this has got to be a jets fan!
It's not all Griese's fault.
- Thread starter Regan21286
- Start date
Re: It's funny how
Well, I can sure see that you have NEVER seen Brian play. For crying out loud. I used to TRY to EXPLAIN a simple concept to Bronco fox. She NEVER got it. Here is hoping you will.
When a QB is attempting a pass downfield, he MUST take a 7 step drop. See, Receivers don't have 'wings' so a 3 step drop by the QB does NOT give those Receivers TIME to get into position to CATCH the ball. Maybe you have a copy of last years Miami-Denver game? His O-Line gave him no time then either, and he still made some pretty good passes downfield. Of course he was much closer to 100% than he is this year.
This argument is getting downright silly. >JF being able to make plays behind a woeful offensive line.< JF cannot run EITHER at this point. Worse, he cannot even play. Go read his own statements in the Herald. Wouldn't be so bad to read this sorry refrain over and over if it hadn't been made MORE than clear all along that JF is INCAPABLE of playing at present. :yell: :yell: :yell:
Well, I can sure see that you have NEVER seen Brian play. For crying out loud. I used to TRY to EXPLAIN a simple concept to Bronco fox. She NEVER got it. Here is hoping you will.
When a QB is attempting a pass downfield, he MUST take a 7 step drop. See, Receivers don't have 'wings' so a 3 step drop by the QB does NOT give those Receivers TIME to get into position to CATCH the ball. Maybe you have a copy of last years Miami-Denver game? His O-Line gave him no time then either, and he still made some pretty good passes downfield. Of course he was much closer to 100% than he is this year.
This argument is getting downright silly. >JF being able to make plays behind a woeful offensive line.< JF cannot run EITHER at this point. Worse, he cannot even play. Go read his own statements in the Herald. Wouldn't be so bad to read this sorry refrain over and over if it hadn't been made MORE than clear all along that JF is INCAPABLE of playing at present. :yell: :yell: :yell:
The lady is right on....
she sounds like she knows what she is talking about. I think most of the fault with this team lies with the O-Line....if we had more time to throw...we wouldn't be talking about fubles and interceptions....I wasn't thrilled with Brians play yest....but it seems no matter who we put back there right now...we will have trouble...Becky...you keep on making your points!::D
she sounds like she knows what she is talking about. I think most of the fault with this team lies with the O-Line....if we had more time to throw...we wouldn't be talking about fubles and interceptions....I wasn't thrilled with Brians play yest....but it seems no matter who we put back there right now...we will have trouble...Becky...you keep on making your points!::D
Bowl_Bound
Practice Squad
YUP
You go Becky
You go Becky
unfortunately i didn't see the whole game
but the INT i did see had nothing to do with the oline. it was a ball that should not been thrown. isn't this what the complaint with jay was...............poor decisions?!
but the INT i did see had nothing to do with the oline. it was a ball that should not been thrown. isn't this what the complaint with jay was...............poor decisions?!
PhinstiGator
Hungry For A Championship
Re: Re: It's funny how
NO, NO, NO, NO. The Quarterback must protect the ball! The quarterback must stay inside the pocket when throwing downfield. It takes Griese longer to take the 7 step drop. He makes a longer stride. It places him outside the protection of the pocket (9 to 11 yards from scrimmage) when there is a speed rusher on the outside. Especially, when the DE can run a 4.3 40.
He only needs to drop back 7 yards from the line of scrimmage. Set himself. Locate the target. Step up. Fire the ball to Chambers.
Fiedler would have been sacked big time if he had dropped back that deep against John Abraham. But, Wade Smith was able to harmlessly push the DE right on past the QB because he did not set that deep outside the ring of the pocket.
We are not a throw the ball down field team. Yes, occassionally...we will take advantage of an opportunity. But, we are a ball possession offensive team. We have to keep getting first downs. Plod downfield eating precious clock and resting the defense. Get in the redzone and score.
Instead of taking what is available...Griese is trying to make the big play and it is killing us with turnovers.
