Ginn Trade: Addition by Subtraction at KR

[Tunaphish429]

Dude.. Comeon on.. Being (not even a Finfan but) a football fan, you cannot believe that. All i t takes is 1 yard. Ask the 1999 Titans. One yard makes all the difference in the world and 2.5 ypr is a HUGE difference. Would you rather start at the 20, or the 17.5 yard line? Would you rather have 4th and goal from the 1, or 4th and goal from the 3.5 yard line? What if you have 3rd and 2.5 and only get 2... See the point.

Havent you ever heard the term, "football is a game of inches"? Well, they werent lying, it is.
---------- Post added at 04:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:02 PM ----------



I dont understand the post

Of course you would rather start at the 20 rather than 17.5 yardline..but is it a big difference as far as starting point?

No its not..

4th and goal from the 1 vs 4th and goal form the 3.5 is a whole diffent animal..its due or die..you win and lose games on that..

You dont win or lose games from having 2.5 yrds less on KR..

Negetive KR can kill you...

These are Ted Ginn's long KR vs Cribbs..

51, 48, 37, 34, 32 ,29..Those are his top 6 without the Jets game that almost everyone is discounting for what reason..I dont know..( 2 Best KR)

Cribbs High returns are

58, 42, 41, 37, 33, 32...

I think ppl think that Cribbs is so much better beacause he is on sportscenter and such...

Cribbs has been better over the past 3 years..Again on paper they are very similar for 2009

I know Ted is a poon...I am just saying we lost a pretty good kick ret.. and hope we can replace him

 

[Tunaphish429]

Because Cribbs CONSISTENTLY had great returns. He wasn't good one game and awful every single other game like Ted Ginn. And like I said earlier, that 2.6 yards is a big difference. Are you going to tell me that Brandon Marshall's 5.2 YAC average last year wasn't much better than Camarillo's 2.4 YAC average? After all, it was only 2.8 yards difference... We can debate this every which way, but it call comes back to Ginn being an awful KR. Count the Jets game, Ginn was still middle of the pack. Don't count it, Ginn was one of the worst KR in the league. Neither really matter, because stats are stats. For anyone who watched Dolphins games last year, they can tell you Ginn was an awful KR. He rarely made it past the 25, and consistently had awful returns. He won the Jets game on his own, great for him. But that was one game, an aberration.

Ted Ginn had 6 games where he had an average under 21 yrds..

Cribbs had 4 games where he avg. under 21 ...When was Ginn awful in 2009?


Ted had 6 games where he averaged 7 games with 20 yrds or more per average..

his top 2 games..were yes the Jets game.. 49.8

and Carolina 42.5 where he actually had 2 returns that game for 85 yrds...
1 for 48 and the other for 37 respectively..

 

[Butterfrog 2.0]

Prove it. Until somebody proves to me that our blocking was downright pathetic, it's just yet another excuse for Ted Ginn, which is the norm amongst Ginn apologists.

I don't have to prove anything, but if you actually watched all of the games you wouldn't have seen many creases for a KR to run through and you would have seen a lot of guys in the KR's face before he reached the 20 a good amount of times. Look, I don't care about Ginn now... the guy isn't a member of the Dolphins anymore and it's not like he was a Zach Thomas or Dan Marino who will always be a dolphin to me. My point was leaning more towards the fact that our ST's blocking sucked and needs to be fixed this year for whoever our KR is going to be.

 

[dolpns13]

Of course you would rather start at the 20 rather than 17.5 yardline..but is it a big difference as far as starting point?

No its not..

4th and goal from the 1 vs 4th and goal form the 3.5 is a whole diffent animal..its due or die..you win and lose games on that..

You dont win or lose games from having 2.5 yrds less on KR..

Negetive KR can kill you...

These are Ted Ginn's long KR vs Cribbs..

51, 48, 37, 34, 32 ,29..Those are his top 6 without the Jets game that almost everyone is discounting for what reason..I dont know..( 2 Best KR)

Cribbs High returns are

58, 42, 41, 37, 33, 32...

