Jets Williams on Tua: "he’ll be an amazing quarterback"

[juniorseau55]

We don't know if his opinion was biased or not. It could have been.

Find me were his statements about TUA were false and then we have something to talk about! Otherwise I have to assume if his statements weren't false and he has a good general background in football, the only reasonable assumption left is that his statement are true, i.e. accurate.

His being a friend of Tua no more defines his statements about Tua as being biased then most "talking heads" statements are, at the very least, untrustworthy.

Rayyyyyy!!!

 

[Digital]

So pure speculation. Nothing from Dolphin brass on recruiting Watson.

I know a lot of you hope it's true but I've seen nothing from the Dolphins FO or brass indicating interest like you stated.

Not sure what you're saying. At no point did I ever say the Dolphins brass said anything. In fact, I have consistently stated that the reports were NOT official statements from the Dolphins but REPORTS that we were making actions behind the scenes.

Kinda sounds like you're trying to misquote me brother.

 

[andyahs]

Everyone is interpreting and/or parsing Williams' statement, so let me jump into this clusterfork too.

IMO, Williams could have gone the PC route when pressed by saying something like "I'm confident that Tua will be successful." Predicting he will be "awesome" which is a very polarizing adjective is going saying what's right to what he believes! Also, yes he was a teammate, but as a defensive player who saw him in practice, is someone like Simms sitting in his lazyboy really more qualified than Williams who faced Tua every day to make such a judgment? I respectfully submit: hell no!

But Simms once pretended to be an NFL QB

 

[andyahs]

Not sure what you're saying. At no point did I ever say the Dolphins brass said anything. In fact, I have consistently stated that the reports were NOT official statements from the Dolphins but REPORTS that we were making actions behind the scenes.

Kinda sounds like you're trying to misquote me brother.

No not trying to misquote you but someone saying the Dolphins should look into getting Watson or the FO should explore options is not the dolphin brass telling anyone anything of interest in him.

 

[RobertHorry]

I do think both were poor. I never said they were equal. How about you compare Tua's rookie season to his fellow rookies? How about you compare his defense to those of the other rookies? How about you compare Tua's rookie season to other top 10 QB's from the past 3 or 4 years. No matter how you break it down, our team won because of defense, not offense. Tua's rookie season was not good enough. The QB needs to elevate his teammmates, and Tua did not. The Dolphins OL, long a horrible OL, was average. Our OL was significantly better than that of Cincinnati and Los Angeles, yet both rookie QB's showed the ability to rise above that and score points. Tua consistently played it safe and had to be bailed out on multiple occasions, so he was spared from taking his lumps except for the final Buffalo game, where he was forced to win a game and failed.

No matter how you analyze it, Tua's 2020 performance was not good enough to hold onto the starting QB job for the next decade. When you draft a QB that high, you not only expect a 10+ year starter, you expect a star. For Tua to reach that level, he must improve. Period.

Lol bro his rookie performance was not good enough for another year? And your trying to bring Josh Rosen as a comp? Wtf? If you say they play at all similarly in their rookie years I have nothing else to say.

Of course he has to improve but for a rookie it wasn’t “poor”. It was average.



L

 

[39wildman]

NFL qb job is not that easy.Tua have too show me now.. I dont want here.what he is going be. No knock on Tua..

 

[AZStryker]

I do think both were poor. I never said they were equal. How about you compare Tua's rookie season to his fellow rookies? How about you compare his defense to those of the other rookies? How about you compare Tua's rookie season to other top 10 QB's from the past 3 or 4 years. No matter how you break it down, our team won because of defense, not offense. Tua's rookie season was not good enough. The QB needs to elevate his teammmates, and Tua did not. The Dolphins OL, long a horrible OL, was average. Our OL was significantly better than that of Cincinnati and Los Angeles, yet both rookie QB's showed the ability to rise above that and score points. Tua consistently played it safe and had to be bailed out on multiple occasions, so he was spared from taking his lumps except for the final Buffalo game, where he was forced to win a game and failed.

No matter how you analyze it, Tua's 2020 performance was not good enough to hold onto the starting QB job for the next decade. When you draft a QB that high, you not only expect a 10+ year starter, you expect a star. For Tua to reach that level, he must improve. Period.

There is a clear bias here so I don’t know why I’m even replying. Regardless I’ll play. The two stat lines were clearly and noticeably different to anybody with any semblance of objectivity. If you want to create a separate category with Tua being poor and Rosen being a train wreck then fine, however that isn’t even enough if a gap to differentiate the two.

The fact is that if any other rookie QBs had that stat line other than Tua people would be fine with it if not extremely encouraged/excited. However because it’s Tua, from Bama with all that fanfare, it’s poor and unacceptable. See the bias yet?

Next, which QBs taken in the last 3 to 4 years do you consider “top 10?” Most of my top ten consists of QBs with more (in most cases much more) experience than that. If you’re just talking all rookie QBs in a 4 year period, Tua fares pretty well.

Where did I ever mention winning or Tua’s record in my post? How about oline or weapons, did I mention those either? Nah, thats just grasping onto straw man arguments to support an anti Tua agenda.

 

[Digital]

No not trying to misquote you but someone saying the Dolphins should look into getting Watson or the FO should explore options is not the dolphin brass telling anyone anything of interest in him.