NO, NO, NO, NO. The Quarterback must protect the ball! The quarterback must stay inside the pocket when throwing downfield. It takes Griese longer to take the 7 step drop. He makes a longer stride. It places him outside the protection of the pocket (9 to 11 yards from scrimmage) when there is a speed rusher on the outside. Especially, when the DE can run a 4.3 40.
He only needs to drop back 7 yards from the line of scrimmage. Set himself. Locate the target. Step up. Fire the ball to Chambers.
Fiedler would have been sacked big time if he had dropped back that deep against John Abraham. But, Wade Smith was able to harmlessly push the DE right on past the QB because he did not set that deep outside the ring of the pocket.
We are not a throw the ball down field team. Yes, occassionally...we will take advantage of an opportunity. But, we are a ball possession offensive team. We have to keep getting first downs. Plod downfield eating precious clock and resting the defense. Get in the redzone and score.
Instead of taking what is available...Griese is trying to make the big play and it is killing us with turnovers.
PhinstiGator, I didn't see the game, but I have seen some where no receivers were still open after a 9 step drop back. Not saying that was the case yesterday, but according to the P by P, the P/R ratio was 10/2 up until Tenn got their 3rd TD. (Could have sworn I heard that the Miami coach was guaranteeing the ground game was going to get going.) Makes it a lot easier on a D if they KNOW they don't have to protect against both.
>We are not a throw the ball down field team< Well you are also NOT a rushing team, and therein lies the rub.
BTW, a Defensive End really ISN'T supposed to get pushed, harmlessly or not, right past the QB.
Getting 1st downs is great, if you can do it. It is going to take more than a QB to do it for the Dolphins. ANY QB!
>Instead of taking what is available...Griese is trying to make the big play and it is killing us with turnovers.<
Two arguments against that. Didn't see it so can't say for sure, but a lot of people seem to agree, there was nothing available in the alloted time, and, I really don't think 'any' QBs call their own plays. Just might be he was told to make something happen downfield.
>We are not a throw the ball down field team< Well you are also NOT a rushing team, and therein lies the rub.
BTW, a Defensive End really ISN'T supposed to get pushed, harmlessly or not, right past the QB.
Getting 1st downs is great, if you can do it. It is going to take more than a QB to do it for the Dolphins. ANY QB!
>Instead of taking what is available...Griese is trying to make the big play and it is killing us with turnovers.<
Two arguments against that. Didn't see it so can't say for sure, but a lot of people seem to agree, there was nothing available in the alloted time, and, I really don't think 'any' QBs call their own plays. Just might be he was told to make something happen downfield.
NYPhinFan and dreadlockera, Thanks guys. I wish I had seen the game because I don't like commenting on something I haven't seen. As it is, I think I got a better picture of the game than some other posters though.
I am not even trying to say Brian didn't make mistakes yesterday. From the score, and the P by P, it seems more than possible that the mistakes came when he was trying too hard to make something happen. Funny thing is Brett Favre, John Elway and a whole slew of QBs have had horrible days under the same circumstances.
I am not even trying to say Brian didn't make mistakes yesterday. From the score, and the P by P, it seems more than possible that the mistakes came when he was trying too hard to make something happen. Funny thing is Brett Favre, John Elway and a whole slew of QBs have had horrible days under the same circumstances.
PhinstiGator
Hungry For A Championship
Originally posted by Beckyj4
PhinstiGator, I didn't see the game, but I have seen some where no receivers were still open after a 9 step drop back. Not saying that was the case yesterday, but according to the P by P, the P/R ratio was 10/2 up until Tenn got their 3rd TD. (Could have sworn I heard that the Miami coach was guaranteeing the ground game was going to get going.) Makes it a lot easier on a D if they KNOW they don't have to protect against both.
The Defense was keying on Ricky...like every other Defense we play against. We just did not develop any drives. There were no small victories to build any momentum.
>We are not a throw the ball down field team< Well you are also NOT a rushing team, and therein lies the rub.
BTW, a Defensive End really ISN'T supposed to get pushed, harmlessly or not, right past the QB.
That happens to Jason Taylor on a regular basis. He is constantly flying behind the QB...sometimes he is just out of reach. When you have a DE that has that type of speed and he sets up outside and gets a good jump on the snap count...it is impossible for the LT to engage properly. His only chance is to ride his left shoulder and ride him as long as he can and try to give him a final shove past the protected covering of the pocket.