I think ppl think that Cribbs is so much better beacause he is on sportscenter and such...

Cribbs has been better over the past 3 years..Again on paper they are very similar for 2009

I know Ted is a poon...I am just saying we lost a pretty good kick ret.. and hope we can replace him

Sorry bro, but your wrong.. on most points in this post. People like cribbs becuase he is a great KR, and he is on sportcenter because he IS a great KR, not becuase we like him... Unfortunately, you simply do..not..get..it..

And yes, there is a HUGE difference between starting at the 17.5 and starting at the 20. Why do you think coaches teach players to fight for EVERY YARD... because they dont care about two and a half yards?..

Anyone could step in and produce like Ginn did..

Actually, since your so hells bent on this 2.5 difference being meaningless, humor me. Cobbs averaged 22.6 yards per KR last year, thats even less than the 2.5 difference from Ginn, that being said, you are agreeing that since Cobbs is only 2.3 YPR less than Ginn, he would be a viable and even a good replacement.

 

[dlockz]

Ted Ginn was ok on returns and Cobbs was definately no better. We need to upgrade both our kickoff and punt return this year. Mullen was brought in here to attempt to do that, I dont see him as an upgrade over Ginn but he is cheap and would basically only be a return man so maybe it will work out better. He knows his only chance to make the team is if he shows he can do that job

 

[Tunaphish429]

Sorry bro, but your wrong.. on most points in this post. People like cribbs becuase he is a great KR, and he is on sportcenter because he IS a great KR, not becuase we like him... Unfortunately, you simply do..not..get..it..

And yes, there is a HUGE difference between starting at the 17.5 and starting at the 20. Why do you think coaches teach players to fight for EVERY YARD... because they dont care about two and a half yards?..

Anyone could step in and produce like Ginn did..

Actually, since your so hells bent on this 2.5 difference being meaningless, humor me. Cobbs averaged 22.6 yards per KR last year, thats even less than the 2.5 difference from Ginn, that being said, you are agreeing that since Cobbs is only 2.3 YPR less than Ginn, he would be a viable and even a good replacement.

Ahh but there is a big difference between Cobbs and Cribbs....5 yrd diffence...

Cobbs 2 longest were 39 yrds 25 plus no TD's big difference there....

His next longest were 23,23 and 21...

What would you rather have? Ginn or Cobbs..

I would say Ginn...

Who would you rather have Cribs or Ginn...Cribs no doubt..

I think we also expected Ted Ginn to be much better since he was a 1st round pick...


Ask Leodis Mckelvin what happens when you fight for every yard on KR's

I understand if you think I am wrong...Its your opinion..

Its been fun yapping back and fourth with ya

 

[AdamD13]

Again, people are just absolutely ignoring the fact that our ST's blocking was down right pathetic. Ginn or whoever else tried KR's was staringat multiple defenders in the face before they reached the 15 yard line a lot of times. I really don't care who you put back there they wouldn't have lit it up on returns.

Not saying that Miami was the best ST blocking in the NFL, but they are not as bad as you make them out to be.

Here are Ginn's two TD's against NY broken down...

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films...-Anatomy-Ginn-s-Back-to-Back-100-yard-Returns

EXCELLENT blocking by the ST. Maintaining their blocks is what allowed Ginn to score on the 1st return. On the second return it is pointed out that it is Ginn that doesn't wait for his blocks. He outruns them which ends up making the blocking look bad.

 

[gota]

Am I the only one that remembers the numerous Ginn kick returns for touchdowns that got called back?? If he's so bad where do all our other kick returners in past years rank?? I don't recall ANYONE in the 20+ years I've been a fan having so many big returns. (regardless of whether they counted or not) Unfortunately it's all or nothing with this guy. He either has a great return or a terrible return. There were both good and bad things about Ginn. Terrible wide receiver. Game-breaking kick return speed. Many bad returns and many good returns. Some of you choose to only remember the poor ones for some reason. Some guys just can't win. So many negative people on here. It's amazing you can make it through a day without shooting yourselves.

