Charles Harris Traded. | Page 17 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Charles Harris Traded.

I'm not sure how the message keeps getting lost on you, but Grier hasn't had the power you think he does. Hell, you are even contradicting yourself, by giving him equal blame no matter what position title he held.

You blame him for everything. Fine, do that, enjoy yourself, live in your absurdly binary world all you want, but why try to argue that with everyone else? I mean if you only see three shapes and like two colors in the world, why argue that's all there is with people who see more?

It's amazing, really. Dude didn't have final say from the beginning, yet he's responsible for everything. Next time I have an issue with a company, I'm not going to managment. I'm going right to the team lead! Because that makes sense.
 
There are two different things being argued by you:

1. Grier is mostly responsible for Harris.
2. Grier is mostly responsible for the players we've drafted since before he even had the title of GM.

I never argued #1, because I don't know, neither do you, neither does any of us.
#2, is what I've argued with. I've argued it because you seem to be under the impression that Grier has been responsible for all the picks made, when he hasn't. All we know for sure is that he is responsible for the team since last year, when Ross actually put him in charge of the football side of things. He chose the coach. He chooses the players for that coach.

Before, Tbaum would have more say than him as his boss and the coaches (he didn't pick) would effectively have more say than him because they were chosen by his boss and it was his job to help them succeed. That means giving them the tools they request. You are talking about assigning blame as if it is a constant percentage of fault. For all you know, Grier had Harris ranked as the 5th best DE, and Gase or Tbaum punted the table for him to be picked where he was, again, you don't know & I don't know. Since we don't know, then how much blame can be assigned to him? Your argument is based on your incorrect perception that the title General Manager carries the same duties and power across the NFL.

Now, he has no one overwriting him. Now the coach he has to give tools too, is the coach he picked, so if the coach is wrong, then that falls on Grier.

Ask yourself, how can Grier's responsibilities change and his actual titles change, but the amount of blame he deserves for things good or bad, doesn't.

A clear and well presented post.

If the big "D" fails to respond to this with an equally meaningful argument, he is not likely to be receptive to any pertinent information that doesn't match his biases.

We will see.
 
Grier has hit on 3 out of 4 first round picks since becoming the GM.

I think it's pretty early to say that. Not to mention he already treated one of the pics for a lower pick. But I was more that's referring to Charles Harris which nobody can claim is a good pick
 
Charles Harris has been hotly debated for sure. I bet other teams message boards get lite up with hotly debated players and GM decisions as well. The bottom line, Ross kept Grier, it's as simple as that. We'll never know the reasoning behind his decision. Charles Harris had teams fooled, it happens every year. Some Players just don't pan out once drafted into the NFL. He's gone now, good luck to him. He just didn't have the goods. If Miami hits on Boise State's Weaver, all will be forgotten.
 
I think it's pretty early to say that. Not to mention he already treated one of the pics for a lower pick. But I was more that's referring to Charles Harris which nobody can claim is a good pick

I don't understand what your point is exactly when you say the players were traded. Are they good players or not good players?

Also, who is saying Charles Harris was a good pick? Yes, he's a bust. What's your point in mentioning it? Everyone knows. It's been beaten to death.
 
I don't understand what your point is exactly when you say the players were traded. Are they good players or not good players?

Also, who is saying Charles Harris was a good pick? Yes, he's a bust. What's your point in mentioning it? Everyone knows. It's been beaten to death.

saying they are no longer fins. You could make the case easily we got great value for Tunsil but not so much with Minkah Fitzpatrick.
A draft is also not the first round. 2016 Nailed the first two picks not much else. 2017 horrible draft. 2018 still being determined same as 2019.

nobody was arguing that Harris was a horrible pick it was the deflection of blame away from grier for the pick by some or acting like getting a 7th redeems it.

What started this whole convo was if a new GM came in and got a 7th for a guy he had nothing to do with then maybe its a positive but not from the gm that threw a 1st round pick on him.
 
At least you got something. What a horrible pick. Never draft a Mizzou player again.

Ya it’s looking that way huh? Very unimpressive list of recent players selected from Mizzou, across the entire league. Not just us.

I’m sure there are 1 or 2 quality former Tigers players I’m not thinking of but by large very lackluster pro’s.
 
saying they are no longer fins. You could make the case easily we got great value for Tunsil but not so much with Minkah Fitzpatrick.
A draft is also not the first round. 2016 Nailed the first two picks not much else. 2017 horrible draft. 2018 still being determined same as 2019.

nobody was arguing that Harris was a horrible pick it was the deflection of blame away from grier for the pick by some or acting like getting a 7th redeems it.

What started this whole convo was if a new GM came in and got a 7th for a guy he had nothing to do with then maybe its a positive but not from the gm that threw a 1st round pick on him.
Assign a definitive percentage of blame too Grier for drafting Harris.
 
Assign a definitive percentage of blame too Grier for drafting Harris.

None of us can much like we cannot assign percentage of appreciation for any pick.
A draft is not about one person, teams have scouts and other people involved its not just one person that ignores everything else and is a mastermind.
 
None of us can much like we cannot assign percentage of appreciation for any pick.
A draft is not about one person, teams have scouts and other people involved its not just one person that ignores everything else and is a mastermind.
So then, WADR, why are stomping around demanding blame be assigned? If it can be anything from 1-100%, then assigning blame is literally meaningless.
 
Ya it’s looking that way huh? Very unimpressive list of recent players selected from Mizzou, across the entire league. Not just us.

I’m sure there are 1 or 2 quality former Tigers players I’m not thinking of but by large very lackluster pro’s.
Shelden Richardson is the best of recent memory
 
According to Grier, 100%

Still doesn't matter though. Show me a GM who never had a 1st round pick bust.
I am with you that it doesn't matter, as all GMs miss.

But that's not the point of the discussion I'm having. Also, him taking blame doesn't mean it actually happened that way. My wife dropped a heinous fart in the car with friends and I took responsibility so she wouldn't have too.
 
So then, WADR, why are stomping around demanding blame be assigned? If it can be anything from 1-100%, then assigning blame is literally meaningless.

I never argued percentage of blame I argued as GM blame lies with him no matter what. Noone can know who lobbied for what
 
I never argued percentage of blame I argued as GM blame lies with him no matter what. Noone can know who lobbied for what
Yes I know that's what you are saying.......

I am pointing out that since you cannot assign an amount of blame, then assigning it is pointless. For all you know, he was 2% responsible, which means getting a 7th in return is still impressive. And further, if you entire argument hinges on the title of GM, then your argument is even more flawed, because GM doesn't mean the same thing to all teams.
 
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