Dolphins have 'expectation of mastery' for quarterback Tua Tagovailoa

[danmarino7051]

I think Tua is intelligent qb but his play on field is limiteds. He can't do what Lamar,mahomes or Allen can do. He should be able to call play by now. He has been in this offensive almost 4 yr.

And those three can’t do some of the things Tua does.

And Tua audibles.

 

[danmarino7051]

Wow... lmao

The next insightful post you make will be your first.

 

[39wildman]

And those three can’t do some of the things Tua does.

And Tua audibles.

These are teams. We are chase in afc.. All 3 off them are better than Tua. This where dolphins and Tua need step there game up.

 

[danmarino7051]

These are teams. We are chase in afc.. All 3 off them are better than Tua.

All 3 are better at running. Only Mahomes is the better passer.

 

[Long suffering fan]

So we start off talking about Tua and his ability to run this offence even better.
Now it's descended into questions about his intelligence.
So sad its went this low.
McDaniel supposedly is a very intelligent man yet still can't get plays in time to look over the defence.
If Tua plays smart and protects himself then we will be competitive.
This is more on McDaniel as he can really take this offence to another level

 

[Beach Bum]

I think Tua is intelligent qb but his play on field is limiteds. He can't do what Lamar,mahomes or Allen can do. He should be able to call play by now. He has been in this offensive almost 4 yr. I think McDaniel just want call plays.

I don't know if Tua is up to the task or not, but he did have a huge play for us one time, that I think went for a TD, when he misheard the play call sent in from McDaniel, LOL! Personally, I would like to see it because I think it gives the QB and offense an edge, but as you said, I am not sure McDaniel can relinquish control. I say what the hell. Let's go for broke this season! What could happen? The Dolphins not making the playoffs?

 

[39wildman]

I don't know if Tua is up to the task or not, but he did have a huge play for us one time, that I think went for a TD, when he misheard the play call sent in from McDaniel, LOL! Personally, I would like to see it because I think it gives the QB and offense an edge, but as you said, I am not sure McDaniel can relinquish control. I say what the hell. Let's go for broke this season! What could happen? The Dolphins not making the playoffs?

Yes I like ur takes. I think McDaniel is in love w call plays. He don't want Tua change call.

 

[39wildman]

All 3 are better at running. Only Mahomes is the better passer.

Idk if Tua is better passer. He released ball quicker to wr or throw to spot. Tua is a great college qb. He may never win playoff game in Miami.

 

[GRYPHONK]

In the context of overcoming an average intellect, I think Dan Marino had plenty of on-field talent to convince people to follow his lead.

You can tell me if what you've seen is enough to say the same about Tua. If he's not got the personality or the intellectual mastery of the game to do it, his authority has to come through performance...

...has he been dominant to that degree? Are we comparing Tua's on-field performance to that of Marino and saying Tua dominates to a similar degree? Is he that inspiring?

IDK...you tell me?

See, you can't do that though.

It's simple. If Wonderlic is used to imply Tua is stupid or dumb, you don't get to now move the goal posts and add additional talking points.

I understand you did not mention the wonderlic, so this is not directed straight at you

Again, if someone says Tuas wonderlic score shows he isn't capable enough to audible. That's a specific statement or opinion. So when Hall of Fame QBS are used to compare with similar scores, that's where the comparison ends. It's not saying he's as good, better or comparing to that QB overall. It's quite simple

As far as leadership, I'll take the words of every player who's played with, currently playing with or who's gone on record about his leadership over any poster on Finheaven or Brian Flores.

Bluntly. Yes, absolutely he has shown it on the field. Injury concerns don't change whether someone's a leader or not for me

 

[Mello Yello]

This is a good point and I wonder… is there any QB specifically who “clicked” after like year 3-4-5? Josh Allen got better everywhere, but he still sucked his first two years…. What about guys like Kurt Warner or I dunno who else? Is there any precedent for Tua to take a big step up?

I think the best thing for him is he has seen success… it’s not some horrible reclamation project but yeah… do we see guys at his caliber take another step up in year 5-6-7?

Well, the obvious answers are the 2 guys everyone compared Tagovailoa to when he came out...

Steve Young spent the '85 and '86 seasons wallowing in Tampa where his numbers were awful before heading to SF where he was a backup for 4 years. While his ratings as a back-up were strong and indicated very clearly the potential, you could argue he didn't "hit" until he became a starter for SF in his 7th season....but ignoring the talent visible in years 3-6 is kind of misleading.

Drew Brees is the other example. After sitting on the bench as a rookie in SD, Brees didn't make noise until his 4th season when his rating elevated him to #3 in the NFL. Still, he plummeted the next year and was traded.

Brees really didn't solidify his greatness until transitioning to New Orleans in year 6 and even then his first 3 years weren't elite. Brees' story is weird because the HOF QB we remember and talk about Brees being is really someone who existed from seasons 9 thru 20.

All of Brees' greatness is in the back-half of his career after he won the Super Bowl and started piling up monster stats stacking elite passing season one upon another. Before that he was a mix, bouncing back and forth between good and mediocre.

 

[Atila]

Well, the obvious answers are the 2 guys everyone compared Tagovailoa to when he came out...

Steve Young spent the '85 and '86 seasons wallowing in Tampa where his numbers were awful before heading to SF where he was a backup for 4 years. While his ratings as a back-up were strong and indicated very clearly the potential, you could argue he didn't "hit" until he became a starter for SF in his 7th season....but ignoring the talent visible in years 3-6 is kind of misleading.

