Dion Jordan and offset language

[Wildbill3]

Deny evidence then immediately demand more! All the while demanding i prove something thats impossible. Highly impressed.

Ive proven that players who holdout do not improve their play. And in fact, it can hurt their seasons, even if they play games(which was your original standard).

Im still waiting to learn how holding out improves ones play. I didnt see that in your long sentence about specifically chosen statics concerning our young quarterback. Did like the "it hardly seemed to affect him" part. Lemme guess, if i stated "it seemed to affect him greatly", youd object?

falloff and injuries are part of football, and you can't throw a few random cases out there as proof.

 

[fishfanmiami]

Brian Hartline skipped all of training camp plus the exhibition games and had his best season ever.
Depends on the athlete.I would guess a rookie needed as much practice as possible where as a vet could miss lots of time with no apparent drop in performance.
Sometimes it matters. Sometimes it doesn't.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

What am I missing here? In the extremely unlikely chance we have to utilize this there is a good chance it'll help our rivals much more than it helps us. If you calculate the long term expected value of this offset language, with everything considered its probably worth no more than $50 or $100 per player. Is it worth having Jordan stressing and missing practice time over a measly $50 of value?

Are there any recent examples of this type of language helping a team immensely?

How did you arrive at that figure? Not questioning or bashing, just curious to see how you arrived there.

 

[flynryan15]

Under the old CBA when with a top ten pick especially a qb you were on the hook for way more money I could see having the language but now not so much. Lets face it if we are in a position to use Tannehill or Jordan's offset language then we have way bigger issues then the cap space we save!

 

[BlueFin]

Under the old CBA when with a top ten pick especially a qb you were on the hook for way more money I could see having the language but now not so much. Lets face it if we are in a position to use Tannehill or Jordan's offset language then we have way bigger issues then the cap space we save!

Not arguing your first point at all, but lets face it...in this extremely competitive salary capped NFL...every half million you can use potentially down the road could help, no matter trivial it might seem to some.

Every one is sharpening their pencils and trying to operate as efficiently as possible...it only makes sense to me as a businessman.

It only furthers the argument that no one is saying the "Bust" draft pick won't receive his full guaranteed salary...only that should someone else decide to give him a shot the original team would be off the hook for the portion the new team pays him.

From my perspective the fans are the asking the wrong question, they should be asking why a bust player feels he has the entitlement to double dip by demanding it in his original contract negotiation and holding out and hurting his team in the process?

I believe this procedure will become standard in the future.

 

[flynryan15]

Not arguing your first point at all, but lets face it...in this extremely competitive salary capped NFL...every half million you can use potentially down the road could help, no matter trivial it might seem to some.

Every one is sharpening their pencils and trying to operate as efficiently as possible...it only makes sense to me as a businessman.

It only furthers the argument that no one is saying the "Bust" draft pick won't receive his full guaranteed salary...only that should someone else decide to give him a shot the original team would be off the hook for the portion the new team pays him.

From my perspective the fans are the asking the wrong question, they should be asking why a bust player feels he has the entitlement to double dip by demanding it in his original contract negotiation and holding out and hurting his team in the process?

I believe this procedure will become standard in the future.

Because the CBA the owners signed says the contract is guaranteed. It is that simple the owners wanted a rookie wage scale in te new CBA they had to offer something to get it.

 

[flynryan15]

I don't see it becoming standard practice league wide we used it last year and other teams didn't. We are using it this year and so far other teams haven't gone hey look at what Miami did with Tannehill we named that language in our rookie contracts.

 

[BlueFin]

I don't see it becoming standard practice league wide we used it last year and other teams didn't. We are using it this year and so far other teams haven't gone hey look at what Miami did with Tannehill we named that language in our rookie contracts.

again Ryan, its not about the guarantee...its about the double dipping of busts.

 

[roy_miami]

Not arguing your first point at all, but lets face it...in this extremely competitive salary capped NFL...every half million you can use potentially down the road could help, no matter trivial it might seem to some.

Every one is sharpening their pencils and trying to operate as efficiently as possible...it only makes sense to me as a businessman.

It only furthers the argument that no one is saying the "Bust" draft pick won't receive his full guaranteed salary...only that should someone else decide to give him a shot the original team would be off the hook for the portion the new team pays him.

From my perspective the fans are the asking the wrong question, they should be asking why a bust player feels he has the entitlement to double dip by demanding it in his original contract negotiation and holding out and hurting his team in the process?

I believe this procedure will become standard in the future.

The Dolphins want to aleviate some risk, but what are the odds they ever cut a drafted player we still owe guaranteed money to? Maybe 1 in 50? On top of that what are the odds they cut a player they owe guaranteed money to AND is good enough to sign right away with another team, its probably more like 1 in 100.