Actually I am not saying we should look into getting Watson. That is incorrect. You probably mistook me for another poster.

I'm saying that there have been reports that the Dolphins may be looking into trading for Watson, and that is true. I provided evidence of it simply because you requested it. Now you're changing the question, so I'm simply explaining that what I originally said, that there have been reports the Dolphins may be looking into trading for Watson, is backed by reports and I showed you some of those reports.

Look, you may love Tua, that's just fine. But the reality is that not everyone is convinced yet. It is not unreasonable to believe the Dolphins staff, while saying all the right things, is not considering an upgrade over Tua. These reports suggest that it may be the case. Trying to trivialize those reports does not change the situation at all. I have no control over what the Dolphins decide to do, and neither do you. I'm just trying to convey the reality of the situation. Hope that's not offensive in any way. But, please focus your criticism of me to the arguments presented by me, not arguments some other posters may have made. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Digital]

Lol bro his rookie performance was not good enough for another year? And your trying to bring Josh Rosen as a comp? Wtf? If you say they play at all similarly in their rookie years I have nothing else to say.

Of course he has to improve but for a rookie it wasn’t “poor”. It was average.



L

Ummm, please re-read my earlier posts bro. You are incorrectly categorizing my critique.

All I'm saying is that he's not there YET. That the Dolphins will ultimately judge him on who he is, and that the point of time is typically 3 years, but for our last young QB phenom it was only 2 years. I compared his time of evaluation to Rosen and said Tua will get more time. But the reality is that the NFL will judge him on production ... and it will not be after one rookie season, but it probably will be done by 3 years of play. Hope that clears it up. Rosen was the last QB I had to explain to a bazillion people on this board that the NFL will judge a young QB on production. Thus, why this feels a bit like deja vu. Production ... that's the veteran metric. Potential is the draft metric.

 

[Digital]

There is a clear bias here so I don’t know why I’m even replying. Regardless I’ll play. The two stat lines were clearly and noticeably different to anybody with any semblance of objectivity. If you want to create a separate category with Tua being poor and Rosen being a train wreck then fine, however that isn’t even enough if a gap to differentiate the two.

The fact is that if any other rookie QBs had that stat line other than Tua people would be fine with it if not extremely encouraged/excited. However because it’s Tua, from Bama with all that fanfare, it’s poor and unacceptable. See the bias yet?

Next, which QBs taken in the last 3 to 4 years do you consider “top 10?” Most of my top ten consists of QBs with more (in most cases much more) experience than that. If you’re just talking all rookie QBs in a 4 year period, Tua fares pretty well.

Where did I ever mention winning or Tua’s record in my post? How about oline or weapons, did I mention those either? Nah, thats just grasping onto straw man arguments to support an anti Tua agenda.

Think what you like. I have no anti-Tua agenda .... just like I had no anti-Rosen agenda ... just like I had no pro-Fitzpatrick agenda ... just like I had no anti-Moore agenda or pro-Tannehill agenda ... or anti-John Beck or anti-Chad Henne agendas ... all of which I"ve been accused of having here over the years. I've simply said who I thought would produce, and often I'm correct. I've been wrong too though, as I expected Cutler to do better than he did. I did expect Justin Herbert to be a success, and I took a lot of criticism before the draft from everyone claiming that Herbert was a sure fire bust and that Tua was the next great QB, well ... so far we don't see that. So far, my evaluation of QB's seem pretty good in all honesty.

QB's need to help an offense score points. Clearly Tua was less efficient with the Dolphins offense than Ryan Fitzpatrick with the Dolphins offense in 2020. If you think Fitzmagic is great, so be it. If you think his level of play is what we want from a top draft pick, so be it. But most people outside of Miami fans think Fitzmagic was a good but not great QB. Most people outside of Miami fans compare Tua to Herbert and Burrow and there is a very strong consensus that at the moment Tua is definitely the least successful of the three, and he has the lowest ceiling of the three. But almost everyone, me included, thinks that we've just scratched the surface with these three guys, and that they will all improve over time, including Tua.

It's difficult to have an opinion around here sometimes. I state what I believe and why I believe it, and people just love to snipe with snarky comments and very little to back it up. Look, believe what you want. Think what you want. But let's just agree to disagree. Those thinking Tua is Drew Brees ... I suspect will be denying they ever thought that. How good Tua can become, that's a different conversation entirely. I think he can become a better than average NFL QB, and very much hope he does. But, he's just not great because he succeeded at Alabama. By the end of the 2022 season we will be judging Tua by how he has performed, and anyone who doubts that will likely realize it before that time comes.

 

[Tua808]

11 TD's in 9 games. That's slightly better than 1 per game. If you want to call it 8 games and give him a freebee for the bit part appearance, that's fair, so 11 in 8? Want to then round it up to 1.5? The bottom line is clear, Tua had a poor rookie season and spinning it any other way isn't really fair. He was a rookie. Those are often bad seasons. But have 2 more and you're Josh Rosen. And for Josh Rosen, it only took 2 not 3. The NFL is a harsh judge. Tua needs to come back out of this offseason significantly better ... and I think he will.

Had Tua produced like Justin Herbert we wouldn't have all these reports about the Dolphins brass recruiting Deshaun Watson. The NFL is a cruel mistress, and it doesn't reward second-best. Tua must improve.

He deserves to be cut or traded. With those kind of stats, what's the point in keeping him?