How comfortable are you with Grier spearheading the rebuild? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

How comfortable are you with Grier spearheading the rebuild?

The "agenda" is yours my friend and it's obviously radically negative.

It's so easy to just blurt out negativity while completly IGNORING the many and

essential positives already accomplished. Seriously, mental "gymnastics?"

This is simpleton stuff.

my opinion is based on information and results...yours is completely emotion driven...completely......its ok being a superfan and thinking every dolphins move is gold and whoever we have at the present time is great until they are gone.....just be aware others have a clearer view and you being wrong for 20 years is not a very good precedent
 
Choose to open your eyes? He's been here 20 years. What in the world have you been looking at?

Spin it however you want but I deal in reality and results. Neither are pointing the needle in a good direction.

Right. I completely forgot!

Chris Grier has been Director of Football operations with total control for that long!

How silly of me! And this Flores guy has been here for like how long???

You cannot conflate the PAST and the ones in command with this NEW REGIME!

They may fail, but it's NOT the same.

Perhaps and consider -- there are totally NEW possibilities on the horizon.

Could you at least support that as a possibility?
 
My eval so far:
a) consistently excellent value on trades for picks
b) league average returns on 1-2 round draft picks the past 4 years (just because you trade a player doesn't mean he's a bust, you need to look at the value you got back for them)
c) above average returns bottom of the draft / UDFA past 4 years
c) I applaud the boldness in scorching the roster for Tua (as long as they actually pick him), I do believe it was necessary to all but ensure the #1 pick in a 16-game season where variance is high
d) very few GMs have a track record of special talent in picking players. Most fall in the average range, some are horrid. If we agree Grier is in that average range, then it makes total sense to stock up on as much ammo as possible within a short window to 'surge' for a rebuild. Also, if you are average in picking, then making sure you get a franchise QB is the main thing. After that, you have much greater room for error to make 'safe picks'. So I agree that going all out to get the #1 for Tua makes a ton of sense.
e) could've structured the tank to allow for those on the squad to grow. Don't you want a stable offensive line to be able to evaluate skill players? I imagine there are ways of tanking that still allow you to keep continuity so the whole season is not a total waste. In fact I'd rather that they gut one whole side of the ball--say the defense for example---to at least allow the other half to make progress while still keeping the win total super low. Would also be great for team morale / culture buy-in to see at least one unit make obvious progress. Doesn't seem like he thought it through to this level.
f) Coaching staff seems relatively competent but jury still out on some position groups

I think people don't appreciate how much luck is involved with drafting and forget that hindsight is 20/20. I really think that most of the respected members on this forum applauded the minkah pick, and few could've thought he would flame out for the reason he did. Certainly the vast majority seemed to think it was a solid, defensible pick, same as Wilkins. Thus how can you blame Grier for this, especially since he was drafted under a different defensive system entirely?

Therefore, luck also extends to drafts as a whole. Say we end up with 8 1st and 2nd round picks the next 2 years. Statistically that is a very small sample size. Even if you had great decision making, there is a high chance that several of those could flame out. How many people panned Jeff Ireland's and Rick Spielman's drafts while here? But they've drafted quite well since then. Small sample size. Put another way, given the same quality of decision making, those 8 picks could end up being 3 all pros or none, just based on luck, and the difference could sink or swim your franchise.

A huge pet peeve is seeing people judge a decision or small set of decisions simply based on the outcome. You really need to look at the underlying reasons when the sample size is small, and realize sometimes things fail even when you make great decisions. That's what makes getting Tua so critical, because margin for error is so much greater if you have a transcendent talent at QB.

It's like the stock market...if you have a base of money (Tua + good coaching staff), then you can afford to invest in mutual funds (take safe picks) rather than trying to beat the market, and still retire comfortably.

From another direction, if you don't think you can beat the market, the smartest thing to do is ensure a franchise qb any way you can, load up on picks and money, and surround them with good coaches. Then try to be league average on your fa / draft returns.

Bottom line: I like the way overall he has setup the big picture, but don't think he has any special ability to pick'em in the draft. As always, we will need a bit of good luck with our picks -- or at least not bad luck -- to have the tank truly be worth it but the overall strategy makes a lot of sense. Hopefully he realizes he is not a talent evaluation genius and relies on a consensus approach with respected folks like Ozzie Newsom to pick our top picks.

