Eli just got cheaper, and it's a risk to stay put | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Eli just got cheaper, and it's a risk to stay put

Originally posted by NavyFishFan


OK...I'm learning on the fly here....never been too knowledgeable on doing trades and such....but I think I'm with it so far in this thread.

Suppose we DO do this trade you're talking about with Arizona, this would give us the #3 overall pick. Now...would it, in this situation, if the goal is Rivers, be better to trade down a few times and garner some 2nd/3rd round picks? Or do you go ahead and take the overall talent at #3?
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See, in this instance, we just traded up for Rivers (or eli if we want him. but I don't know if he's worth paying Madison for).

i don't want to trade up for rivers, though I think someone could screw us if we sit at 20. If we wnted to be darin, we could wait and see who take O-gun, and hope it's a higher pick, that way we could use that one on Rivers, or depending on how high it is, we could try to push for Rivers. Though if we have a VERY high first rounder, I'm all for trading our low, and high for a couple middle first rounders to snag a Rivers and an OL or WR there (most likely WR).

That, and I don't see Arizona going for a trade, they need the QB.
 
K I'm with it.

Now as far as I understand regarding Restricted Free Agents (RFAs) they are players with 3 yrs NFL experience that are allowed to shop around the league for offers, but their current team has a right to match the offer within 7 days and the player will have to stay put. I know its unrelated to the thread pretty much, but I have a question regarding this.

If an RFA takes an offer from a team (Travis Minor for instance), and Miami matches that offer...can another team then make an offer or is it now a dead issue?
 
Originally posted by Graythreat


Do you honestly think that's a bad deal? Do you have any idea how the draft works? Look up the draft value chart, we would be luck if we could get that deal. That would be an AWESOME deal.

Late first rounder, a guy that's leaving ANYWAY, and a DB on the downward slope of his career and would be cut if he didnt' restructure. news flash, cuttin him would do the same thing as trading him. Though he said he's d restructure.

If we had this deal we'd be fools to pass it up. This is a VERY talented draft.
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let me get this right...

Miami gives
20th pick
Madison (which will still cost miami some money in DW)
Ogun rights

Miami gets
1st pick in the draft

wow... that is such a stupid trade. i can't even believe it was brought up.

have you watched a game this season? miami needs picks... a QB is the last of the 3 major priorities.
 
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Originally posted by NavyFishFan
K I'm with it.

Now as far as I understand regarding Restricted Free Agents (RFAs) they are players with 3 yrs NFL experience that are allowed to shop around the league for offers, but their current team has a right to match the offer within 7 days and the player will have to stay put. I know its unrelated to the thread pretty much, but I have a question regarding this.

If an RFA takes an offer from a team (Travis Minor for instance), and Miami matches that offer...can another team then make an offer or is it now a dead issue?
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I believe we have to match any offer they make, though don't take my word for it. But the amount we're willing to match dictates what we get as compensation for them, i THINK.

like, somewhere around 1.8 mil is this year ball park is what it would take to get us a first and a third. If miami doesn't want to match it, then he's gone to them for that much (if he wants to sign wtih them) and we get a first and a third.

I'm new to this too, and that's the gist I get from it. So if we slap him with a 1.8 million dollar offer, and they offer O-gun 4 mil, i THINK we still have a chance to match it, though we never would.
 
Originally posted by Fisticuff


let me get this right...

Miami gives
20th pick
Madison (which will still cost miami some money in DW)
Ogun rights

Miami gets
1st pick in the draft

wow... that is such a stupid trade. i can't even believe it was brought up.
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how do you consider that a bad trade? Look at the trade value chart buddy.

We're giving up a pick with 850 for a pick worth 3000. In the process we're losing a guy that will be gone anyway, and a DB that's on a downward slope that we were going to cut and take the cap hit if he didn't agree to restructure anyway.

I ONLY reason I think they would agree to this trade is that they can snag another commpetittive QB, along wtih the defensive players they need so badly.

