Here’s the deal... | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Here’s the deal...

MiaFins31 said:
Let’s start with what we have as far as players with value...

Tua Tagavailoa (Franchise QB or Trade Value)
Myles Gaskins (Starter or Depth)
DeVante Parker (Starter)
Preston Williams (Starter or Depth)
Jaylen Waddle (Starter)
Mike Gesicki (Starter)
Hunter Long (Starter or Depth)
Austin Jackson (Young Depth)
Solomon Kindley (Starter or Depth)
Robert Hunt (Starter)
Liam Eichenberg (Starter)
Christian Wilkins (Starter)
Raekwon Davis (Starter)
Jaelan Phillips (Starter)
Andrew Van Ginkel (Depth and ST)
Jerome Baker (Starter)
Xavier Howard (Starter or Trade Value)
Byron Jones (Starter or Trade Value)
Jevon Holland (Starter)
Jason Sanders (Starter)

The parentheses indicates what they are what they would eventually be or that they bring trade value. Now I’m not saying so and so will be a future superstar or so and so is a bust. I’m simply saying these are the legit NFL players on our roster and they are the most valuable players on our roster. That’s 20/53. That’s less than half of this team that are real NFL caliber guys or have trade value. That’s nowhere near enough for us to compete. Half of those guys (10) are on this list because they’re 1st or 2nd year players so we really don’t know anything yet other than they have the potential which is what gives them value.

Now from what I understand unless we just totally flop and go 1-16/2-15/3-14 Flores almost assuredly will be back. However with any of those records my guys believe Grier would definitely be gone and if we finish with a losing record they still believe Grier would be gone however I want to emphasize that... that is purely speculation and nothing concrete. That’s just what I’ve been told. But Flores has breathing room with Ross bc of the 1st 2 seasons he had. So I’m pretty certain Flores isn’t going anywhere even though I firmly believe he should be gone regardless bc like I said 2 weeks ago he completely lost me going for a tie in OT at LV but that’s for another day.

Grier is on thin ice as we speak. Ross fully expected a playoff team this year and at a minimum we had better been very close. As we all see barring some miracle turnaround that’s not going to be the case. Let’s take a look at the mistakes Grier has made and these are just off the top of my head. Please feel free to add any that I’m missing...

As I’ve stated in other threads we can’t put the Tua selection on him bc as I’ve said that was Ross pulling rank. Other than that....
2020 Draft 3 1st round picks... 1 clear bust in Iggy. It’s teetering on bust for Jackson. All we had to do was move up from 18 to 13 to get Tristan Wirfs who we had rated as the top OL on our draft board but we didn’t want to part with that 3rd rounder that would become Brandon Jones. And Tua we still don’t know 100% for sure even though I’m on the he’s not the guy side of things but nonetheless we don’t know that 100% for sure. When I say we I’m referring to the “football people” in the FO. He will have the rest of this season to show it or not. So if Tua fails that’s 3 complete misses with those 3 1st rounders from 2020. Even though as I said we can’t put Tua on Grier but still it counts somewhat.

The decision in 2019 to send a 2nd and 5th for Josh Rosen. Another complete failure as he lasted 1 year.

Completely ignoring the OL in FA basically the last 2 offseasons as we haven’t signed a guy out of FA that has solidified a starting spot on the OL.

Signing Kyle Van Noy who lasted 1 year. Signing Shaw Lawson who lasted 1 season. I’d say it’s fair to say Byron Jones hasn’t lived up to being worth the highest paid CB in the game bc that’s what they made him at the time and that’s an understatement. Ereck Flowers who lasted 1 year. Ted Karras lasted 1 year. Jordan Howard didn’t even last half a season. All money wasted.

Trading a 4th rounder for Lynn Bowden who’s spending the season on IR and has done nothing. Another deal with no return on investment.

Even though it was a conditional 7th rounder he still made a deal for Isaiah Wilson who didn’t last even a week.

Trading for Bernardrick McKinney who couldn’t even make the final roster cuts.

Outsmarting himself by moving from #3 to #12 and back up to #6 while giving away our own 1st rounder next year to Philly which is looking more likely by the week to be a top 10 pick and maybe even top 5. This is the one that’s just unforgivable to me personally. I knew it was a bad deal when we did it and stated so.