On the other side of the coin there are risks too, how often will a player miss practice time? What are the odds the player could hold out for games or even the entire season? What kind of damage is being done to the players psyche and the mood of the locker room?

 

[dlockz]

The Dolphins want to aleviate some risk, but what are the odds they ever cut a drafted player we still owe guaranteed money to? Maybe 1 in 50? On top of that what are the odds they cut a player they owe guaranteed money to AND is good enough to sign right away with another team, its probably more like 1 in 100.

On the other side of the coin there are risks too, how often will a player miss practice time? What are the odds the player could hold out for games or even the entire season? What kind of damage is being done to the players psyche and the mood of the locker room?

I think your odds are kind of off. amost any player taken this high would be signed just as a team kicking the tires, hell even Lawrence Phillips got resigned by other teams. The first part is even more off because we have drafted a few guys that have got cut with guaraneed money on books. Nobody this high although we dont draft this high often. Any time you cut a draft pick early that was an early round pick they had guaranteed money leftover.

 

[roy_miami]

I think your odds are kind of off. amost any player taken this high would be signed just as a team kicking the tires, hell even Lawrence Phillips got resigned by other teams. The first part is even more off because we have drafted a few guys that have got cut with guaraneed money on books. Nobody this high although we dont draft this high often. Any time you cut a draft pick early that was an early round pick they had guaranteed money leftover.

You might be right but I can't think of any, and its even less likely to happen under Ireland imo. The odds of it happening go up significantly if there is a regime change but that doesn't really help Ireland. Is it just first round picks that get guaranteed money, would we still owe Egnew guaranteed money if we cut him after the season?

 

[dlockz]

You might be right but I can't think of any, and its even less likely to happen under Ireland imo. The odds of it happening go up significantly if there is a regime change but that doesn't really help Ireland. Is it just first round picks that get guaranteed money, would we still owe Egnew guaranteed money if we cut him after the season?

other guys outside of first rounders get guaranteed money just not as much. Misi got guarnteed money, so did Pat White.

 

[roy_miami]

How many first round picks have been cut before their rookie contract expires over the past 5 years? The only 2 I can think of were both Raiders, Jamarcus Russell and Rolando McLean. Russell didn't sign with anybody else and I'm not sure if McLean is still guaranteed owed money or if the Ravens are even gonna keep him. Thats 1 higher profile guy out of 150 players, I'm sure there were a few others but again regime changes increase the odds a lot (both Russell and McLean were cut after regime changes) and Ireland is much less likely to cut busts than other GMs imo, mostly because he tends to make safer picks that fill needs (and we have a lot of needs).

On the other side of the coin first round draft pick Micheal Crabtree held out and missed 4 or 5 games of his rookie season, which again is 1 player out of 150.

The sample size is small but its far from getting a freeroll for $500k for The Dolphins.

I think the 1 in 100 chance for Ireland to take advantage of the offset language for a first round pick is accurate. The question is how often will a player hold out significant time and lose part of the season, maybe 1 in 300? 1 in 500?

 

[dlockz]

How many first round picks have been cut before their rookie contract expires over the past 5 years? The only 2 I can think of were both Raiders, Jamarcus Russell and Rolando McLean. Russell didn't sign with anybody else and I'm not sure if McLean is still guaranteed owed money or if the Ravens are even gonna keep him. Thats 1 higher profile guy out of 150 players, I'm sure there were a few others but again regime changes increase the odds a lot (both Russell and McLean were cut after regime changes) and Ireland is much less likely to cut busts than other GMs imo, mostly because he tends to make safer picks that fill needs (and we have a lot of needs).

On the other side of the coin first round draft pick Micheal Crabtree held out and missed 4 or 5 games of his rookie season, which again is 1 player out of 150.

The sample size is small but its far from getting a freeroll for $500k for The Dolphins.

I think the 1 in 100 chance for Ireland to take advantage of the offset language for a first round pick is accurate. The question is how often will a player hold out significant time and lose part of the season, maybe 1 in 300? 1 in 500?

Aaron MAybin, Vernon Ghoulston,Derrick Harvey, Chris williams,j Jason Smith, Aaron Curry,

Not as uncommon as u would think

 

[roy_miami]

Aaron MAybin, Vernon Ghoulston,Derrick Harvey, Chris williams,j Jason Smith, Aaron Curry,

Not as uncommon as u would think

2 of those were trades, Gholston didn't play for anybody after he was cut, at least 1 was after a regime change.

And remember we're talking about Ireland here, if you think I'm way off on saying he takes advantage of offset language for his first round picks at about 1 in 100, what do you think the odds are?