the Dolphins will be a running team with the new offense...having a finese pass blocker isn't need as much. Look at F. Adams...no one will mistake him for a great pass blocker...but he's not there to be one...he's there to be a decent pass blocker and a great run blocker.