Wade Smith is an extremely athletic LT. He needs more upperbody strength to get more power in that final shove.
Getting 1st downs is great, if you can do it. It is going to take more than a QB to do it for the Dolphins. ANY QB!
>Instead of taking what is available...Griese is trying to make the big play and it is killing us with turnovers.<
Two arguments against that. Didn't see it so can't say for sure, but a lot of people seem to agree, there was nothing available in the alloted time, and, I really don't think 'any' QBs call their own plays. Just might be he was told to make something happen downfield.
The QB has a progression to go through. If no one is open he needs to drop it off to the saftey valve to gain some yardage so that we are not trapped in 3rd and long situations.
Norv uses timing patterns. Griese has 3.3 seconds to release the ball. During his sack fumbles, he is not even loading up to throw the ball. It's a disaster waiting to happen. If nothing is there, then he needs to throw it away or place the ball where the receiver has the only chance to make the reception.
The 12 - 17 yard timing routes should be there for both Chambers and McMichael with a 5 step drop. My contention is that the 5 step drop will actually give Griese more time to release the ball because of the angle that creates to inhibit the speed DE.
Griese did a great job at getting rid of the ball quickly in the first half against the Chargers. His deep pass to McMichael was a shorter drop...fake pump to the right and then fired the ball where only McMichael could get it. We need more of that!
PhinstiGator, I didn't see the game, but I have seen some where no receivers were still open after a 9 step drop back. Not saying that was the case yesterday, but according to the P by P, the P/R ratio was 10/2 up until Tenn got their 3rd TD. (Could have sworn I heard that the Miami coach was guaranteeing the ground game was going to get going.) Makes it a lot easier on a D if they KNOW they don't have to protect against both.
The Defense was keying on Ricky...like every other Defense we play against. We just did not develop any drives. There were no small victories to build any momentum.
>We are not a throw the ball down field team< Well you are also NOT a rushing team, and therein lies the rub.
BTW, a Defensive End really ISN'T supposed to get pushed, harmlessly or not, right past the QB.
That happens to Jason Taylor on a regular basis. He is constantly flying behind the QB...sometimes he is just out of reach. When you have a DE that has that type of speed and he sets up outside and gets a good jump on the snap count...it is impossible for the LT to engage properly. His only chance is to ride his left shoulder and ride him as long as he can and try to give him a final shove past the protected covering of the pocket.
Wade Smith is an extremely athletic LT. He needs more upperbody strength to get more power in that final shove.
Getting 1st downs is great, if you can do it. It is going to take more than a QB to do it for the Dolphins. ANY QB!
>Instead of taking what is available...Griese is trying to make the big play and it is killing us with turnovers.<
Two arguments against that. Didn't see it so can't say for sure, but a lot of people seem to agree, there was nothing available in the alloted time, and, I really don't think 'any' QBs call their own plays. Just might be he was told to make something happen downfield.
The QB has a progression to go through. If no one is open he needs to drop it off to the saftey valve to gain some yardage so that we are not trapped in 3rd and long situations.
Norv uses timing patterns. Griese has 3.3 seconds to release the ball. During his sack fumbles, he is not even loading up to throw the ball. It's a disaster waiting to happen. If nothing is there, then he needs to throw it away or place the ball where the receiver has the only chance to make the reception.
The 12 - 17 yard timing routes should be there for both Chambers and McMichael with a 5 step drop. My contention is that the 5 step drop will actually give Griese more time to release the ball because of the angle that creates to inhibit the speed DE.
Griese did a great job at getting rid of the ball quickly in the first half against the Chargers. His deep pass to McMichael was a shorter drop...fake pump to the right and then fired the ball where only McMichael could get it. We need more of that!
Regan21286
Wa Wa Wee Wa
Well, the Fins got some guy named Brad Bidell, a guard from Washington, but don't we really need a tackle, especially one with a lot of strength?
billy kilmer was probably the last person i'd pull out of a lineup as a QB, but he sure got the job done!