I like Saban, but...

[biggrouper]

Saban Needs to make excuses... Why? Because he is our head coach and no one but him on the team should be... He has to take he heat... Ever head coach does this...

Having said that He really hasnt made any what he has done is tell us that this years team is far from perfect and is still Identifying problms that need fixing... Also his job!

Give him a break! Half a season does not make a career make...

 

[Superself]

hes absolutely right in what hes saying... if the play works, no one questions it... its easy to second guess something after the fact...

its like in KC with that play to end the game, vermiel goes for it, if he doesn't get it it turns into a horrible call, but since they got that TD its a great call...

No you are wrong. IF it works, no clock gets eaten up and people with football knowledge will wonder why you pass in that situation at all when you need to kill the clock!!

Stupid play overall and there really is no defending it.

I tell you what. Relying on Gus to execute is better than relying on Ricky and Ronnie??? That is ridiculous and you all know it.

 

[kcbrown]

Saban is fine, Linehan needs to adjust to our players, Gus sucks....run the ball down the other teams throat, then play action passes....not a guaranteed way to win but it gives us our best chance to go 8-8 this year

 

[Way_Far_Fan_13]

One problem I see in Saban is he is trying to be nothing like Wanny almost like he is scared to run because he does not want to be like wanny. He should have RUN RUN RUN Sunday

 

[BigDogsHunt]

Saban is fine, Linehan needs to adjust to our players, Gus sucks....run the ball down the other teams throat, then play action passes....not a guaranteed way to win but it gives us our best chance to go 8-8 this year

Outside of the execution, nothing needs to change from a coaching standpoint for this team to continue to improve.

While I was surprised with the play call (mostly the results), and you can second-guess the results, you can claim they were out-thinking themselves, Saban himself said the play goes thru him, he could have changed it if he thought it wasnt the correct play. Only in hindsight did he wish he would have changed it, but thats it....its the execution and not the call. If Linehan calls a run, and a penalty occurs, or a OLine misses a block, or RB fumbles, then you simply scream at that result and second quess it as well.

It comes down to execution. It was a chance to tie the score...it didnt work.

Move on, lick your wounds, learn from it, and suit up, strap em on, and get ready for the next game.

 

[mbmonk]

No you are wrong. IF it works, no clock gets eaten up and people with football knowledge will wonder why you pass in that situation at all when you need to kill the clock!!

It would be hard to kill the clock with 2:41 inside the 6 yard line. I assume the Falcons had all 3 timeouts. So you would have the 2 minute warning and 3 timeouts. So we probably couldnt have ran the clock out regardless.

The OC calls the play the players have to execute. That was a bad decision by Gus.

And don't talk down to people about 'football knowledge' you can make your point w/o insulting peoples intellegence.

 

[flintsilver7]

You people are developing a new cult which I'll go ahead and call "Sabanism." It involves several things, the least of which is a complete devotion to the deity Saban, who is infallible and can do no wrong. This is why Sabanites continue to make excuses for the deity Saban and all his decisions. What, Saban works in mysterious ways?

Look, it was a bad play call. Our strength is running. Atlanta is 28th in the league in rushing YPC against. Miami is 5th in the league in rushing YPC. Miami is 27th in passing YPA; Atlanta is 24th in passing YPA allowed. Where is the mismatch? Clearly, in the running game. Sure, if the play worked, it's a great call. Nobody questions it. Legions of Sabanites bow at the altar and drink the Fool-Aid. But what's the probability that the play works?

Let's play math games. Ricky and Ronnie carried the ball 22 times for 119 yards. Ronnie had two bad carries - one for no gain and one for -4 yards. Ricky had one bad carry for -1 yard. Assuming we had two downs to gain two yards, then there is approximately a 2.3% probability of two straight carries not gaining two yards. The probability that the first carry is bad is 3/22, and 4/23 for the second (which assumes the first was bad). In other words, there was a 97.7% chance that rushing the ball twice would gain two yards. Adjusting for the yardage of the second might bump that down to 90%. Now, assume all completed Frerotte passes go for two yards or more. Thus, we need only one in two downs to succeed. At that point in the game, there was a (13/21)*(13/22) probability that a passing play would succeed. So, passing two straight downs would give you an expected success rate of 36.58%. Without going into the more complex mathematics of adjusting for the possible negative effects of being hit for a loss on the first rushing attempt, it is safe to say that running the ball twice would bring success at least twice as often as passing the ball.