It's a lopsided trade in OUR favor any way you look at it.Do a little reasearch and see how much it takes to trade up to the top pick from the 20th pick. Then if you have an ounce of testicular fortitude, you'll come back here and tell everyone you were flat out wrong. THis is a VERY talented draft, wtih some high prospects. That owuld be a great trade in ANOY other trade, much less one with the brother of a FHOF QB that's better than HE was at that point in his career, and awesome WR's.
 
Originally posted by Fisticuff


let me get this right...

Miami gives
20th pick
Madison (which will still cost miami some money in DW)
Ogun rights

Miami gets
1st pick in the draft

wow... that is such a stupid trade. i can't even believe it was brought up.

have you watched a game this season? miami needs picks... a QB is the last of the 3 major priorities.
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are you really niave enough to say that QB is the last of our priorities?

Your trying to ice skate up hill. Wee NEED the QB, we're on a time table. In 2 years this defense will be on the way downhill, and we'll need to rely on our offense. AN OFFENSE THAT CURRENTLY HAS NO QB PROSPECTS FOR THIS YEAR, MUCH LESS 2 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD!

What do you propose we do? Pick OL or WR high, and take a QB next year, when we're not in the postition to take the top QB prospect in the draft, and expect him to be ready to go the next season? get real buddy.
 
Originally posted by Graythreat


how do you consider that a bad trade? Look at the trade value chart buddy.

We're giving up a pick with 850 for a pick worth 3000. In the process we're losing a guy that will be gone anyway, and a DB that's on a downward slope that we were going to cut and take the cap hit if he didn't agree to restructure anyway.

I ONLY reason I think they would agree to this trade is that they can snag another commpetittive QB, along wtih the defensive players they need so badly.

It's a lopsided trade in OUR favor any way you look at it.Do a little reasearch and see how much it takes to trade up to the top pick from the 20th pick. Then if you have an ounce of testicular fortitude, you'll come back here and tell everyone you were flat out wrong. THis is a VERY talented draft, wtih some high prospects. That owuld be a great trade in ANOY other trade, much less one with the brother of a FHOF QB that's better than HE was at that point in his career, and awesome WR's.
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NO it's plain STUPID.

i don't give a crap if the value board says that our pick is worth 1 and SD is worth 1,000,000.

Ogun gets miami 1 1st, and a potential 3rd.

Miami's #1 need is not QB.

besides, you haven't EVEN SEEN HIM PLAY IN A PRO STYLE OFFENSE! you're giving up the works, for an unsure prospect.


A). Madison is still a great corner. it's not his fault Marion can't cover deep. He played shutdown almost ALL season long. and if he could catch, he would have atleast 6 INT.

B). Tendering Ogun gets miami more in the long run.

C). that 20th pick will be good enough for Rivers or Losman, and Oguns will be good enough for a Jenkins, and a lineman in the 3rd.


let me see... 4 picks in day one, or 2 picks in day one, and miami no longer has a RCB, and all the bagage.

your trade sucks... sorry, but it's GARBAGE.
 
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I think the QB alternatives to Rivers will be Losman or Henson.

Arizona has more confidence in McCown than SD has in Brees.

Once a team matches an offer for a RFA, the player is no longer a FA. i think that was your ?.
 
Originally posted by rafael
I think the QB alternatives to Rivers will be Losman or Henson.

Arizona has more confidence in McCown than SD has in Brees.

Once a team matches an offer for a RFA, the player is no longer a FA. i think that was your ?.
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Thanks Rafael....that's what I was asking :D.
 
Originally posted by Fisticuff



NO it's plain STUPID.

i don't give a crap if the value board says that our pick is worth 1 and SD is worth 1,000,000.

Ogun gets miami 1 1st, and a potential 3rd.

Miami's #1 need is not QB.

besides, you haven't EVEN SEEN HIM PLAY IN A PRO STYLE OFFENSE! you're giving up the works, for an unsure prospect.


A). Madison is still a great corner. it's not his fault Marion can't cover deep. He played shutdown almost ALL season long. and if he could catch, he would have atleast 6 INT.

B). Tendering Ogun gets miami more in the long run.

