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****Justin Herbert Super Thread****

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Tua hasnt looked all worldly against good competition either. In the NFL, all players are good. System and coaching make a big difference. Just look at Tannehill on the Dolphins vs the Titans version. Foles on the Eagles vs everywhere else.

Point is we dont know. Healthy Tua vs Herbert is a no brainer but injury prone Tua vs Herbert is more even than most think.
Herbert being compared to Tua really isnt fair to Herbert ~ Herbert is a project. If someone had to rush Tua he can be your starter. I personally wouldnt rush any of these QBs for various reasons

How did Tua look against that LSU defense this past year?? :bobdole:

How did the other QBs fair against the LSU defense??? :ponder:
 
Herbert being compared to Tua really isnt fair to Herbert ~ Herbert is a project. If someone had to rush Tua he can be your starter. I personally wouldnt rush any of these QBs for various reasons

How did Tua look against that LSU defense this past year?? :bobdole:

How did the other QBs fair against the LSU defense??? :ponder:
How did Burrow look against the Bama and Clemson D's this year? How did other QBs fare? :)
 
How did Burrow look against the Bama and Clemson D's this year? How did other QBs fare? :)
I am responding to a Herbert thread and question about Tua - I am not sure why you are hijacking my comment

But yes Burrow looked Damn good and that is why the Bungles will take him at #1 then you will see him struggle and I will be right

Did Bama have a down year it is hard to win every year??? Did Clemson graduate their stud Dline a year before??

But I won’t write anyone I told you so
 
And not because I think he is a waste, but I feel he is more of a west coast guy to be honest and would be best served being taken by a team out west.
Hopefully he will like the East Coast too, especially after the Dolphins select him with the 5th pick.
 
Hope you are ready to be disappointed
I will not be disappointed if Tua is the selection. While I have concerns regarding his ability to stay healthy at the NFL level, he was the QB I wanted them to draft prior to his hip surgery. If he is still on the board at 5 and they draft him, I will have no problem with that selection. I just don’t want them to trade two first round draft picks to move up to draft him because of his injury history.

I think Herbert might be the QB the Dolphins might be leaning toward simply because of Tua’s hip surgery but I’ll take either of them at 5 and be very happy.
 
I will not be disappointed if Tua is the selection. While I have concerns regarding his ability to stay healthy at the NFL level, he was the QB I wanted them to draft prior to his hip surgery. If he is still on the board at 5 and they draft him, I will have no problem with that selection. I just don’t want them to trade two first round draft picks to move up to draft him because of his injury history.

I think Herbert might be the QB the Dolphins might be leaning toward simply because of Tua’s hip surgery but I’ll take either of them at 5 and be very happy.

See I find that interesting because I believe Herbert has slipped a number four on their list. he’s the only guy they have not tried to sneak in for a work out or really been linked to at all. They tried to sneak in Tua before the quarantine they are able to get Love in there’s obvious interest in burrow but other than Mike Tannenbaum’s connection really no link to Herbert in my opinion
 
See I find that interesting because I believe Herbert has slipped a number four on their list. he’s the only guy they have not tried to sneak in for a work out or really been linked to at all. They tried to sneak in Tua before the quarantine they are able to get Love in there’s obvious interest in burrow but other than Mike Tannenbaum’s connection really no link to Herbert in my opinion
They were able to interview Herbert and watch him work out and play at the Senior Bowl and the combine. They also sent staff to watch him play in a few games at Oregon last year. So perhaps they felt they had a good determination of whether they want to draft him or not. Love is a big question mark for not only the Dolphins but many NFL teams and therefore having him in would be helpful to the Dolphins.
I think their attempt to get Tua in before the shutdown was more about having their doctors examine him. I think they have always had an interest in Tua but the hip surgery and his other injuries have certainly raised concerns from the owner on down in the organization.
I really have no idea what you mean about the Tannenbaum connection regarding Herbert. There have been reports over the last few months that the Dolphins have shown interest in Herbert and the last I checked, Tannenbaum is no longer associated with the Dolphins.
Personally I would have no problem with the Dolphins trading all three of their draft picks in the first round to trade up to the top pick for Burrow. Yet I don’t see the Bengals making that trade. Otherwise I would prefer the Dolphins stay at five and hopefully Tua or Herbert will be available with that pick. I really would rather they draft Simmons with that pick if Burrow, Tua, and Herbert are already off the board when they select at five. I just don’t think Love is worth a top five pick. In fact I don’t think he is worth a first round pick but obviously some team will waste a first round pick on him. I just hope it’s not the Dolphins.
 
Toughest decision facing Dolphins, and how 2 reasonable people can see it differently
March 30, 2020 04:56 PM, Updated March 30, 2020 05:28 PM

Boise State safety Kekoa Nawahine knows Oregon is a different team when QB Justin Herbert is playing
Boise State sophomore Kekoa Nawahine discusses playing Oregon in the Las Vegas Bowl, the Broncos' rivalry with the Ducks and more. By Dave Southorn
Chris Simms and Dan Orlovsky both were backup quarterbacks in the NFL. Both have forged successful television careers, Simms with NBC and Orlovsky with ESPN. Both offer thoughtful analysis, which is evident from their broadcast work and my conversations with each of them during Super Bowl week on Miami Beach.

And the fact they can watch the same quarterback — Justin Herbert — and come away with such vastly different opinions feeds into my belief that the Oregon quarterback represents the most difficult/important player evaluation Dolphins general manager Chris Grier will make in at least three years of running the team’s draft.