Of course, the average fan can watch the game and simply know that running the ball is the better option.

 

[fishypete]

Outside of the execution, nothing needs to change from a coaching standpoint for this team to continue to improve.

While I was surprised with the play call (mostly the results), and you can second-guess the results, you can claim they were out-thinking themselves, Saban himself said the play goes thru him, he could have changed it if he thought it wasnt the correct play. Only in hindsight did he wish he would have changed it, but thats it....its the execution and not the call. If Linehan calls a run, and a penalty occurs, or a OLine misses a block, or RB fumbles, then you simply scream at that result and second quess it as well.

It comes down to execution. It was a chance to tie the score...it didnt work.

Move on, lick your wounds, learn from it, and suit up, strap em on, and get ready for the next game.

Your a smart fan....do you really think that Saban would blast Linehan in public? What did you expect Saban to say....I had doubts...we already threw twice....we have two number one drafted running backs...why throw? Your in a tight space...the defenders are covering my players like sweat on a fat broad....Geez....Linehan....why did you call that stupid play? Now...did you really expect that from Saban....or most any other coach? Of course not...but IF we're all thinking it....you can bet Saban is too.

 

[arsenal]

No you are wrong. IF it works, no clock gets eaten up and people with football knowledge will wonder why you pass in that situation at all when you need to kill the clock!!

Stupid play overall and there really is no defending it.

I tell you what. Relying on Gus to execute is better than relying on Ricky and Ronnie??? That is ridiculous and you all know it.

its no gaurantee we're going to score from there, you can run down the clock but its a risk because if we didn't score then there would be no time left... but if we weren't able to get in there was still time and some timeouts to get the ball back... as it was we had a chance to get the ball back with 2 minutes left if not for a first down run the defense allowed...

regardless of that though, if we scored there, there would be no questions... you run down the clock when its tied, not when your losing... only fans think like that, a coach knows its no gaurantee to score and you dont run down the clock unless like your down by 3 and in field goal range or its tied or some ****...

 

[Superself]

It would be hard to kill the clock with 2:41 inside the 6 yard line. I assume the Falcons had all 3 timeouts. So you would have the 2 minute warning and 3 timeouts. So we probably couldnt have ran the clock out regardless.

The OC calls the play the players have to execute. That was a bad decision by Gus.

And don't talk down to people about 'football knowledge' you can make your point w/o insulting peoples intellegence.

What are you talking about?
You can still force them to use timeouts by running the football. Are you inferring that a pass is better than a run when you are trying to kill the clock?

We all know that the OC calls the plays. But does that mean he is suppose to call ANY damn play in the book?? No....this isn't high school and it surely is not his first gig at OC.
He should call the plays which have a high success rate. Expecting Gus to execute in a crucial moment has failed how many times?? So why even think he will all of a sudden change his luck when you need it most? That is irrational thinking IMO. You don't see other teams going away from the run when it works so why should ours?

 

[BigDogsHunt]

You people are developing a new cult which I'll go ahead and call "Sabanism." It involves several things, the least of which is a complete devotion to the deity Saban, who is infallible and can do no wrong. This is why Sabanites continue to make excuses for the deity Saban and all his decisions. What, Saban works in mysterious ways?

Look, it was a bad play call. Our strength is running. Atlanta is 28th in the league in rushing YPC against. Miami is 5th in the league in rushing YPC. Miami is 27th in passing YPA; Atlanta is 24th in passing YPA allowed. Where is the mismatch? Clearly, in the running game. Sure, if the play worked, it's a great call. Nobody questions it. Legions of Sabanites bow at the altar and drink the Fool-Aid. But what's the probability that the play works?

Let's play math games. Ricky and Ronnie carried the ball 22 times for 119 yards. Ronnie had two bad carries - one for no gain and one for -4 yards. Ricky had one bad carry for -1 yard. Assuming we had two downs to gain two yards, then there is approximately a 2.3% probability of two straight carries not gaining two yards. The probability that the first carry is bad is 3/22, and 4/23 for the second (which assumes the first was bad). In other words, there was a 97.7% chance that rushing the ball twice would gain two yards. Adjusting for the yardage of the second might bump that down to 90%. Now, assume all completed Frerotte passes go for two yards or more. Thus, we need only one in two downs to succeed. At that point in the game, there was a (13/21)*(13/22) probability that a passing play would succeed. So, passing two straight downs would give you an expected success rate of 36.58%. Without going into the more complex mathematics of adjusting for the possible negative effects of being hit for a loss on the first rushing attempt, it is safe to say that running the ball twice would bring success at least twice as often as passing the ball.