Anyway the guy is gone so move the hell on already.

 

[unclemonty]

OMG children we are all Dolphins fans here (well most of us anyhow).
Can't we all just get along? lol
This thread gave me a serious headache!!

Couple last points about Ginn. (Yes I wanted him to succeed here being an acquaintance and Buckeye).
His 2 TD returns against the Jets broke an NFL record. These were not a fluke, they were great returns.
I believe he also was the only player to torch Revis for a TD bomb last season.
He did have some good moments here (as well as some very bad).
Fact is, he was a HUGE part of our 2 Jets victories, which should count for something.
Sweeping the jets was our BIG moment of last season and he played a very key role in both victories.
That has to count for something as the Jets are now our most bitter rival.
I don't understand the constant negativity towards Ted Ginn especially since he is gone.
We have made FAR WORSE 1st round draft choices.
Our drafting in general has been horrendous until the trifecta took over.
Why does nobody hate and constantly bash Jason Allen?
He was a 1st round bust and all he can do is play special teams.
The list of our 1st pick turds could go on and on...
2007-Ted Ginn (it could have been worse, Brady Quinn was our projected pick)
2006-Jason Allen
2003-(2nd round)-Eddie Moore
2002-(3rd Round)-Seth McKinney
2001-Jamar Fletcher
1999-(2nd round)-JJ Johnson
1998-John Avery
1997-Yatil Green

 

[GroundZero]

All the Ginn bashing is crazy. We got way more out of him then we ever would have out of Brady Quinn. I was glad at the time and still am we didn't take that stiff

 

[GroundZero]

OMG children we are all Dolphins fans here (well most of us anyhow).

Why does nobody hate and constantly bash Jason Allen?
He was a 1st round bust and all he can do is play special teams.
The list of our 1st pick turds could go on and on...

I think most of us are trying to pretend that Jason Allen doesn't really exist and we didn't pick that year

 

[CO-Gator]

Ginn sucks.

 

[Statler Waldorf]

Why would we do that? All these other KR's consistently have great KR's. Ted Ginn has one lucky game, and was completely awful the rest of the season. Give me someone with 0 TD's who at least takes it past the 25 consistently. Unlike Ted Ginn who rarely did so, and outside of the Jets game, which was an aberration, had an awful 21.9 KR average.

Hahahaha, we'd do that only if we cared about fair statistical analysis, but apparently that doesn't matter around here. When we compare B. Marshal to other receivers I say we throw out his 21 reception game too but not any of the other receiver's best games. Yeah that sounds fair!! What a joke.

 

[Statler Waldorf]

There were only 7 guys with 50 or more returns...so he still ends up "middle of the pack", even when you try to manipulate the numbers. Good try...but fail!!!

Actually I was not manipulating the numbers at all. I was selecting an N value that favored my viewpoint, just like everyone else on here was. Without setting a minimum value for N, you'd be forced to say that Pierre Thomas for the Saints was the best KR in the league because he had an average of 40 yards per return. Since nobody else on here seems to understand how Statistics work, I played right along with the game and selected 50 for my minimum N value because it best supported my argument. The only thing that distinguished me from everyone else was that I admitted what I was doing when I said I was "Data Mining"- everyone else actually thought they were seriously proving a point haha. For the record, 3rd out of seven is not middle of the pack, 4th out of 7 is haha.

 

[Statler Waldorf]

You're right, you don't start these posts. However, when Ginn's getting "bashed" you always seem to be right there to defend him. Hell, the only time I see you on here is only when the topic relates to Ginn. Now, who's obsessed? Pot, meet Kettle.

Haha, I only stand up for him because I think it is weird to still be talking about him on here. It's even stranger that you go and read 49ers blogs about him and see what he's up to in niners camp haha. I stopped following him once he was on a different team, just like JT, Gerbil Wilson, and Joey Porter. It kind of reminds me of grade school kids, when one has a crush on the other they always insult them, sometimes even by saying "So-and-so sucks" (sounds like someone on here).