This one goes hand in hand with the paragraph above but trading what’s more than likely going to amount to 2 top 10 picks for a slot WR in Jaylen Waddle is another huge mistake. As JaMarr Chase is showing he was the guy to select at #3. I like Waddle and think he’s going to be very good but he’s getting to where he’s dropping multiple balls every week now. While Chase is putting up 100 yard games with TDs. I wanted Chase and said it over and over here so this isn’t hindsight. We could have stayed at #3 selected Chase and even though we wouldn’t know how to use we would own our 1st rounder for next year which is almost certainly going to be more valuable than SFs 2 #1s combined. We could have even selected Penei Sewell at #3 and I’d still feel a lot better. Some around the league even think that’s what we should have done.

After deciding not to give up a 3rd rounder to move up for Tristan Wirfs in 2020 he decides he won’t let it happen again so he decides to give up a 3rd rounder to move up in the 2nd round for Liam Eichenberg. I like Eichenberg but he’s not Tristan Wirfs. So let’s get this straight. Grier wouldn’t give up a 3rd to move up in the 1st round for the top rated OL on his draft board in Wirfs. But he’s willing to give up a 3rd to move up in the 2nd round for Eichenberg who they like but definitely didn’t have rated as the top OL on the draft board. Another head scratching move.

He’s completely avoided selecting any running back with all these picks the past 2 drafts. Even though Gaskins is starting to really show it now why not select at least 1 tailback in the 1st 3 rounds in the past 2 drafts to compliment him? Another mistake added to the list.

This past year in FA Corey Linsley was willing to visit us and hear an offer. Grier didn’t even pick up the phone and call him. He didn’t even try. So Linsley went to LA to protect Justin Herbert and you see the improvement in LAs OL? Amazing what the best Center in football can do for an OL.

Spent 10 million on Will Fuller who everybody in the league knows is always going to miss games because of injuries. He’s played what 1 game our of the first 5 for us so far? Another terrible decision.

Mike Gesicki is a top 10 TE in football and probably has been our most productive player over the past couple seasons and does he extend him? Nope and probably won’t.

Yet we extend Jakeem Grant who is now traded for a measles 6th rounder. We extend Jerome Baker and even though it’s not a terrible deal money wise for a starting LB Baker is rather average and was about as bad today against TB as I’ve seen him. More head scratching decisions.

All these decisions have been huge mistakes. How can any GM of an NFL franchise survive all these mistakes? I mean everybody is going to make mistakes it happens. But all of these compounded one on top of another? It’s just unbelievable.

I’m on the train of both Grier and Flores along with the entire staff and FO should be gone after this flop of a year and we just start over. The thing is we don’t have to start from scratch like we did when we started this present regime. We have some talent on this team. I fully believe that. We have a very young team but we need a coaching staff that’s going to teach coach and develop these young guys and get them to reach their potentials. A new staff would bring new energy. We need a proven head coach and GM that get hired together as a team and not forced on each other. We need them to have a plan of what we want to be offensively and defensively. We need a staff that’s going to continue to build around the pieces we have now. We still have draft picks coming up and we have money to spend in FA. We need a new staff to bring in some veterans to teach these young guys the NFL way and how to practice how to workout how to treat their bodies nutritionally. We need to do it after this season while we have ammo still in the reserve.
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Great post. And you were kind for not mentioning the 5th round pick we sent for Matt Breida - another bag of **** that lasted 1, terrible season.
 
Can someone please clarify that we traded two first rounders for the waddle pick? Didn't we get SF first as well after the moves we made? Basically we got Waddle and a 1st for our two firsts?
 
Stoobz said:
Stop with the Watson bullshit.
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Dude relax. I was asking a question. Mind your damn business. He has insight and I was curious. I like tua too. But I wanted to know what he was talking about.
 
I’ll just add that Jakeem Grant returned 2 punts today - one for 21 yards and another for 17. He also had a 32 yard KO return. No muffs. 19 yard punt return average is field-flipping and contributed to Chi’s win. Players play better after they leave Miami.

PS - even Charles Harris had a sack for Detroit today. Holy cow insult to injury. I need to buy lottos tonight.
 
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bane said:
Will they give tua the season or move by trade deadline?

Who needs convinced about Watson? Grier needs to see tua or others?
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I can’t say for sure but reading between the lines I’m pretty certain say 85-90% no move of that magnitude will be made before or by the deadline.

Tua will get the rest of the season almost for sure. If Miami makes a move for that QB in Texas it will reek of desperation and we will pay out the as* in capital for it between draft picks/players.

If Flores had more control the deal would have already been made. He’s been against Tua from day 1. Ross loves Tua but he’s finally been coming around on the idea that he’s not the superstar caliber QB he thought he was going to be. Grier is kind of in between but leaning more towards the guy in Texas.