Of course, the average fan can watch the game and simply know that running the ball is the better option.

Its not SABANISM. Your point about the better option is probably correct but that again is based on the "result" of the play that was called, and your expectation of what you believe would of happened if we called a different play.

Linehan called the play that he thought fit within the context of that drive. Its easy to second guess. And even if 100 out of 100 "experts" say it was a bad call, that only proves that he went against the norm and tried to cross them up. I too didnt like the call based on the results, and if we score a TD or get the first down or if the pass falls incomplete, I probably scratch my head and wonder why call that play to begin with. But its just one single play call in the whole game. McNabb did it as well vs. the Skins. Its one call, its one play.

I dont disagree with the hindsight logic, but its the bashing of the coaching staff and the attitudes of posters that the end results should dominate their view of the this team this year and if its improved and improving for the future.

 

[Superself]

its no gaurantee we're going to score from there, you can run down the clock but its a risk because if we didn't score then there would be no time left... but if we weren't able to get in there was still time and some timeouts to get the ball back... as it was we had a chance to get the ball back with 2 minutes left if not for a first down run the defense allowed...

regardless of that though, if we scored there, there would be no questions... you run down the clock when its tied, not when your losing... only fans think like that, a coach knows its no gaurantee to score and you dont run down the clock unless like your down by 3 and in field goal range or its tied or some ****...

You want to prevent the other team from scoring too...right? So why not eat a little clock or cause them to use 1-2 of their timeouts? Puts the pressure on them. This has been done before when a team is about to tie a game...its not new.
Also, what makes you so sure that we could not run it on 3rd and 2 and not make that first down? Ricky and Ronnie were averaging 5+ per carry. They were reliable. Gus is not. So you go with Gus?
:shakeno:

 

[BigDogsHunt]

Your a smart fan....do you really think that Saban would blast Linehan in public? What did you expect Saban to say....I had doubts...we already threw twice....we have two number one drafted running backs...why throw? Your in a tight space...the defenders are covering my players like sweat on a fat broad....Geez....Linehan....why did you call that stupid play? Now...did you really expect that from Saban....or most any other coach? Of course not...but IF we're all thinking it....you can bet Saban is too.

Fair enough, so what did you expect or want Saban to say?

As you point out, he said what a good head coach says in public? Every press conference he says the right things?

Do you want him drawn-and-quartered because he says the right things? Or drawn-and-quatered because he doesnt say other more inflamatory things?

Saban is damned if he does, or damned if he doesnt with that thinking.

 

[BLITZKRIEG]

From CBS Sportsline
---------------------
You know you can coach when ...

"You watch the Miami Dolphins blow a chance to tie it in the fourth quarter against Atlanta. With a third-and-2 at the Falcons 8 the Dolphins didn't give the ball to Brown or Ricky Williams -- both of whom were in the backfield. Instead, they put their faith in Gus Frerotte -- Gus Frerotte -- and his pass for Chris Chambers was intercepted by Keion Carpenter. Why in the world would you trust a quarterback who has one touchdown pass in his past four games instead of two backs who each averaged more than 5 yards a carry? I'm sorry, but I don't get it."

PHINZ RULE!!!!

 

[fishypete]

Its not SABANISM. Your point about the better option is probably correct but that again is based on the "result" of the play that was called, and your expectation of what you expected to happen if we called a different play.

Linehan called the play that he thought fit within the context of that drive. Its easy to second guess. And even if 100 out of 100 "experts" say it was a bad call, that only proves that he went against the norm and tried to cross them up. I too didnt like the call based on the results, and if we score a TD or get the first down to the pass falls incomplete, I probably scratch my head and wonder why call that pay. But its just one single play call in the whole game. McNabb did it as well vs. the Skins. Its one call, its one play.

I dont disagree with the hindsight logic, but its the bashing of the coaching staff and the attitudes of posters that the end results should dominate their view of the this team this year and if its improved and improving for the future.

You can only cross them up...if they don't know whats coming to begin with...and we already know that the Falcons knew it was going to be a pass play...Whats amazing is...how come a team like the Falcons can see our tendencies....when Ricky and Ronnie are in the same backfield...but our great 22-23 coach's can't see that we are giving up the plays? Whats up with that!