Did the Fins outsmart themselves with draft trades? | Page 10 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Did the Fins outsmart themselves with draft trades?

BlueUndertow said:
Why would I? We're talking a pair of trades the Dolphins made. It's not my responsibility to do a rundown of the entire league.

Here's the trade:

Miami (outgoing):
2021 Round 1 Pick 3 (-2200 pts)
2021 Round 4 Pick 123 (-49 pts)
2022 Round 1 (-400 pts)

Miami (incoming):
2021 Round 1 Pick 6 (from PHI) (+1600 pts)
2021 Round 5 Pick 156 (from PHI) (+27.4 pts)
2022 Round 1 (from SF) (+470 pts)
2022 Round 3 (from SF) (+60 pts)
2023 Round 1 (from SF) (+210 pts)

Approx value (future picks being equivalent to this years but one round lower):
Outgoing 2649 vs Incoming 2367.4

Obviously approx value isn't a be all or end all, but the Dolphins aren't showing a net gain to me and probably a net loss.
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If we traded Tunsil 2 years ago for 2 future first round picks than wasn't our 3rd pick in this draft from Houston only worth around 300 points since we got that pick 2 years ago?
 
I think we can reexamine this after pick 12.

Obviously, Miami would have preferred to originally trade down with Philadelphia or maybe even Carolina. But those teams weren't willing/wanting to trade up.

Grier got there in a roundabout way.

The assumption by most media and fans is Miami wants one of the receivers. I think that is fair to say.

But if one of them makes it to pick #12, giving up an additional 1st round pick looks like a bad trade.
 
Show Me Your TDs said:
I completely understand your logic. I do however teams that are moving up always pay a premium. Your looking at these trades as if we had to have won both of them. Going from 3 to 12 and netting 2 future 1s and a 3 was a huge amount of drafts capital for 9 spots. Go back and look at what was given up for moving up (KC moved up 17 spots and gave up a current 3 and 1 future 1st/Houston gave up one future 1 to move up 13 spots). Granted these were not in the top five however they are noted especially when no team was willing to trade up last year with two elite QB prospects on the board. Again I said this in another thread this was a 3 team trade and we were never going to stay at 12. We paid a premium to move back to OUR spot where they felt comfortable

I realize you have to live up to your Username but calling Grier a loser is silly. Do I wish we got more picks this year? Heck yeah! I believe Chris Grier to be a controlled gambler (which I realize is somewhat of a conundrum). He was willing to pay a premium to guarantee himself one of their top people on their board.
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Please work on your reading comprehension!

I explicitly stated the trade was a LOSER -- which it absolutely was in value terms.

(The FACT Grier did this trade with ZERO net immediate value is a LOSER!)

I did NOT say Chris Grier was a loser.

Those kind of misquotes always reveal an agenda IMO.

And if you have one spell it out. Don't pervert and/or twist what others say to fit your narrative!
 
SF Dolphin Fan said:
I think we can reexamine this after pick 12.

Obviously, Miami would have preferred to originally trade down with Philadelphia or maybe even Carolina. But those teams weren't willing/wanting to trade up.

Grier got there in a roundabout way.

The assumption by most media and fans is Miami wants one of the receivers. I think that is fair to say.

But if one of them makes it to pick #12, giving up an additional 1st round pick looks like a bad trade.
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I can agree with all of this. Part of the GM process is how much are you willing to gamble to get your player. These trades were made with the idea of still being able to get who they covet (and not having the ability at 12). I don't have the same reactions of the trades as many on this board do because I understood these trades were made in unison and Chris Grier wanted to ensure he had the ability to trade out of the #3 position.
 
BigNastyFish said:
The FACT Grier did this trade with ZERO net immediate value is a LOSER!
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Haha! I appreciate the feedback but that is how I read your comment.
BigNastyFish said:
Please work on your reading comprehension!

I explicitly stated the trade was a LOSER -- which it absolutely was in value terms.

I did NOT say Chris Grier was a loser.

Those kind of misquotes always reveal an agenda IMO.

And if you have one spell it out. Don't pervert what others say to fit your narrative!
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No hidden agenda. I clearly stated why I disagreed.
 
If the draft goes as planned Lawrence 1, Wilson 2, M Jones 3, Atlanta is a total? . Ryan is old but still a good qb and I think he would have been traded if they were going to move on. Chase at 4, Bengals Sewell. Does Carolina or anyone else want to get Fields at 6. Who knows what Detriot will do behind us. Campbell is the type of coach that would love Fields. They could always trade Goff , who I never thought was a good fit with Campbell. Goff to New England makes sense to me. If I was Carolina I might give up maybe an extra 2 and 3 to move up on draft day to get Fields. Fields could be the steal of the draft at qb
 
Show Me Your TDs said:
Haha! I appreciate the feedback but that is how I read your comment.

No hidden agenda. I clearly stated why I disagreed.
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you got caught in a lie so admit it!

The only question is if was just dumb/lazy or deliberate.

Excellent contribution to the subject matter BTW!

:rolleyes:
 
BigNastyFish said:
you may not agree with it but that's the REALITY.

Here's a simple one to contemplate.

I'll take your R1 in '21 and give you an R1 in '23!

Great deal, right???

Or... even more... I'll trade you an R1 in '21 for an R1 in '25!

Or... I'll trade you for an R2 in '21 and give you an R2 in '22!

Etc. etc.

TIME VALUE!

It's pretty universal!
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You keep acting like we got nothing back this year..or next. Your rants are comical. But honestly disingenuous.

If you don't like the players we pick, that's one thing. But acting like don't get to pick until 2023 is absurdity, and you know it. You do know it...right?
 
BigNastyFish said:
OK.

Give me $100,000.00 today and I'll give you the same sum back in 2 years.

I just want the $100K for 2 years. NO COST. No additional comp.

No idiot will do that.

Now just consider the fact draft picks are a form of "currency."

Same basic facts apply.

And this is not even remotely theoretical! It's widely accepted as the norm in terms of trade value.

The ONLY thing you negotiate is the "interest."

So what I'm saying is that Grier wrote a total loser contract in terms of "interest" for trading down from 3 to 6.

And it's VERY easy to see and verify.
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🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
 
Feverdream said:
It isn't...

It is one framework for building a model.

There are other considerations other than an arbitrary points chart.

The saving in salary, and moving assets to a year where you want to have them have both been mentioned.
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Great post--seriously. But I suspect you are wasting time with this one.
 
GeauxFins2020 said:
You keep acting like we got nothing back this year..or next. Your rants are comical. But honestly disingenuous.

If you don't like the players we pick, that's one thing. But acting like don't get to pick until 2023 is absurdity, and you know it. You do know it...right?
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Are you daft???????????????

Seriously dude.

That 2023 R1 pick isn't "real" until April 29 2023.

Get lost.
 
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