Don't be Surprised . . . | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Don't be Surprised . . .

hoops said:
Ideally you get both. Assignment sound and elite talent.

Especially when you are picking at the top of the draft. You got to hit and hit big
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That's where player eval is huge. Many of us question whether Grier is up to the task, but I have high hopes that Reggie McKenzie, and Marvin Allen can make up for any of his perceived shortcomings.
 
ATL_PHIN_FAN said:
Yeah, but if Grier always chooses based on talent first and foremost, doesn't he risk another Minkah Fitzpatrick situation? As long as Flo is HC, anyway?
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There has to be a balance. You want high character of course but you need the talent too. One doesn't have to come without the other.
 
illscriptures said:
He must have not drafted Michael Deiter and the slew of great rookies making an impact on this team this year.

Even our first round pick has not made a noticeable impact on the field the way you would like your best pick to.

Grier's best picks this year came after the draft in Preston Williams... which was all luck because he had a bad rep pre-draft.
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The bolded part is literally the bias some people have towards Grier all in one message.

Dogging him because our space-eater first round DT isn't flashy enough and then saying him hitting on Preston was pure luck. It's not like they spun a wheel with each team's name on it and Williams suddenly landed in MIA. We scouted him, liked what we saw and offered him a contract.
 
A lot of coaches SAY that they have a 'philosophy' about players and teams,

Coach Flores really means it.

Greir has openly talked about how he works with his coaches and previous GMs.

He is very much a team player, his decisions certainly appear to confirm that kind of collaborative approach.

I agree with your points, but at the same time that doesn't mean that those things are mutually exclusive.

There could very well by a player on the board that fills all the boxes for Flores & has that special sauce that excites the media. ;)
 
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I think you are highlighting a very good point here OP. I'm going to show my Florida bias here. But a player like Johnathan Greenard may be valued way higher for the fins than most will have him. They are going to look for those players that can stay disciplined, have good engines are versatile and can take instruction. The Pats though also mixed these kinds of players in with a few outrageously talented individuals, with questionable character issues they took a chance on like Albert Haynesworth, Aqib Talib, Legerret Blount, Josh Gordon and most recently Antonio Brown. Wonder if we'll do the same ?
 
Geordie said:
I think you are highlighting a very good point here OP. I'm going to show my Florida bias here. But a player like Johnathan Greenard may be valued way higher for the fins than most will have him. They are going to look for those players that can stay disciplined, have good engines are versatile and can take instruction. The Pats though also mixed these kinds of players in with a few outrageously talented individuals, with questionable character issues they took a chance on like Albert Haynesworth, Aqib Talib, Legerret Blount, Josh Gordon and most recently Antonio Brown. Wonder if we'll do the same ?
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Yes, they do take on a very talented "problem child" now and then. What they don't do is give them long term, gauranteed contracts. They make it so if things don't work out, or the player screws up, they just quickly cut him, and move on without any lasting damage or repercussions.
 
Geordie said:
I think you are highlighting a very good point here OP. I'm going to show my Florida bias here. But a player like Johnathan Greenard may be valued way higher for the fins than most will have him. They are going to look for those players that can stay disciplined, have good engines are versatile and can take instruction. The Pats though also mixed these kinds of players in with a few outrageously talented individuals, with questionable character issues they took a chance on like Albert Haynesworth, Aqib Talib, Legerret Blount, Josh Gordon and most recently Antonio Brown. Wonder if we'll do the same ?
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I think we will, when we can afford to. The question is, will that be this year? Flo does have a 5 year contract and supposedly a pass for judgement by management in 2019. So, from Flo's perspective, maybe he'll feel he can afford to be patient sorting through the chaff? Will Grier feel the same way? No clue. I think we won't get many indicators of how they'll roll before FA. However, it is fun to think over the possibilities.
 
Fintastic17 said:
The bolded part is literally the bias some people have towards Grier all in one message.

Dogging him because our space-eater first round DT isn't flashy enough and then saying him hitting on Preston was pure luck. It's not like they spun a wheel with each team's name on it and Williams suddenly landed in MIA. We scouted him, liked what we saw and offered him a contract.
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Same thing with Deiter and the rest of the draft. He hit on one UDFA and now he deserves what? To be considered as a good GM? Why did he not have the wherewithal to radically attempt to improve this oline as horrible as it is?

Why did he extend Jesse Davis? And most egregiously why did he throw a tantrum against picking Lamar Jackson!? Know why? Cause he sucks as a GM.

You must think Charles Harris is really good but just isnt flashy either. What about trading up for Leonte Carroo? What a baller... CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

Chris Grier is as a good a GM, as you are at at recognizing a good GM when you see one or their track record. GTFOHWTBS .

Finheaven: Where the GM of the worst team in the league is a good GM.
 
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illscriptures said:
Same thing with Deiter and the rest of the draft. He hit on one UDFA and now he deserves what? To be considered as a good GM? Why did he not have the wherewithal to radically attempt to improve this oline as horrible as it is?

Why did he extend Jesse Davis? And most egregiously why did he throw a tantrum against picking Lamar Jackson!? Know why? Cause he sucks as a GM.
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Hyperbole much?

And what would he have to do to make you think he's a good GM because I feel like the answer is "nothing".

Tunsil, Howard, Drake, Grant, McMillan, Godchaux, Fitz, Gesicki, Baker, Sanders were all contributors on our team. That's not even taking into account the fact that he absolutely loaded us up with picks and money this offseason.

2020 excuse, I can see it now: "Well he had a TON of picks and money, anyone could've gotten it right with that many resources"
 
Fintastic17 said:
Hyperbole much?

And what would he have to do to make you think he's a good GM because I feel like the answer is "nothing".

Tunsil, Howard, Drake, Grant, McMillan, Godchaux, Fitz, Gesicki, Baker, Sanders were all contributors on our team. That's not even taking into account the fact that he absolutely loaded us up with picks and money this offseason.

2020 excuse, I can see it now: "Well he had a TON of picks and money, anyone could've gotten it right with that many resources"
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I can only wish. I would eat that crow with some hot sauce. I can see your 2020 excuse too..."well the draft is a crapshoot and you can only expect to get 1 or 2 starters out of the bunch... maybe... if that at all."

All the guys you mentioned him drafting have gotten us to this point where we are considered one of the worst teams in the league. You are proving my point for me... Unless you think the people you just mentioned (Tunsil, Howard, Drake, Grant, McMillan, Godchaux, Fitz, Gesicki, Baker, Sanders) were the best players that could have been had at their positions.

Tunsil is his best pick... And guess what... It was all luck because of the gas mask issue.

Howard is the only good pick he has ever made that wasn't luck.
 
EasyRider said:
They will draft hybrid players who can play their system and play multiple positions.
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That's true of some positions. Others, not so important.

You don't draft a center, or nose because of flexibility at all. Pass rusher/edge setter, maybe a bit more flex required. RB, DB ideally very flexible.
 
Many times players are described as a 'tweener' (A.J. Duhe was described like this previous to his drafting).

Sometimes this can be a bad thing (cant play either position well), but for the better player, it can mean that he plays BOTH positions well.

These are the guys you want.
 
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