Did the light go on for Harris last night?

[Jerrysanders]

Kiko and Maxwell have started for a three different teams already so 1/10th of the NFL. Branch, McCain, and Phillips are decent players and nothing more. I haven't overrated anyone but don't underrate players because you don't like the financial part of the Branch or Kiko deals. I didn't say top 10. I said anywhere from 10 to 15. You can say talent. I'll go with scheme. Agree to disagree

So a change in scheme is going to bring a 29 ranked defense to a top 15 defense ? thats just wishfully thinking, if we had a better defensive coordinator we would definitely see improvements but there's no magic scheme thats going to make us top 15 overnight.

 

[Snoop]

So a change in scheme is going to bring a 29 ranked defense to a top 15 defense ? thats just wishfully thinking, if we had a better defensive coordinator we would definitely see improvements but there's no magic scheme thats going to make us top 15 overnight.

Houston went from 29th to 4th in 2011 when they hired Wade Phillips and switched to the 3-4.

That being said I do think people are overstating the level of talent we have on that side of the ball. The only established players we have on defense that are actually good are Wake, Jones, Suh, and Hayes. Maaaybe you can throw TJ McDonald in there but he struggled his first 3 years in STL, then contract year he played well. X Howard gave us 6 games of promising play so we'll see how he performs in year 2... as for the others, Kiko, Maxwell, Branch, Nate Allen, Timmons at this stage in his career, all decent and/or mediocre, which is hilarious given how much money we have tied up in these guys. Phillips pretty much sucks. Mike Hull might start inside, a guy you could argue should be on the practice squad.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

Kiko, Phillips,Branch,Maxwell and Mccain woudn't start for many NFL teams; don't overrate our players because your a dolphin fan. Scheme change or not, the dolphins simply need to acquire more talent on defense. 2016 we ranked 29 in total defense; were not becoming a top 10 defense just by changing the scheme that's just wishful thinking.

I strongly believe we could make a jump to the top half of the league with a respected DC and scheme change. One of the first things I would do is switch to an Under front and mix one and two gap techniques along the DL to mask front 7 gap responsibilities and create a free run defender in the back 7.

Ultimately I'd like to see us in a 4-3 Under with 3-4 personnel. It would force an emphasis on versatile defenders and true athletes at the LB position.

What NE is doing now and started last year in a 3-3 is pretty incredible and awesome to watch, but that's for another thread.

 

[hoops]

The first step on college tape we aren't seeing with consistency in the pros. His one pressure came on the only spin move he showed. I wouldn't say it was the best looking spin out of a wide 9 look.

The staff though really likes him. His run last night tells you he's in the plans but I will say the more I watch the more I think he's best suited for a red shirt.

I just don't think he's showing enough to be the plan a sub rusher every time. They kick him inside in some sub packages etc so we will see come week 1 but right now I'd probably play more William Hayes in the sub.

I'd play him in pure pin ears opportunities though. For that he'd be active but he's no where near ready to play every down.

Charles Harris needs to do more vs 2s. Most these rookies sacks/ splash plays are coming vs 2s so it's not a cut bait thing here. Situational play is gonna influence things.

 

[Jerrysanders]

Houston went from 29th to 4th in 2011 when they hired Wade Phillips and switched to the 3-4.

That being said I do think people are overstating the level of talent we have on that side of the ball. The only established players we have on defense that are actually good are Wake, Jones, Suh, and Hayes. Maaaybe you can throw TJ McDonald in there but he struggled his first 3 years in STL, then contract year he played well. X Howard gave us 6 games of promising play so we'll see how he performs in year 2... as for the others, Kiko, Maxwell, Branch, Nate Allen, Timmons at this stage in his career, all decent and/or mediocre, which is hilarious given how much money we have tied up in these guys. Phillips pretty much sucks. Mike Hull might start inside, a guy you could argue should be on the practice squad.

Houston had many talented players in J.J Watt,Prime Mario Williams, Demeco Ryans, Brian Cushing, Antonio Smith, Jonathan Joseph,Conor Barwin and Glover Quinn; this a horrible example of a team lacking talent and vastly improving because of a change in scheme. I'm glad you noticed were not filled with talent on defense because for some reason many ppl on this board think we are.