C). that 20th pick will be good enough for Rivers or Losman, and Oguns will be good enough for a Jenkins, and a lineman in the 3rd.


let me see... 4 picks in day one, or 2 picks in day one, and miami no longer has a RCB.

your trade sucks... sorry, but it's GARBAGE.
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A week ago, this idea for a trade was considered to be rediculous.

Because San Deigo would never go for it.

Call it pure garbage if you want. Your the one that thinks your smarter than the Pro's. The value chart is there for a reason, and teams stick to it. If YOU think it's garbage, have fun living in your niave little world. Perhaps we could trade our all late rounders for the #1 pick? I mean, shoot since the value chart doesn't matter and all right?

Fact: Teams stick to the value chart unless there is a reason not to. Giving them their defensiveplayers, and a QB to compete with breese, is more than enough reason to jump at a trade like this. Don't like the trade? Call it unrealistic that SD won't take it.

Your just making yourself look uneducated when your saying we'd be the ones getting ripped off on the deal.
 
Originally posted by Graythreat


A week ago, this idea for a trade was considered to be rediculous.

Because San Deigo would never go for it.

Call it pure garbage if you want. Your the one that thinks your smarter than the Pro's. The value chart is there for a reason, and teams stick to it. If YOU think it's garbage, have fun living in your niave little world. Perhaps we could trade our all late rounders for the #1 pick? I mean, shoot since the value chart doesn't matter and all right?

Fact: Teams stick to the value chart unless there is a reason not to. Giving them their defensiveplayers, and a QB to compete with breese, is more than enough reason to jump at a trade like this. Don't like the trade? Call it unrealistic that SD won't take it.

Your just making yourself look uneducated when your saying we'd be the ones getting ripped off on the deal.
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yeah ok ;)

if you're saying Ogun, and our #1 for the 1st pick, i don't think thats dumb (depending on what pick miami gets for Ogun). but you're saying that, and adding Sam Madison to the deal, in which miami has no starting CB, and all his bagage.

Eli is not worth everything you're gonna give up, and with Rivers and Losman being there at 20, it's dumb.
 
Just so I can understand the particulars in this supposed trade...what would we have to cover of Madison's contract in future years? How much? And would it count against each successive year's cap for that amount?
 
Originally posted by Fisticuff
adding Sam Madison to the deal, in which miami has no starting CB, and all his bagage.
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and yet you still refuse to accept that fact that that VERY thing would have happened anyway, and we would have had nothing in return.

Madison just announced that he is willing to restructure, prior to that we would have cut him, taken the hit, and been short a CB and got nothing in return.

The only thing that has changed, is he's willing to restructure and save us money. That's the only difference here, and not one big enough to warrant passing up on a #1 pick.
 
Originally posted by NavyFishFan
Just so I can understand the particulars in this supposed trade...what would we have to cover of Madison's contract in future years? How much? And would it count against each successive year's cap for that amount?
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We'd take a one time cap hit of 8 million for this year. But remeber that would have happened anyway had he decided he wouldn't take a pay cut.

It's basically doing what we planned to do, only getting the #1 pick out of the deal. Yeah, that's a big hit, but we were supposedly prepared to take it anyway.

Now, he announced he will restructure, but that leaves us with

1. Will he really restructure

2. Will he restructure enough to warrant passing an oppertunity like this up should it arise?
 
Originally posted by Graythreat


They also need a QB. SD is on the fence with Breese, They used a #1 on Leaf, and took Breese high last year as well. He has yet to prove hes a total bust.

Arizona has a young offense with huge potential, they need the QB and won't trade down, SD however, might be gunshy from Breese, they need a lot more than JUST a QB, which is all they'll get taking Manning high. But getting the defensive players might make them brave enough to take QB low (rivers).
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Does Arizona need to spend a first round pick on a QB?? I think not. Josh McCown, a 3rd Round draft pick in 2002 could be a decent option at QB. He did make a decent impression the last play of the season for them. Someone had to get that ball in the endzone for the win. Arizona needs defense more than anything, and also a consistent RB. Dennis Green is known for making things work, no matter who is at QB. Hell, you may even see Jay Fiedler in a Cardinals Uniform.
 
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