Jason Allen Hold Out | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Jason Allen Hold Out

Why not just give him 5 years?

Everyone knows the guy won't see the end of that contract. If he turns into a star we'll give him a contract extension and if he busts we'll cut him before it expires.

Everyone around him has signed 4-5 year deals. I think the Phins are playing hardball and everyone could lose in the end.

Allen misses reps and falls a year behind, our secondary is missing a valuable asset and it creates animosity between the team and the player.

Get his *** into camp!
 
unifiedtheory said:
Why not just give him 5 years?
Everyone knows the guy won't see the end of that contract. If he turns into a star we'll give him a contract extension and if he busts we'll cut him before it expires.
Everyone around him has signed 4-5 year deals. I think the Phins are playing hardball and everyone could lose in the end.
Allen misses reps and falls a year behind, our secondary is missing a valuable asset and it creates animosity between the team and the player.
Get his *** into camp!
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Is it because his cap hit over 6 years is less than over 5? Maybe that extra $500,000 or so per year can go to a much needed injury replacement later in that year?
 
They should just give him the same signing bonus he would get for 5 years, spread it over six (a six year contract), and calculate the franchise tag for a DB from now into six years, make that the salary in the sixth year, if he gets signed for 5 and play well he would obviously get franchise tagged at least so I guess he would agree to that.

Besides the front office would have the chance to see if he does turn out that good, if he does, he gets an extension from year five and get him his fat payday right where he wants, plus if he doesnt turn out to be THAT good the FO could just cut him after June 1 on his 5th year and still spread the signing bonus over 6 years...Its not THAT hard...

Though if the Phins have already made an offer with this structure and the agent rejected it then he is the one who is wrong...
 
whatsburning said:
Is it because his cap hit over 6 years is less than over 5? Maybe that extra $500,000 or so per year can go to a much needed injury replacement later in that year?
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Exactly, this is a big deal when you are the Dolphins and cap space is gold.. If Allen had been the 17th pick he would have been in camp already but since he is the 16th pick and in the top half of the 1st round, the Phins will do everything in their power to make sure he signs a 6 year deal... Sorry its just the way business at this level is conducted..
 
This whole thing wouldn't look so bad on Allen if he or

his agent had not made comments about not forseeing an issue with holding out. Because they made that comment or comments and made it public, this makes them look a little suspect. If I were Allen's agent I would not make any public comments or allow Allen to make any comments about whether there would be a holdout or not. Because they did they are subject to some criticism.

Lee2000
 
Nappy Roots said:
No, the problem is the Dolphins arent offering him a fair contract...
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Mot entirely true....the $$$ is agreeable but Miami wants Allen to sign a six year deal and Allen wants to sign a five year deal. Who will blink first? My money is on Allen...Saban can play some poker!
 
I don't think Allen is in a win win situation. He losing valuable training time, that a rookie needs. The veterans admitted that they are just really grasping the complicated defensive scheme after a year. What's Allen going to do when he comes in? He surely isn't going to be in shape, as those who came into camp. In general he really isn't going to be up to par until next year. So we lose a year, why not ask for 6yrs. He is not going to hold out forever, because if he holds out and goes back into the draft next year, he certainly won't be drafted this high. he will lose a year of money and will get a lot less of a contract. So yes he will sign eventually, but it will only hurt this team.
 
Is there any new info out there? Do we even have an idea if the two sides have spoken again? I would hope both sides are at least making an effort to contact one another every day...

Any bets on how long this thing is going to go? Hey might as well have some fun with this. It is starting to just get annoying. Sort of like Ronnie last year.
 
Oboy said:
Is there any new info out there? Do we even have an idea if the two sides have spoken again? I would hope both sides are at least making an effort to contact one another every day...

Any bets on how long this thing is going to go? Hey might as well have some fun with this. It is starting to just get annoying. Sort of like Ronnie last year.
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:( yeah. everyone's losing out.
 
I don't think Bush, Young, et. al. feel they got a bad deal with six year contracts.

It's very simple. Almost all the six year deals have incentives. If the player reaches those in year 1, 2, or 3, the sixth year becomes voidable. That way, if the player turns out to be very good - he gets the benefit of a five year contract and the opportunity to become a free agent sooner. In almost every case those incentives are based on playing time and other reachable factors.

On the other hand, the sixth year benefits the 'Phins if Allen takes longer to develop. A safety position is not like RB or DL or LB where a guy can come in and contribute almost immediately on talent alone. There's no guarantee Allen will start this year - you just never know for certain. If he doesn't it basically becomes a 4 year deal (if Allen gets his way). If the Dolphins get the 6th year and Allen takes time to develop - they are protected. At the same time, the agent can ask for more money for that sixth year. Guys like Bush and Young can earn up to $55-60 million over six years if they reach their incentives. That's not too shabby! I don't think Allen will make that much, of course, but he can get significant bucks nevertheless.

A sixth year with an incentive to drop it benefits both the player and the team. It's all about whether the player believes he can get the job done and earn his contract. If he does, he has nothing to worry about signing his a six year deal. Otherwise, he's just out for the money or doesn't have confidence he'll be a starter right away (in which case he doesn't deserve the $$).

Btw, don't blame the teams for a "lack of loyalty." Blame the NFLPA! They have been dominated by the league. Every owner in every league will go without guaranteed contracts if they can get away with it. For various reasons, the NFLPA is unwilling to pressure the league for better contract circumstances. This is the system the players signed off on! If they don't like it - they shouldn't have agreed to it.

Ultimately, I put the blame at least as much on the shoulders of Allen, unless the Dolphins are only willing to offer a 6 year deal with no option to get out of it and not a huge $$$ increase.
 
GreenMonster said:
Exactly, this is a big deal when you are the Dolphins and cap space is gold.. If Allen had been the 17th pick he would have been in camp already but since he is the 16th pick and in the top half of the 1st round, the Phins will do everything in their power to make sure he signs a 6 year deal... Sorry its just the way business at this level is conducted..
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right. Allwong the sixth year was to mitigate the cap impact on the top 16 players -- rookies who demand big money for never playing an NFL down. Allowing teams to spread that a bit is a small incentive for committing millions to unproven guys. Good for the fins for wanting to invoke this right. 1st Rd picks have nothing to complain about in this leauge
 
Da 'Fins said:
So, since you know this ... how about demonstrating this knowledge by stating how much the Dolphins are offering, what the length of the deal is, what clauses, etc. are involved and why, exactly, based on all that pertinent information, it is not "fair." And, btw, define what is and isn't fair for a rookie contract, drafted #16.

Otherwise - don't make mindless accusations.

The fact is, the agent for Allen already stated that the money in the contract was agreeable but that it was the 6 year deal that was holding things up.

Of course, other players have signed for six years (including Bush and Young), so there goes that issue as an "unfair" part of the contract.

No one knows for sure if they have or have not done this, but I do think they should have incentives in for the first couple of years that could allow for a voiding of the 6th year - that's what most of the others have done. But, if Allen stays out many more days, he won't be able to reach many incentives this year b/c he's not going to get PT the way he thinks. If he thinks he can waltz into camp and know the system - he's an arrogant idiot.
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Lol, Bush and Young are already making top dollars for their positions, they have a far more vested interest in getting 6 years. The problem is that even if Allen turns out to be the best damn safety in the nfl, he'll still be making rookie money in the prime of his career. Also I dont buy that bs about the dolphins renegotiating his contract in 4 years if he turns out to be a major stud for the team. I mean if they are being such hardasses now about locking him up for so long on his rookie contract, what makes it so probable they will be so generous later? I think their attitude now is making Allen even more determined about getting the 5 years.
 
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