I like Saban, but...

[PerfectFinz72]

Well, to put it plain and simple, short and sweet....I trust Nick and what he's doing.

The coaching staff knows alot more than any of us do as fans, bottomline, like it or not.

 

[Superself]

But all you are doing is saying the same thing over and over and over.. I don't expect positive posts all the time... i dont positive posts all the time. But there are many decent arguments to YOUR points... that you are choosing to ignore.

I have not seen any decent arguments. Also, they are not just MY points...they have been reiterated in the papers and on TV by ex-players who say the same thing.

I didn't just make this up you know.

 

[fishypete]

we could debate the call forever.. And you know that. If it were complete, this wouldn't be an issue.. THIS you know also.
Shoulda coulda woulda... You understand...
So whith that being said I understand that after 2 throws.. it would seem plausable to assume that they were hoping the defense would bite on the run.
Just like you said.. RUN the ball.... Now if you at home can see and say that.. It would make semnse to throw then wouldn't it?
If it works.. its was a good call... but it didn't.. so its a bad call.
We could say that about every call if you want.

Your correct...if Gus threw a better pass....if the defenders didn't already know the play....we wouldn't be talking about it....but reality is...it wasn't a good call...it went against the teams strength...and it failed...and we lost....thats why we are chatting about it....so hopefully 22-23 coach's won't get it wrong again.

 

[flintsilver7]

Hey MR DUUUHHHH!

My point is hindsight is 20/20/
grow up!
And actually read my post

It's not like we were sitting there, doe-eyed, having no idea what the Dolphins were going to and what they should have done. I had a bad feeling they were going to pass, and 99% of the fans would've told you they should've run the ball.

Im such an obviously bad situation - fortunately magnified because it had bad consequences - I expect the coach to blame the offensive coordinator. I expect the fans and the media to hold the coach accountable for signing off on such a play. I expect the quarterback to be held accountable for committing a crucial turnover.

 

[Dolfan4life!]

So in your opinion an offensive coordinator should never lean toward his strength?

I said....(I'm paraphrasing) I stopped trying to conduct a rational discussion on this point wth you YESTERDAY.

 

[mbmonk]

First of all the Falcons having around a 1:40 with 1 time out doesnt exactly seem like we are putting them in a pressure situation. That would be plenty of time to get in field goal position. PLENTY.

If R&R were averaging 5 yards a carry then we could just run them on 1&2 down and get a first down right? So why even face 3rd and 2. We shouldnt have passed the WHOLE game with numbers like that. Why even have a QB on the field we could but in another blocker and just snap it directly to R&R... Come on. We have to pass to get everyone and their cousin from stacking the box. And on the series before we ran on 3&2 and ricky got 1 yard, then the OC ran it again and got the 1st with Ronnie. So he DID call on R&R in a big situation. So he called a pass on 3rd and 2? Big ****ing deal. If Gus doesn't throw a pick and just incompletes it, there wouldn't be all this shouting on the board. It would be 4th and 2 and we have another shot. But since Gus threw the pick its all about the play call.

 

[flintsilver7]

Well, to put it plain and simple, short and sweet....I trust Nick and what he's doing.

The coaching staff knows alot more than any of us do as fans, bottomline, like it or not.

While even I will admit that that is true in general, it certainly did not look true late in the 4th quarter. Nor, for that matter, did it look good on paper.

 

[Superself]

You have your head in the sand.

It WAS a BAD CALL. Everyone knows it, do the research.
What's a bad play call? One that has high statistical chances of failure.
What's a good play call? One that has high statistical chances of success.

EXACTLY man. That is what I'm trying to say. Its not about if it would have worked...it was a high risk play TD or no TD!! Bad play call still.

 

[BigDogsHunt]

The reason it's easy to second guess is for four reasons, all of which are related.

1) Ricky and Ronnie are two very talented running backs.
2) Ricky and Ronnie were both having successful running games and were still fresh.
3) Gus is not a very talented quarterback.
4) Gus was not having a successful game.

