Jason Allen Hold Out | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Jason Allen Hold Out

Sick Naban said:
I love it how we demand loyalty from the players for our own selfish reasons, but have no problem when the team doesn't show the player that same loyalty or fairness. He will hold out until he gets the best deal possible. I am sure he wants to be in camp as much as we want him to be there. :sidelol:
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This isn't about loyalty, he hasn't been on board yet to say he is loyal. The bottom line is the end goal... winning! All of these new recruits, including Ronnie last year, are unproven. Based on a reasonable and appropriate contract offer they should and need to be in camp. None of this matters if they get in to camp late and underachieve because of it. Rookies are just that; experience and team chemistry are irreplaceable and can not be bought. We are in no position to judge if he has a good or bad contract offer on the table, but his agent has his career in his hands and he is ultimately responsible for his success. THIS KID HAS BEEN SIGNED BY A CONTENDING TEAM AND HE NEEDS TO BE IN CAMP...PERIOD!
 
Fin Fan in Cali said:
Johnny's bottom line here it takes both sides to get this done. Pointing fingers and calling so and so gets nothing done. Get Jason and his agent at the Dolphins headquarters and work this out face to face. It is funny the same people throwing Jason to the wolves will probably be the biggest Jason Allen's homers on the boards.:tongue:
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Hey Bro,

I don't like the fact that neither Allen nor his Agent is in town. I bet the Fins would have sweeten the signing bonus to get the 6 years that they want before camp. Now, I think Allen & agent may be losing a little ground now as I don't think the Fins would want to fold and set a new standard.

Did you get that remodeling done?
 
Nappy Roots said:
how do you disagree, and then go on to say its in the franchises best interest. not jasons. a FAIR deal would be a 5 year deal like everyone else....
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Because the longer we can tie up our players the better it is for the franchise.

Further because Allen has question marks surrounding him I'm not sure why he thinks he has as much leverage as he and his agent are trying to apply. If he was this un-questioned talent I could see his rational.
 
Mr Yu said:
Hey Bro,

I don't like the fact that neither Allen nor his Agent is in town. I bet the Fins would have sweeten the signing bonus to get the 6 years that they want before camp. Now, I think Allen & agent may be losing a little ground now as I don't think the Fins would want to fold and set a new standard.

Did you get that remodeling done?
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Bro Jason is losing leverage as you said, plus he is missing very important time, especially in his rookie year. The longer he is out, the longer it will take him to digest the playbook, and be an effective player to this club.

The remodeling is on hold as we got a new trailer so we have been camping. I am going to have to get back on it here very soon bro. How have you been?:wink:
 
I don't know, maybe its just me but if the 13th and the 11th pick can sign a 6 year contract and its in the collective barganing agreement then it seems it is well in the dolphins rights to ask for one also...

If I mustered a guess I'd say 11 of the top 16 will end up with 6 year deals- including the contracts that were "undisclosed"

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/9570812

Heck, using "undisclosed" would be a good way for Allen to save face...

But then again- thats just me.
 
ohall said:
Because the longer we can tie up our players the better it is for the franchise.

Further because Allen has question marks surrounding him I'm not sure why he thinks he has as much leverage as he and his agent are trying to apply. If he was this un-questioned talent I could see his rational.
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yes, the better it is for the franchise...but i didnt say the deal they are offering is bad for the franchise, i said its not fair...and its clearly not with the other contracts signed around him.
 
ohall said:
Because the longer we can tie up our players the better it is for the franchise.

Further because Allen has question marks surrounding him I'm not sure why he thinks he has as much leverage as he and his agent are trying to apply. If he was this un-questioned talent I could see his rational.
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I think what he was hoping for was that other players who were drafted before him would sign for less than 6 years and some of them have. Personally I don't really see anything wrong with what both sides are doing. It is definitely in the teams best interest to sign him to a 6 year deal and it is definantly in Allen's best interest to sign a 5 year deal. As CK pointed out a in VIP thread the difference between a 5 and a 6 year deal is that teams generally renegotiate contracts when one year is left. That means that if Allen turns into a star while on a five year deal we would end up paying him big bucks after just 4 years which would obviously be good for him. If he sign a 6 year deal we wouldn't renegotiate until after the 5th year meaning we would get an extra year at a "cheap" rookie price. (relatively speaking)

Saban also mentioned in one of his PC that this is not just about Allen's contract but also about setting a precedent for the future. Its also worth pointing out here that under the new CBA only the top 16 draft picks can sign 6 year deals. Picks 17 and on have a max 5 year limit. The Dolphins are within there rights to ask for a 6 year deal but they are right on the edge. Like I said I understand there position and I certainly hope (as a fan) that Allen signs a 6 year contract tomorrow because it would be the most beneficial to the Dolphins but I also very much understand that this is a business negotiation. IMO Allen is probably being smart from a business perspective to sit back and let some of these other guys sign to see how many years they get and then try and use that as leverage to get a similar length deal. It may work and it may not but it probably isn't a bad play.
 