The holdup on that deal is the legal issues and the compensation Houston wants. I’ll be the first to say I want DW4 and yes theys a little bias in that bc I’m a huge Clemson fan and know the guy fairly personally. I’ve always liked the guy as a player and person but the legal issues are what they are at this point and nobody can give any guarantees what his punishment will be. I highly highly highly doubt he’ll have to deal with any real legal trouble. I think he’ll eventually pay out the money and once he starts winning football games again this will all but go away but that’s just my opinion.

As far as who needs convinced I’m not allowed to give out names so I’ll just say some of the “football people” in our FO brass are who needs to know about Tua one way or other. Believe it or not the speculation is that the Miami FO is about like this board in regards to Tua and that’s the fact they’re kind of split down the middle on him. Some want to give him time to develop some have their minds made up that he ain’t the guy and some are kind of in between and unsure.

Basically we don’t have an all in agreement on Tua. And now with the season playing out the way it is people in that brass are starting to feel their seats get warm which can cause desperation type moves. We don’t need to make a desperate move. We need to be smart and do our due diligence.

This is just me and what I think but I think we should just bite the bullet and eat this season. Put Tua in there and live with whatever happens so that we’ll know or at the very least have a very good idea about where he’s at and whether he’s showing any type of star potential. Once we have the final season results we can then make these very difficult decisions that we are facing regarding whether Grier/Flo and company see the door and what new regime to bring in. Once we decide on that then make the decision regarding DW4. He wants to be in Miami I know that 100% fact. Philly had a package they offered to Houston and Houston would have accepted but DW4 told them hell no he wasn’t going to Philly. I’m not saying we’re the only team he’d accept a trade to bc he’s ready to play. I’m just saying we’re by far and away his preferred destination.
 
boho44 said:
Can someone please clarify that we traded two first rounders for the waddle pick? Didn't we get SF first as well after the moves we made? Basically we got Waddle and a 1st for our two firsts?
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Something like that. Even Grier can’t explain it.
 
MiaFins31 said:
Let’s start with what we have as far as players with value...

Tua Tagavailoa (Franchise QB or Trade Value)
Myles Gaskins (Starter or Depth)
DeVante Parker (Starter)
Preston Williams (Starter or Depth)
Jaylen Waddle (Starter)
Mike Gesicki (Starter)
Hunter Long (Starter or Depth)
Austin Jackson (Young Depth)
Solomon Kindley (Starter or Depth)
Robert Hunt (Starter)
Liam Eichenberg (Starter)
Christian Wilkins (Starter)
Raekwon Davis (Starter)
Jaelan Phillips (Starter)
Andrew Van Ginkel (Depth and ST)
Jerome Baker (Starter)
Xavier Howard (Starter or Trade Value)
Byron Jones (Starter or Trade Value)
Jevon Holland (Starter)
Jason Sanders (Starter)

The parentheses indicates what they are what they would eventually be or that they bring trade value. Now I’m not saying so and so will be a future superstar or so and so is a bust. I’m simply saying these are the legit NFL players on our roster and they are the most valuable players on our roster. That’s 20/53. That’s less than half of this team that are real NFL caliber guys or have trade value. That’s nowhere near enough for us to compete. Half of those guys (10) are on this list because they’re 1st or 2nd year players so we really don’t know anything yet other than they have the potential which is what gives them value.

Now from what I understand unless we just totally flop and go 1-16/2-15/3-14 Flores almost assuredly will be back. However with any of those records my guys believe Grier would definitely be gone and if we finish with a losing record they still believe Grier would be gone however I want to emphasize that... that is purely speculation and nothing concrete. That’s just what I’ve been told. But Flores has breathing room with Ross bc of the 1st 2 seasons he had. So I’m pretty certain Flores isn’t going anywhere even though I firmly believe he should be gone regardless bc like I said 2 weeks ago he completely lost me going for a tie in OT at LV but that’s for another day.

Grier is on thin ice as we speak. Ross fully expected a playoff team this year and at a minimum we had better been very close. As we all see barring some miracle turnaround that’s not going to be the case. Let’s take a look at the mistakes Grier has made and these are just off the top of my head. Please feel free to add any that I’m missing...

As I’ve stated in other threads we can’t put the Tua selection on him bc as I’ve said that was Ross pulling rank. Other than that....
2020 Draft 3 1st round picks... 1 clear bust in Iggy. It’s teetering on bust for Jackson. All we had to do was move up from 18 to 13 to get Tristan Wirfs who we had rated as the top OL on our draft board but we didn’t want to part with that 3rd rounder that would become Brandon Jones. And Tua we still don’t know 100% for sure even though I’m on the he’s not the guy side of things but nonetheless we don’t know that 100% for sure. When I say we I’m referring to the “football people” in the FO. He will have the rest of this season to show it or not. So if Tua fails that’s 3 complete misses with those 3 1st rounders from 2020. Even though as I said we can’t put Tua on Grier but still it counts somewhat.

