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CK's Mocking the Mock

The watson pick is interesting but if his combine is umimpressive im pretty sure we can grab him at last 15 picks or so later. Hes a similar talent to Vince Wilfork except he needs a constant kick in the hindparts
 
Boik14 said:
The watson pick is interesting but if his combine is umimpressive im pretty sure we can grab him at last 15 picks or so later. Hes a similar talent to Vince Wilfork except he needs a constant kick in the hindparts
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Well if Lendale White slips to us then we should be able to move back in the 1st and get some value if Saban believes he can still get a high quality player later in the 1st.
 
If we traded down, I would be REAL nervous about KC taking Watson at #20. If he slips by them then I can't imagine he gets by Cincy at #24.
 
Kudos to unifiedtheory you said it better than I could. The Wannstedt years have left us perennially under-invested in a number of different areas, the main reason being we kept trading away our picks. DL was an excellent example of how underinvested we've been in the Wannstedt era. Without a little bit of luck in the form of Adewale Ogunleye, it could have been a lot worse here, a lot sooner.

Caneaddict also makes some good points, though I'm not as much an adherent to the contributor theory of the first round. It's nice when you luck out on someone like Tom Brady in the 6th round (one of the most dramatic cases of luck in NFL history...go ahead check it out there hasn't been a star QB drafted as low as Brady in the modern era of football) but when you don't...you go for the sure fire contributors. But that can give you a bit of a headless look, because those boom/bust positions (franchise QBs, franchise WRs, franchise LTs, franchise CBs) are not generally acquired any other way than the draft or some kind of form of investment (ie. investing in a trade for a guy like Delhomme and turning up lucky). When you've got yourself some leaders and franchise players, thats when you can afford to be less chancy, IMO. Until then I'd be rolling the dice until I found a great QB and LT.

Boik14 said:
The watson pick is interesting but if his combine is umimpressive im pretty sure we can grab him at last 15 picks or so later. Hes a similar talent to Vince Wilfork except he needs a constant kick in the hindparts
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That last bit there makes him even MORE like Vince Wilfork!
 
I'm sure Watson will be an excellent player, and would be a great pick if our secondary wasn't absolutely terrible. I don't think Saban thinks twice about picking Williams over Watson. Our secondary needs help now, our D-line does need to get younger, but give Manny Wright a chance to prove he can be the guy. Jimmy Williams makes too much sense for this draft. I think if we can get Williams or Huff in the first, it would help our team immensely.
 
Here's what I think since everyone seems to want to pick on Gabe Watson over Jimmy Williams.

Until Sam Madison leaves this team, I will continue to operate under the assumption he is still here. We have Travis Daniels and Will Poole, both cornerbacks, both young investment players. We have a veteran Sam Madison. Even if we get rid of Sam, replacing him with a veteran like Ty Law probably becomes a priority. We also have Shirdonya Mitchell, who I would not count on, but could have some upside. At every position you need to strike a balance between veteran presence and young presence. Getting rid of Sam Madison and replacing him with Jimmy Williams overbalances our corners towards the developmental guys. Will Poole and Travis Daniels are both too good to just be cast aside for the present AND future, as well. Since getting rid of Sam means replacing him with a veteran, getting Jimmy Williams moves SOMEONE (Poole, Daniels, Williams, or the veteran) to dime CB status. I don't believe that is something we necessarily want to do.

There IS room on this team for another young corner, but a young high pedigree corner is not as much of a "need" as a YOUNG high pedigree nose tackle. Why? Because a young high pedigree nose tackle simply results in moving Manny Wright back to under tackle which is his more natural position, and the most negative effect of that move is that Kevin Vickerson and Manny Wright battle each other for playing time at one position. But, why is that bad? Vickerson is a 7th round pick (thanks for the correction) that has had a lot of attitude problems in his day, had conditioning problems, and spent all of 2005 injured. Manny Wright is a 5th round pick that has a lot of talent but is generally lazy, does not have proper attitude, and is STILL a work-in-progress as far as getting him in shape enough to take a significant number of snaps.

Is Will Poole more deserving of being marginalized to 4th CB in the present, 3rd CB in the future, or is Kevin Vickerson more deserving of being marginalized to 3rd string under tackle in the present, and shared 2nd string under tackle in the future.

Ask me that question 10 times and I give ya the same answer each time...Vickerson.

But I didn't CHOOSE Watson because of need. I merely demonstrate the need case to show that corner is not such an overwhelming need that even if we feel Watson will be a better pro, we ought to go with Williams.

All things being equal, I flat out feel Watson will be a better pro than Jimmy Williams.
 