Fin Fan in Cali said:
Bro Jason is losing leverage as you said, plus he is missing very important time, especially in his rookie year. The longer he is out, the longer it will take him to digest the playbook, and be an effective player to this club.

The remodeling is on hold as we got a new trailer so we have been camping. I am going to have to get back on it here very soon bro. How have you been?:wink:
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Bro,

You call it camping , women call it living out doors.

Being the only male with 4 women in the house , I have to take Testosterone treatments 1 or 2 times a week per my family Doctor. I have particular problems in the off season and alternatives have to be pursued. It's a rough cycle usually including something barbequed ( pork is recommended ), beer (no light beer as sensitivity can be a side effect) and a Shwarzenegger flick like Commando and I'm good. However, trips to the Mall require Chuck Norris , malt liquor and a trip to the Finheaven Ladies Lounge.

You know me , I suffer quietly.

Peace, Bro.
 
Nappy Roots said:
yes, the better it is for the franchise...but i didnt say the deal they are offering is bad for the franchise, i said its not fair...and its clearly not with the other contracts signed around him.
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Fair is what you can get Nappy. If most of the top 16 end up being six year deals than next year 6 year deals will be "fair". If many of say that 10-16 picks sign 5 year deals than next year agents will say that only 5 year deals are "fair". There really isn't any exact science as to what is fair, its just a matter of what everyone can get away with.
 
dolphan117 said:
Fair is what you can get Nappy. If most of the top 16 end up being six year deals than next year 6 year deals will be "fair". If many of say that 10-16 picks sign 5 year deals than next year agents will say that only 5 year deals are "fair". There really isn't any exact science as to what is fair, its just a matter of what everyone can get away with.
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Well, in the draft for the most part there is a science to what is fair...What slot you were drafted in, and what the players in your position got money and years wise...all combined together, and you pretty much ALWAYS get a contract in there....
 
Nappy Roots said:
Well, in the draft for the most part there is a science to what is fair...What slot you were drafted in, and what the players in your position got money and years wise...all combined together, and you pretty much ALWAYS get a contract in there....
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The problem is that Saban/Mueller are maintaining that the slot Allen was drafted in under the new CBA that the players just signed says that a anyone drafted in the top 16 slots can sign 6 year deals. One of Sabans comments was that was part of the value of the 16th pick. You are right though about what players around him have gotten, that does strengthen his argument. I still don't think its unfair for the Dolphins to ask for 6 years though, per the CBA they can and per the CBA Allen can say no. I don't think either one is being unfair, I just hope they can come to an agreement soon so Allen can get to camp. Personally I hope the Dolphins end up sweetening the deal a little (maybe in that 5th and 6th year) in exchange for Allen signing 6 year deal.

Thats it for me. :goodnight
 
larfo2224 said:
I am not sure exactly where I heard it, so don't ask for a link, but I believe it was not the issue of money but the duration of the contract. The dolphins want to sign him to a 6 year deal which is their right under the new CBA and the player and his agent want to sign a 5 year deal so he can become a free agent sooner. My personal feeling is that the organization needs to stick to their guns and exercise their right to the 6 year deal. I personally don't car what the other players or organizations have done. If they dont have the stones to force players to live up to the terms of the CBA that is their right.
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right...so your infavor of keeping him out of camp........
 
I am not sure exactly where I heard it, so don't ask for a link, but I believe it was not the issue of money but the duration of the contract. The dolphins want to sign him to a 6 year deal which is their right under the new CBA and the player and his agent want to sign a 5 year deal so he can become a free agent sooner. My personal feeling is that the organization needs to stick to their guns and exercise their right to the 6 year deal. I personally don't car what the other players or organizations have done. If they dont have the stones to force players to live up to the terms of the CBA that is their right.
 
Geforce said:
Why not put some of the blame on the Dolphins front office for once again playing hard ball like they do with all the top picks over the past decade. They could just give Allen a five year deal and he would be in camp. This is not about having a different agenda than anyone else. It's business.
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Nicely put
 
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