The decision in 2019 to send a 2nd and 5th for Josh Rosen. Another complete failure as he lasted 1 year.

Completely ignoring the OL in FA basically the last 2 offseasons as we haven’t signed a guy out of FA that has solidified a starting spot on the OL.

Signing Kyle Van Noy who lasted 1 year. Signing Shaw Lawson who lasted 1 season. I’d say it’s fair to say Byron Jones hasn’t lived up to being worth the highest paid CB in the game bc that’s what they made him at the time and that’s an understatement. Ereck Flowers who lasted 1 year. Ted Karras lasted 1 year. Jordan Howard didn’t even last half a season. All money wasted.

Trading a 4th rounder for Lynn Bowden who’s spending the season on IR and has done nothing. Another deal with no return on investment.

Even though it was a conditional 7th rounder he still made a deal for Isaiah Wilson who didn’t last even a week.

Trading for Bernardrick McKinney who couldn’t even make the final roster cuts.

Outsmarting himself by moving from #3 to #12 and back up to #6 while giving away our own 1st rounder next year to Philly which is looking more likely by the week to be a top 10 pick and maybe even top 5. This is the one that’s just unforgivable to me personally. I knew it was a bad deal when we did it and stated so.

This one goes hand in hand with the paragraph above but trading what’s more than likely going to amount to 2 top 10 picks for a slot WR in Jaylen Waddle is another huge mistake. As JaMarr Chase is showing he was the guy to select at #3. I like Waddle and think he’s going to be very good but he’s getting to where he’s dropping multiple balls every week now. While Chase is putting up 100 yard games with TDs. I wanted Chase and said it over and over here so this isn’t hindsight. We could have stayed at #3 selected Chase and even though we wouldn’t know how to use we would own our 1st rounder for next year which is almost certainly going to be more valuable than SFs 2 #1s combined. We could have even selected Penei Sewell at #3 and I’d still feel a lot better. Some around the league even think that’s what we should have done.

After deciding not to give up a 3rd rounder to move up for Tristan Wirfs in 2020 he decides he won’t let it happen again so he decides to give up a 3rd rounder to move up in the 2nd round for Liam Eichenberg. I like Eichenberg but he’s not Tristan Wirfs. So let’s get this straight. Grier wouldn’t give up a 3rd to move up in the 1st round for the top rated OL on his draft board in Wirfs. But he’s willing to give up a 3rd to move up in the 2nd round for Eichenberg who they like but definitely didn’t have rated as the top OL on the draft board. Another head scratching move.

He’s completely avoided selecting any running back with all these picks the past 2 drafts. Even though Gaskins is starting to really show it now why not select at least 1 tailback in the 1st 3 rounds in the past 2 drafts to compliment him? Another mistake added to the list.

This past year in FA Corey Linsley was willing to visit us and hear an offer. Grier didn’t even pick up the phone and call him. He didn’t even try. So Linsley went to LA to protect Justin Herbert and you see the improvement in LAs OL? Amazing what the best Center in football can do for an OL.

Spent 10 million on Will Fuller who everybody in the league knows is always going to miss games because of injuries. He’s played what 1 game our of the first 5 for us so far? Another terrible decision.

Mike Gesicki is a top 10 TE in football and probably has been our most productive player over the past couple seasons and does he extend him? Nope and probably won’t.

Yet we extend Jakeem Grant who is now traded for a measles 6th rounder. We extend Jerome Baker and even though it’s not a terrible deal money wise for a starting LB Baker is rather average and was about as bad today against TB as I’ve seen him. More head scratching decisions.

All these decisions have been huge mistakes. How can any GM of an NFL franchise survive all these mistakes? I mean everybody is going to make mistakes it happens. But all of these compounded one on top of another? It’s just unbelievable.