CK getting Williams doesnt move anyone anywhere

He can play Safety

OR

Travis Daniels can move over and play safety like a lot of people seem to want

Williams was a guy a lot of people had going top 10 or 12 in the draft, if he is there at 16 I dont think you can pass on him
 
I'd be fine with Watson...I can only imagine a d-line that will have Watson,Roth,Manny,JT,Carter and Holliday plus Vickerson coming back.....will it happen? Only time will tell....I'm still hoping that Greenway will fall tho I doubt it but Watson's a good pick.

Ozzy rules!!
 
Dol-Fan Dupree said:
I have to disagree here. I think a young good DT is a huge need on this team. Especially at the NG position. As CK said there is no one who excell in that position after Traylor.

If you look at the other position of needs there are young bucks who have a chance to excell. Safty has Bell. Corner has Poole and Daniels(or if you believe some people he coudl be safty), Linebacker has Crowder (and surprisingly Pople who looked really good at times last year). NG has Traylor and no one.

One thing to remember. Traylor was asked to come out of retirement.
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i agree but we can address this need via FA and spend that pick on somethigng you dont come across every year ala lawson or the polamalu's. go find one of those 2 in the FA and let me know. You can't. Why do you think he brough in Vets? not to deal with teh "chance to excell players" but so the vets can teach adn show leadership adn STILL perform consistently and win us games. ala BB did in NE as it has been said numurous times. he built that team via FA vets adn are very consistent and saban is doing that until the youngins learn the game in the NFL and adjust.
 
I like the mock on the mock at this point. I see Leinert in NO instead of Cutler though. Cutler to the Jets makes more sense to me if he goes top 5.


All i have to say about Gabe Watson is that Mick Mangold manhandled him in the Senior bowl if I am correct, I would rather solidify my OL with a stud Center rather than another DT that one more year with Traylor would suffice. I have seen Mangold on a mock up around 16 too. His stock rising? could be. But would that piss off every dolfan to draft a center first round? trade down and get him would be instant impact IMO.
 
endorphin said:



…as opposed under-thinking things?

It is a well thought out post, unlike many around here condemning people for their opinions.
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I'm not saying he can't have his opinion, it just seems as though he's trying to be a little too different from conventional wisdom in this case. The simplest answer is usually the right one.
 
6th round prospect Cody Douglas (#70, RG) handled Watson pretty good in solo blocking in the Senior bowl...as did Max Jeane-Gilles. Watson seldom demanded a double team....but, started to play better in the 4th quarter.
I'd be thouroughly surprised if Gabe Watson is a first round draft pick.

As far as applying drafting a DT for the Dolphins, I see us only keeping 4 DT's on the roster. Two young guys (Vickerson & Wright) and two Vets (Holiday & ______________).

Saban has shown a tendency to look for DT's late in the draft. Vickerson & Wright are promising young players that I would not be willing to lose on the practice squad. Take a DT in the 7th to develop on the practice squad.
 
ckparrothead said:
but when you don't...you go for the sure fire contributors. But that can give you a bit of a headless look, because those boom/bust positions (franchise QBs, franchise WRs, franchise LTs, franchise CBs) are not generally acquired any other way than the draft or some kind of form of investment (ie. investing in a trade for a guy like Delhomme and turning up lucky). When you've got yourself some leaders and franchise players, thats when you can afford to be less chancy, IMO. Until then I'd be rolling the dice until I found a great QB and LT.
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Those boom/bust picks should still be taken just not as much in the 1st round. I'm NEVER one to mention Brady because I almost think he has done a disservice to the other teams in that many fans now think Hall of Fame QB's can be had in the later rounds (which I agree with CK just doesn't often happen). However, there are tons of star players at every other position that have been found consistently in later rounds. Your TO, Steve Smith, Chad Johnson, Zach Thomas, JT etc. New England gets solid players every year in the first round and so do the successful teams. It doesn't matter if it's a TE or Guard. Remember when I say a solid player, I'm not talking about a marginal starter, I'm talking about a guy that holds down his spot and plays good enough that NO one considers making a change for a decade.

New England has somewhat of a headless look and that's fine. Give me a DEEP squad with 53 solid dependable elite players (not pro bowl but just below) with 2-3 pro bowlers sprinkled in and you've got yourself a Super Bowl ring.


ckparrothead said:
That last bit there makes him even MORE like Vince Wilfork!
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Exactly, I watched every snap Wilfork took in college and he was VERY inconsistent. I feel right now exactly the same way about Watson as I did about Wilfork then. Wilfork clearly had the skills to dominate in stretches. Watson has the same ability. I LOVE the idea of just building silly depth on our D-Line. I'm a HUGE believer that the game is won in the trenches so you can never have enough good D-Linemen. The trenches thing is why I'm also such a big proponent of Winston Justice too.
 
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