 

[Jerrysanders]

I strongly believe we could make a jump to the top half of the league with a respected DC and scheme change. One of the first things I would do is switch to an Under front and mix one and two gap techniques along the DL to mask front 7 gap responsibilities and create a free run defender in the back 7.

Ultimately I'd like to see us in a 4-3 Under with 3-4 personnel. It would force an emphasis on versatile defenders and true athletes at the LB position.

What NE is doing now and started last year in a 3-3 is pretty incredible and awesome to watch, but that's for another thread.

Suh may thrive 1 gapping all the time but that defense is going to force Kiko to be the primary playmaker and he will definitely be exposed, our current MLBs are also lacking the athleticism to be flowing to the play-side. Who would you put at 3tech UT, 1 tech NT and SDE with our current personnel ?

 

[Sons Of Shula]

Suh may thrive 1 gapping all the time but that defense is going to force Kiko to be the primary playmaker and he will definitely be exposed, our current MLBs are also lacking the athleticism to be flowing to the play-side. Who would you put at 3tech UT, 1 tech NT and SDE with our current personnel ?

That's a tough question. Working with our current defensive personnel and our FO's choices of those players is difficult b/c there are so many things I would have done differently in the past couple off seasons/drafts.

I'll attempt to answer and edit this though.

If you were to play Suh in an Under front, much like how Tampa used Warren Sapp, he would be isolated against the weakside guard, and with the DE in the 5 tech next to him you've essentially schemed yourself a 3rd DE in a one gap attack. Sapp was so disruptive in that scheme.

That would be the primary change along with having Wake change side to line up next to him at the weakside 5.

Timmons at Sam and for Alonso I'd line him up in the Everglades . . . er I mean Will. The Under switch would also take pressure of the MLB as the primary playmaker whoever that may be after McMillan's injury is . . . IDK.

. . .

 

[Jerrysanders]

The first step on college tape we aren't seeing with consistency in the pros. His one pressure came on the only spin move he showed. I wouldn't say it was the best looking spin out of a wide 9 look.

The staff though really likes him. His run last night tells you he's in the plans but I will say the more I watch the more I think he's best suited for a red shirt.

I just don't think he's showing enough to be the plan a sub rusher every time. They kick him inside in some sub packages etc so we will see come week 1 but right now I'd probably play more William Hayes in the sub.

I'd play him in pure pin ears opportunities though. For that he'd be active but he's no where near ready to play every down.

Charles Harris needs to do more vs 2s. Most these rookies sacks/ splash plays are coming vs 2s so it's not a cut bait thing here. Situational play is gonna influence things.

I'm glad u finally admit Harris play has been lackluster, I thought Harris could of been that consistent pressure but rarely reach home type of guy do to his supposed 37 inch vert (which magically went from 33 to 37 in a short period of time) but he hasn't consistently shown that kind of explosion.

 

[hoops]

I'm glad u finally admit Harris play has been lackluster, I thought Harris could of been that consistent pressure but rarely reach home type of guy do to his supposed 37 inch vert (which magically went from 33 to 37 in a short period of time) but he hasn't consistently shown that kind of explosion.

I didn't finally admit anything. I'm just not gonna sit here and watch for example Jordan Willis get his ass kicked by Trent Williams and get a pass while Charles Harris who is more raw than Willis gets his ass chewed for getting the angry bear treatment from Jason peters. Willis is sitting behind a 4th rounder right now. I liked the kid and I liked taco more but all these kids are making plays against guys who don't play on Sunday's short of ford who gave Trent Williams all he could handle but who also doesn't project more than situational rusher long term.

Harris though needs to give us more vs 2s I'm not gonna argue that. We haven't seen enough yet. He should be doing more vs that level. He's just also played a ton of reps vs 1s and looked like he's getting an education just like the rest of em when faced with a quality tackle.

The two things that surprise me with Harris though are the first step looks inconsistent sometimes he's later than I expected off the ball like he's thinking and second that I underestimated what 4.8 means in pursuit. I don't know how a guy though can flash that first step vs the sec and it not transfer to the pros. All should keep in mind though that this kids relatively new to the game he's got a lot of learning to do.