Drew Brees is the other example. After sitting on the bench as a rookie in SD, Brees didn't make noise until his 4th season when his rating elevated him to #3 in the NFL. Still, he plummeted the next year and was traded.

Brees really didn't solidify his greatness until transitioning to New Orleans in year 6 and even then his first 3 years weren't elite. Brees' story is weird because the HOF QB we remember and talk about Brees being is really someone who existed from seasons 9 thru 20.

All of Brees' greatness is in the back-half of his career after he won the Super Bowl and started piling up monster stats stacking elite passing season one upon another. Before that he was a mix, bouncing back and forth between good and mediocre.

Brees is actually a great example. He’s someone who sucked, did OK, then throttled up into greatness.

So you’re saying there’s a chance!!!

 

[Mello Yello]

See, you can't do that though.

It's simple. If Wonderlic is used to imply Tua is stupid or dumb, you don't get to now move the goal posts and add additional talking points.

I understand you did not mention the wonderlic, so this is not directed straight at you

Again, if someone says Tuas wonderlic score shows he isn't capable enough to audible. That's a specific statement or opinion. So when Hall of Fame QBS are used to compare with similar scores, that's where the comparison ends. It's not saying he's as good, better or comparing to that QB overall. It's quite simple

As far as leadership, I'll take the words of every player who's played with, currently playing with or who's gone on record about his leadership over any poster on Finheaven or Brian Flores.

Bluntly. Yes, absolutely he has shown it on the field. Injury concerns don't change whether someone's a leader or not for me

It's not even about the apparent exceptions. It's about whether there's a correlation between the Wonderlic and some meaningful quality required to do the job well...which there certainly may be, IDK.

I'm not in position to tell you whether Wonderlic scores correlate strongly to any particular area of the NFL passing game...but I could easily imagine that they might. It might have to do with how well you can handle the playbook or recall details about formations or how well you can work in meetings with your coaches.

I don't know but I'm not going to assume that a low score on an intelligence test is necessarily something we can just overlook. An example here or there doesn't convince me at all. Dan Marino had things about his game that Tua doesn't. That's not a convincing counter-example because the two QBs are wildly different physical specimens.

To the point though, nobody here can say with good evidence what Wonderlic scores correlate with. That's what I'd want to know. In most things though, intelligence is beneficial. Does Wonderlic capture intelligence? IDK...probably some element of it. Is that element important to NFL QB'ing? I'd have to guess the NFL cares for some reason.

 

[GRYPHONK]

I don't know if Tua is up to the task or not, but he did have a huge play for us one time, that I think went for a TD, when he misheard the play call sent in from McDaniel, LOL! Personally, I would like to see it because I think it gives the QB and offense an edge, but as you said, I am not sure McDaniel can relinquish control. I say what the hell. Let's go for broke this season! What could happen? The Dolphins not making the playoffs?

Yes, that I believe was the deep sideline throw to Hill.

Tua, in 2023, would actually change out of a play or audible more then some realize. He had a few plays he loved and normally was very successful when changing to those plays.

But, this was in 2023, first half of the season when Miami had an O line.

It's difficult to do anything worthy when you consistently break the huddle with under 10 seconds, almost every play requires pre snap motion and the O line can only block for 2.1 seconds.

When he had an O line, it was awesome. Hopefully Daniels and Jonah bring that back

 

[djphinfan]

Its no different than height/weight metrics, hand size metrics, speed metrics, injury ratio metrics and win ratio metrics. Its a metric out there for evaluation, is does however show a lack of intellect and problem solving ability.

So if you have a QB that is on the left side of bell curve on nearly every metric data point what could one reasonably assume the results would be? In Tua's defense he is a functional QB in a tailor made offense when under optimal conditions. However as the metrics and performance on the field have shown when he that is not the case his performance degrades substantially to the point of being non viable. Probably a good reason why he isn't allowed to audible often, he needs a script. Does he read a defense well?, its still debated even on this forum and certainly within the media.

I know some of you want to point out other exceptional QB's with bad scores. However each QB on your lists have other attributes that well exceed the acceptable metric points. Example Dan Marino, every other metric was exceptional, Jim Kelly the same, Lamar Jackson the same, however even he up until the last couple of seasons was more a RB/QB than a QB. Jalen Hurts similar to Jackson.

Your average engineer can make a brick fly like an airplane, however does it make it a good airplane?

Tua is a practical learner that was obvious very early

He must see it to learn, classroom is no Beuno

Remember his rookie year he said he wasn’t mentally ready from a playbook perspective

 

[GRYPHONK]

It's not even about the apparent exceptions. It's about whether there's a correlation between the Wonderlic and some meaningful quality required to do the job well...which there certainly may be, IDK.

I'm not in position to tell you whether Wonderlic scores correlate strongly to any particular area of the NFL passing game...but I could easily imagine that they might. It might have to do with how well you can handle the playbook or recall details about formations or how well you can work in meetings with your coaches.

I don't know but I'm not going to assume that a low score on an intelligence test is necessarily something we can just overlook. An example here or there doesn't convince me at all. Dan Marino had things about his game that Tua doesn't. That's not a convincing narrative.

To the point though, nobody here can say with good evidence what Wonderlic scores correlate with. That's what I'd want to know. In most things though, intelligence is beneficial. Does Wonderlic capture that? IDK...probably some element of it.

Correct. No one actually knows what the Wonderlic scores correlate with. So it's silly when posters use it to try to imply a player ( Tua in this case) is stupid or not able to audible.

Also. When you have a QB like Tua, with his anticipation, accuracy, timing. Along with his completion % and rating. I'm pretty confident his ability to read a playbook or understand formations is top notch