How many wins would Rosen need to prove he’s elite? | Page 13 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

How many wins would Rosen need to prove he’s elite?

Dolphins81 said:
You don’t know much about Kingsbury’s love of Kyler do you?
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Just because he had him for a little bit in a camp or whatever it was, that doesn't mean that Kyler knows the entire offense. Also, how does that even matter? Kyler's had TWO NFL games and already looks better than Rosen has looked at any point last season. Rosen got WORSE as the season went on.

At some point you have to see SOMETHING from a QB. A game here or there, a few drives in a row where he's just on fire. A good team increases their consistency because it's easier to play well with better players, but if you see NOTHING from a QB in 13 starts and two offseasons, you need to start considering that he maaaaay just be a bust. Too early to be completely definitive, but I'm fairly sure he's going to look awful this year starting which is fine by me. Just means it's easier to get the real QB.
 
Kamelion4291 said:
Throwing for 2 TDs in 2 games and 2 TDs in 4 games is definitely different when you're trying to win games. Also, as volume rises efficiency generally falls so Kyler's passing numbers are more valuable than Rosen's low volume/low efficiency numbers. He's just bad.
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I'm not saying Kyler isn't better. He is. We all know it and it's why he was taken #1 overall. I'm just saying the stats are not as different as people would like to think.

Efficiency does not always fall when volume rises. Not in today's spread offenses.
 
Kamelion4291 said:
Just because he had him for a little bit in a camp or whatever it was, that doesn't mean that Kyler knows the entire offense. Also, how does that even matter? Kyler's had TWO NFL games and already looks better than Rosen has looked at any point last season. Rosen got WORSE as the season went on.

At some point you have to see SOMETHING from a QB. A game here or there, a few drives in a row where he's just on fire. A good team increases their consistency because it's easier to play well with better players, but if you see NOTHING from a QB in 13 starts and two offseasons, you need to start considering that he maaaaay just be a bust. Too early to be completely definitive, but I'm fairly sure he's going to look awful this year starting which is fine by me. Just means it's easier to get the real QB.
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Rosen looked worse through the year because that coaching staff was completely overwhelmed. Hence, you know, their firing at the end of the year. After a single season.

People are way too darn excited about Kyler Murray. The guy hasn't won a game yet and is in a ridiculously QB friendly system that will inflate passing numbers.
 
One more thing to factor in... and so many want to ignore this.

The running QBs always always ALWAYS fare better early in their careers than the pocket guys.

But in the long run, they fade waaaaaay sooner while the pocket guys go on and on and on... winning super bowls and getting savvier as the leg guys slowly fade out by the time they are 30.
 
Feverdream said:
One more thing to factor in... and so many want to ignore this.

The running QBs always always ALWAYS fare better early in their careers than the pocket guys.

But in the long run, they fade waaaaaay sooner while the pocket guys go on and on and on... winning super bowls and getting savvier as the leg guys slowly fade out by the time they are 30.
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I think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves. Based on what Rosen has actually shown so far, I think he's likely to only get two or, at most, three super bowl wins in his career.
 
Sirspud said:
Rosen looked worse through the year because that coaching staff was completely overwhelmed. Hence, you know, their firing at the end of the year. After a single season.

People are way too darn excited about Kyler Murray. The guy hasn't won a game yet and is in a ridiculously QB friendly system that will inflate passing numbers.
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Rosen was bad because of the coaches.

Murray is good because of the coaches... after two games.

That's not biased at all.
 
Kamelion4291 said:
Rosen was bad because of the coaches.

Murray is good because of the coaches... after two games.

That's not biased at all.
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If you don't understand how the air raid system inflates QB numbers, learn football and then come to discuss it on a football forum.
 
Sirspud said:
If you don't understand how the air raid system inflates QB numbers, learn football and then come to discuss it on a football forum.
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Dude, you're talking about a failed college coach who had everybody laughing at the Cardinals for even hiring him in the first place.

Stop acting like Kyler Murray is being coached by Andy Reid.
 
Kamelion4291 said:
Dude, you're talking about a failed college coach who had everybody laughing at the Cardinals for even hiring him in the first place.

Stop acting like Kyler Murray is being coached by Andy Reid.
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He's a failed college coach who is considered an offensive genius. That he got hired in the NFL as a HC after being fired in college is a testament to his reputation, not that it wasn't without question of course. The problem is that being an offensive genius and having a lot of passing numbers is an exciting brand of football that doesn't necessarily correlate to wins and losses. And Murray right now is just a microcosm of that - a lot of yardage but not a ton of scores and no wins.

I haven't said Murray is bad, just that I'm not overly convinced by two high yardage games in an air raid system.

I wouldn't say Murray is coached by Andy Reid. The Kingsbury situation, from a purely offensive revolution standpoint, is pretty similar to what Chad Kelly did when he brought his college offense to the NFL.
 
I don't care what kind of season Rosen has, short of a playoff berth, you absolutely take the top teir QB in this upcoming draft.
 
ZERO!!

Because winning is a TEAM thing, not an individual (see danny marino).
 
Kamelion4291 said:
Kyler Murray against Baltimore: 25/40 62.5% 349yds 0 TD 0 INT 90.5 QB rating.
Josh Rosen against Baltimore: 1/3 33.3% 5yds 0 TD 1 INT 2.8 QB rating.

Murray had 40 throws against Baltimore without throwing a pick and it took Rosen 3, but that's fine, downplay Murray and make more excuses for Rosen. And before you possibly give me a nauseating excuse that the Baltimore defense knew Rosen had to throw, Arizona ran for TWENTY yards that game...

I can't wait until Sunday just to hear what kind of stuff is going to be made up for him after the game for why he was garbage like he's been his whole career.
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That pick was on Grant. The entire team had checked out by the time Rosen came in. You're a genius.
 
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