But bottom line do I see 8 sacks as a rookie to validate the top 25 pick in 2017 right now? No I dont

 

[Jerrysanders]

That's a tough question. Working with our current defensive personnel and our FO's choices of those players is difficult b/c there are so many things I would have done differently in the past couple off seasons/drafts.

I'll attempt to answer and edit this though.

If you were to play Suh in an Under front, much like how Tampa used Warren Sapp, he would be isolated against the weakside guard, and with the DE in the 5 tech you've essentially schemed yourself a 3rd DE in a one gap attack. Sapp was so disruptive in the scheme.

. . .

Sapp had DT size with DE quickness the same can be said for Suh as well. I rarely say Sapp doubled teamed.

 

[hoops]

I should say I didn't underestimate what 4.8 means in pursuit I know what that means I meant that I expected harris production on the qb to come in a 10 yard box cause I expected his first step to translate so much. He just hasn't won cleanly enough or discarded blocks either. I have no doubts he's thinking he's being chipped for the first time etc but still he has to win. He's here to sack qb not for any other reason. If he doesn't this pick bust top 25.

I'm fully aware of that and while that spin move may be a counter to what the tackle shows post snap he's been very few and far between in its use to date.

As a sub rusher I don't want you to think about a damn thing other than get to the qb. Cause if you don't your stay in Miami will be short Charles. They didn't draft you for any other reason.

 

[Jerrysanders]

I didn't finally admit anything. I'm just not gonna sit here and watch for example Jordan Willis get his *** kicked by Trent Williams and get a pass while Charles Harris who is more raw than Willis gets his *** chewed for getting the angry bear treatment from Jason peters. Willis is sitting behind a 4th rounder right now. I liked the kid and I liked taco more but all these kids are making plays against guys who don't play on Sunday's short of ford who gave Trent Williams all he could handle but who also doesn't project more than situational rusher long term.

Harris though needs to give us more vs 2s I'm not gonna argue that. We haven't seen enough yet. He should be doing more vs that level. He's just also played a ton of reps vs 1s and looked like he's getting an education just like the rest of em when faced with a quality tackle.

The two things that surprise me with Harris though are the first step looks inconsistent sometimes he's later than I expected off the ball like he's thinking and second that I underestimated what 4.8 means in pursuit. I don't know how a guy though can flash that first step vs the sec and it not transfer to the pros. All should keep in mind though that this kids relatively new to the game he's got a lot of learning to do.

But bottom line do I see 8 sacks as a rookie to validate the top 25 pick in 2017 right now? No I dont

That 4 rounder is Carl Lawson who had the most polished pass rushing moves in the draft; another player I've mentioned on this board.Lawson dominated minicamp so its expected he would be ahead of Willis (the more athletic but less technical than lawson) and why are you suprised that the most athletic tackle in football dominated a rookie who's game is dependent on athleticism and has absolutely no counter moves. Nobody asked for 8 sacks but you do have to be productive in your first year if your drafted at number 22.

 

[hoops]

That 4 rounder is Carl Lawson who had the most polished pass rushing moves in the draft; another player I've mentioned on this board.Lawson dominated minicamp so its expected he would be ahead of Willis (the more athletic but less technical than lawson) and why are you suprised that the most athletic tackle in football dominated a rookie who's game is dependent on athleticism and has absolutely no counter moves. Nobody asked for 8 sacks but you do have to be productive in your first year if your drafted at number 22.

Yes I'm aware of who that 4th round pick was and I believe he's playing all 2 point in cinci but I may be wrong. Miamis all 3 and 4 point at de. Teams will run the ball downhill at him til the cows come home if they play him every down in a base 43. As a situational rusher though he looks the part.

I said 8 sacks cause to me if pure situational rusher is your role that's what I expect especially with a top 25 pick.

All these rookie 43 des though are getting massive educations. Probably also a product of a crap tackle class inflating their college numbers

 

[Sons Of Shula]

I'm just not gonna sit here and watch for example Jordan Willis get his *** kicked by Trent Williams

Poor example as Willis didn't see action against Williams.

 

[hoops]

Yes he did. He had one good bull rush vs the starting right tackle and got his ass handed to him by Trent williams.

His production came against the 2 deep right tackle

Trent Williams slapped him in the head a couple times and about knocked him off his feet.