You're right about luck. Grier is an average GM at worst. Yeah, he has misses, but not much worse than average
 
my opinion is based on information and results...yours is completely emotion driven...completely......its ok being a superfan and thinking every dolphins move is gold and whoever we have at the present time is great until they are gone.....just be aware others have a clearer view and you being wrong for 20 years is not a very good precedent

I get it. But I am NOT being emotional at all. Whereas I think you...are... LOL

And stop the broad accusations when you obviously don't know me for 20 years!

Calm down. Have a brownie. Indulge yourself.

Maybe hot coco later as well!
 
I'm chill with the situation. No problems whatsoever. Still enjoying watching the games because I'm a NFL fan. I get that people don't have patience these days and think they could do better. I think Grier will surprise and kill the draft. Dude has a plan and it isn't set in stone. He is adapting and not making himself look stupid while doing it. I'm more than pleased right now.
 
You're right about luck. Grier is an average GM at worst. Yeah, he has misses, but not much worse than average

He's been as good as his resources.

And they're WAY BETTER than in the past.

That's my take.

And his obvious capability in making deals is probably as good as any.

I like it!
 
Right. I completely forgot!

Chris Grier has been Director of Football operations with total control for that long!

How silly of me! And this Flores guy has been here for like how long???

You cannot conflate the PAST and the ones in command with this NEW REGIME!

They may fail, but it's NOT the same.

Perhaps and consider -- there are totally NEW possibilities on the horizon.

Could you at least support that as a possibility?

Again with this old and new regime stuff. Oiy vey. Grier ain't new and I believe the current regime was hired to lose so they can be cast to the wayside after murder season and a new, experienced, capable regime will replace them. Actually, that's what I hope ... it's what a smart team would do.

I'll consider it as a possibility but I'll use the very accessible past to give my opinion on the future. He's been here 20 years and is now GM of what will be the worst team in NFL history. Guess how I think he'll use those picks if given the opportunity ...

Hit on a QB and the rest is so much easier. At least he's got that teed up for him.
 
Again with this old and new regime stuff. Oiy vey. Grier ain't new and I believe the current regime was hired to lose so they can be cast to the wayside after murder season and a new, experienced, capable regime will replace them. Actually, that's what I hope ... it's what a smart team would do.

I'll consider it as a possibility but I'll use the very accessible past to give my opinion on the future. He's been here 20 years and is now GM of what will be the worst team in NFL history. Guess how I think he'll use those picks if given the opportunity ...

Hit on a QB and the rest is so much easier. At least he's got that teed up for him.

I mean you cant absolve grier of any blame when he was director of scouting cause he didnt make the final decision and than laud Allen while he was director of scouting for good picks his team made...i mean you can but its pretty disingenous
 
I mean you cant absolve grier of any blame when he was director of scouting cause he didnt make the final decision and than laud Allen while he was director of scouting for good picks his team made...i mean you can but its pretty disingenous


Par for the course and I get it. I do. I want the fins to be good too ... but I need at least a glimmer of hope before I start giving them the benefit of the doubt. They lost that **** years ago.
 
Again with this old and new regime stuff. Oiy vey. Grier ain't new and I believe the current regime was hired to lose so they can be cast to the wayside after murder season and a new, experienced, capable regime will replace them. Actually, that's what I hope ... it's what a smart team would do.

I'll consider it as a possibility but I'll use the very accessible past to give my opinion on the future. He's been here 20 years and is now GM of what will be the worst team in NFL history. Guess how I think he'll use those picks if given the opportunity ...

Hit on a QB and the rest is so much easier. At least he's got that teed up for him.

Right. Very good point. He's set the table and made the party plans...

I am fully invested with the strategy and sincerely hope we capitalize monumentally

on the draft stash! If we blow it, the entire franchise will have to be nuked.

I just don't see that mushroom cloud on the horizon.

Problem is everyone is beyond frustrated and there's like 0 time on the internal fan clock.

But for now -- all we can do (IMO) is allow the process to play out and make our judgements

down the line. I'm hopeful. And for the first time in a while (under Ross ownership)

I think we may have finally done the right thing...

That's all.
 
>>> Just remind yourself the past is in the past.

This is an entirely (obviously radical) new course for us.

One way or another, I think it's going to be epic!

:lol:
 
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