We knew this going into that play. The game is basically on the line. Our strength on offense consists of our most talented players. Additionally, they were having success. Our quarterback was playing about where he was expected to play. Passing is not our strength. (It's not like we had Dan Marino, who despite having a bad game was still Dan Marino. It's also not like we had Marcel Shipp back there, who despite having a good game was still Marcel Shipp.)

I am not trying to get off topic of the thread, but its fair to second quess, thats part of being a fan, watching the game, judging the results.

But to go from second quessing, and post a thread that says EXCUSES are being made are two different things.

I posted that Saban if he sticks up for his staff is viewed to be making EXCUSES or simply doing what you expect a head coach to do.

He is damned if he does or doesnt....that has nothing to do with second quessing the play call. Saban himself did second quess it.

 

[fishypete]

Well, to put it plain and simple, short and sweet....I trust Nick and what he's doing.

The coaching staff knows alot more than any of us do as fans, bottomline, like it or not.

Trust..but verify. The NFL has been littered with coach's that knew more than fans....usually it's one item that defeats them in the end....EGO.

 

[flintsilver7]

I am not trying to get off topic of the thread, but its fair to second quess, thats part of being a fan, watching the game, judging the results.

But to go from second quessing, and post a thread that says EXCUSES are being made are two different things.

I posted that Saban if he sticks up for his staff is viewed to be making EXCUSES or simply doing what you expect a head coach to do.

He is damned if he does or doesnt....that has nothing to do with second quessing the play call. Saban himself did second quess it.

Fair enough. But I'm telling you right now if we had run the ball twice and didn't get it I wouldn't be second guessing him.

 

[Canadianfishfan]

I have not seen any decent arguments. Also, they are not just MY points...they have been reiterated in the papers and on TV by ex-players who say the same thing.

I didn't just make this up you know.

Oh really? McMichael said on his radio show that that call was a bread and butter play, that they complete ALL the TIME... IT was ONE OF THEIR MOST SUREST PLAYS... he said it over and over with all the callers that lambasted it.
McMike thought it was a good call... But in "Hindsight".. because "it didn't work".. it was a bad call.
If we ran twice and didnt get it would complain that we should've play action passed?

 

[JTech194]

Hogwash....plain and simple. You should expect Saban to make excuses....or if you like reason's why this play didn't work...etc, but you have to place blame squarely on those that didn't perform their assignments....if the quarterback screw's up....blame the QB....If the O-lineman screws up blame him. The road Saban seems to heading down is just to familiar for us Dolphin fans....we'll get it fixed....we need to execute...I agree we do. If the player isn't or just plain can't perform his job...change the player.
Saban's job is to win....period. He wasn't hired to be liked...he wasn't hired to play favorites....he was hired to win....and if he has to kick tail and take names...so be it.

How do you know he is not placing the blame where it needs to be? Because he is not doing it publicly in the media? Saban is not the type of coach to call players out in public hell if it were up to him there would be not media coverage of the dolphins. When he decided to take this job, he didn't go public with it until he spoke to his LSU team first. Don't expect saban to come out in a press conference and start to rip his players because its not going to happen. He is the type of coach who would rather handle things internally. And as for your comment that if a player is not performing his job then change him is easy to say, but if his backup is worse than him than what exactly have you accomplished?

 

[Superself]

Oh really? McMichael said on his radio show that that call was a bread and butter play, that they complete ALL the TIME... IT was ONE OF THEIR MOST SUREST PLAYS... he said it over and over with all the callers that lambasted it.
McMike thought it was a good call... But in "Hindsight".. because "it didn't work".. it was a bad call.
If we ran twice and didnt get it would complain that we should've play action passed?

Its not bread and butter. Look at the past 3 weeks worth of failed attempts at 3rd downs and I wonder how McMike came to that conclusion.

If we ran it twice and did not get it, I would be happy that we attempted to use our strength and not get cute when it mattered. Using plays that have a high probability of success is what its all about IMO.

 

[phinfreak]

Duhhh

Ok, so your thinking is....

"...they think we're gonna throw so we'll run the ball, but wait, they probably know that we know that they know we're gonna throw the ball, so they think we'll run the ball, but hey, lets confuse them and not run the ball that'll really cross them up..."

Please tell us you're not coaching little leaguers.