I’m on the train of both Grier and Flores along with the entire staff and FO should be gone after this flop of a year and we just start over. The thing is we don’t have to start from scratch like we did when we started this present regime. We have some talent on this team. I fully believe that. We have a very young team but we need a coaching staff that’s going to teach coach and develop these young guys and get them to reach their potentials. A new staff would bring new energy. We need a proven head coach and GM that get hired together as a team and not forced on each other. We need them to have a plan of what we want to be offensively and defensively. We need a staff that’s going to continue to build around the pieces we have now. We still have draft picks coming up and we have money to spend in FA. We need a new staff to bring in some veterans to teach these young guys the NFL way and how to practice how to workout how to treat their bodies nutritionally. We need to do it after this season while we have ammo still in the reserve.
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I think you should send this to Stephen Ross. This sums up the failures of a guy who definitely is out of his element as a GM. I have been quiet about Grier on here, but I have pretty much compiled the same list of grievances that you did and I can sympathize with you and your frustrations.
The sickening thing about this is that it will be another 3-4 drafts by a competent GM to turn this thing around. I am not sure Ross even is considering replacing Grier either. Can you imagine how much More DAMAGE Grier can do to our franchise with a First, Second, Third, 2 Fourths, 2 Fifths, and 2 sixth-round picks in the 2022 Draft. That thought scares me!
 
royalshank said:
Great post. And you were kind for not mentioning the 5th round pick we sent for Matt Breida - another bag of **** that lasted 1, terrible season.
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Seeing as this offense in three years could never be said to have used their running backs correctly I stand by my assertion that the team didn't use Breida correctly. He averaged more than any other back on the team last year. But in any case it doesn't work in anyone's favor that the team spent a 5th round pick on a guy the coaching staff was going to convince itself not to use.
 
MiaFins31 said:
I can’t say for sure but reading between the lines I’m pretty certain say 85-90% no move of that magnitude will be made before or by the deadline.

Tua will get the rest of the season almost for sure. If Miami makes a move for that QB in Texas it will reek of desperation and we will pay out the as* in capital for it between draft picks/players.

If Flores had more control the deal would have already been made. He’s been against Tua from day 1. Ross loves Tua but he’s finally been coming around on the idea that he’s not the superstar caliber QB he thought he was going to be. Grier is kind of in between but leaning more towards the guy in Texas.

The holdup on that deal is the legal issues and the compensation Houston wants. I’ll be the first to say I want DW4 and yes theys a little bias in that bc I’m a huge Clemson fan and know the guy fairly personally. I’ve always liked the guy as a player and person but the legal issues are what they are at this point and nobody can give any guarantees what his punishment will be. I highly highly highly doubt he’ll have to deal with any real legal trouble. I think he’ll eventually pay out the money and once he starts winning football games again this will all but go away but that’s just my opinion.

As far as who needs convinced I’m not allowed to give out names so I’ll just say some of the “football people” in our FO brass are who needs to know about Tua one way or other. Believe it or not the speculation is that the Miami FO is about like this board in regards to Tua and that’s the fact they’re kind of split down the middle on him. Some want to give him time to develop some have their minds made up that he ain’t the guy and some are kind of in between and unsure.

Basically we don’t have an all in agreement on Tua. And now with the season playing out the way it is people in that brass are starting to feel their seats get warm which can cause desperation type moves. We don’t need to make a desperate move. We need to be smart and do our due diligence.

This is just me and what I think but I think we should just bite the bullet and eat this season. Put Tua in there and live with whatever happens so that we’ll know or at the very least have a very good idea about where he’s at and whether he’s showing any type of star potential. Once we have the final season results we can then make these very difficult decisions that we are facing regarding whether Grier/Flo and company see the door and what new regime to bring in. Once we decide on that then make the decision regarding DW4. He wants to be in Miami I know that 100% fact. Philly had a package they offered to Houston and Houston would have accepted but DW4 told them hell no he wasn’t going to Philly. I’m not saying we’re the only team he’d accept a trade to bc he’s ready to play. I’m just saying we’re by far and away his preferred destination.
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Robert Kraft solicited prostitution and everyone seems to have forgotten what a scumbag he is. Roger Goodell will not punish Watson because he’s a star player and all the commish cares about is revenues. If they trade for Watson it will be from such a desperate position that I don’t see how it could ever pan out. He hasn’t been able to elevate the Texans. How can he elevate this mess? Aaron Rodgers I would get. Watson I don’t.
 
royalshank said:
Great post. And you were kind for not mentioning the 5th round pick we sent for Matt Breida - another bag of **** that lasted 1, terrible season.
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Lol as I said there in the beginning of my OP if anybody could think of any I was leaving out please feel free to add but yes that was one. Thank you
 
Sirspud said:
Seeing as this offense in three years could never be said to have used their running backs correctly I stand by my assertion that the team didn't use Breida correctly. He averaged more than any other back on the team last year. But in any case it doesn't work in anyone's favor that the team spent a 5th round pick on a guy the coaching staff was going to convince itself not to use.
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Yeah whether he’s any good or not is irrelevant. We didn’t even keep him around and we used a pick on him. Shameful.
 
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