Here’s what Simms had to say about Herbert: “I think he’s got the best arm of any of these quarterbacks in this draft. A really gifted thrower [who] allows an offense to open up. Really good athlete, can throw with people around him and, to me, can make the most ‘wow’ throws out of anybody I’ve seen in this draft at this point…


“He might not be the quickest or the fastest to accelerate, but he’s the fastest quarterback out of all the guys when he opens up. He’s a special athlete that way. I think he has an incredibly high ceiling like Jordan Love. They can be superstar physical talents who I think can take over games. If you ask me who is the guy in this draft that maybe has a chance to be the next Patrick Mahomes, who in Year 3 of their career, you are going, ‘this guy is unbelievable,’ I think Herbert from what I’ve seen, has got superstar talent.”

And here’s what Orlovsky had to say about the same player: “I would be scared to death to draft Justin Herbert early. My analogy with houses is this. It’s almost like real estate. Justin Herbert is the really good-built home. Looks the part. Has got a bunch of upgrades. But you can’t sell it. For some reason, it’s just sitting on the market and you can’t sell it and you walk away from seeing the home every single time and you say, ‘Something is not right with that house. I don’t know exactly what it is.’”

And that perfectly captures how polarizing Herbert is as a prospect, how two reasonable people can watch him and come to such different conclusions.

What we know, as colleague Armando Salguero has reported, is the Dolphins very much like Herbert’s skill set and have been giving him strong consideration with the fifth pick. I can tell you that Herbert has some strong support internally, but that it’s not unanimous. NFL Network’s Daniel Jeremiah said last week that sources within the scouting community told him that the Dolphins have high grades on Herbert and Tua Tagovailoa (as well as Joe Burrow, obviously).

We can also tell you that the fact the Dolphins cannot have any more in-person contact with Tagovailoa — and have their own doctors examine him again in person — helps Herbert’s chances of being a Dolphin. I wouldn’t be surprised, at this point, whichever way Miami goes with Tagovailoa and Herbert.

Any team drafting Herbert must feel comfortable that his physical gifts outweigh any concerns about his quiet leadership approach, stretches of head-scratching inaccuracy and erratic performance when facing a pass rush.

“There’s been enough to make you really apprehensive,” Tim Hasselbeck, another former NFL quarterback and ESPN analyst, said of Herbert. “At his size, his ability to throw the football is really rare. People really fall in love with that. When you watch the Oregon film, it gets really boring watching him throw another screen at the line of scrimmage or throw a fake screen or rail route after it.

“I don’t want to say it’s gimmicky but you’re not seeing a lot of the same concepts you see often in the NFL, but then you also see two runs against Wisconsin where you are like, ‘Wow.’ A guy that can throw it like that that can make that type of run. There are tools to work with here.”

From a metric and analytic standpoint, we broke down all the positives and the concerns about Herbert in this piece last month. It explained how among 129 qualifying FBS quarterbacks last season, Herbert ranked 124th in negatively graded play rate under pressure, per Pro Football Focus.

But it also explained how, from a clean pocket, Herbert has the highest accurate pass rate in the 2020 draft class among throws of at least 20 yards.

So for every negative about Herbert, you can come up with a couple of positives.

And that makes Grier’s final decision on Herbert the most important and difficult one he will make in 2020 for this reason: His view on Herbert dictates everything Miami does at the top of this draft.

If Grier decides he’s a better prospect than Tagovailoa — with Tua’s durability factored in — he can probably sit tight and not try to trade up. If Grier has doubts, that would be a motivator to try to move up for Tagovailoa, if the Dolphins are willing to take a leap of faith with the durability issue.

Tagovailoa, by contrast, is an easy evaluation for a personnel man; everyone knows he’s really good. With Tagovailoa, the pressure is on the medical staff to evaluate the information and advise the personnel department about his chances of staying healthy long-term.

Grier is certainly not making this decision alone. Coach Brian Flores, Dan Marino, consultant David Lee and executives Reggie McKenzie, Marvin Allen and Adam Engroff — along with scouts — will all give opinions.

Ultimately, though, it rests with Grier. Does he gamble Miami’s future on a quarterback who is so physically gifted but makes some evaluators uncomfortable?

ESPN’s Mel Kiper Jr. sums it all up this way about Herbert:

“I had said during the year that he’s a tough player to evaluate because you love his physical and athletic ability. You love the talent. But there was something missing. Was it lack of great instincts? Not throwing with great anticipation? Whatever it was, there was something missing.

“Late in the year, though, he got it together, had some strong games, ran the football really effectively in the Rose Bowl. Beat Utah with all that defensive talent even though he had seven straight incompletions late third quarter into the fourth in that game. Still a little inconsistent.

“Senior Bowl week helped him. Senior Bowl game helped him. Remember, he outperformed Jordan Love in Mobile. At the Combine, he threw the ball well. [Same with Pro Day]. It seems like he’s thrived once he got away from that Oregon offense through the process.”

The Chargers and Raiders already have arranged video calls with Herbert, according to NFL Network. The Dolphins had not as of Friday, but it wouldn’t be surprising if that changes. Either way, Miami already has spent time with him earlier this offseason.

Grier must ask himself these questions until he has answers he can live with: Is he so confident that Herbert will become a very good NFL quarterback that there’s no need to trade draft assets to move up for Tagovailoa? And if both are on the board at No. 5, is he so confident in Herbert that he would be a safer pick over a better prospect (Tua) with major durability concerns?

It’s only the next decade of Dolphins football that could be resting on Grier’s

 
Thanks for posting. Always good to get the wide spectrum of the media view of a player like Herbert. It's truly is a love/hate prospect. One man's trash is another man's treasure comes to mind as the most stereotypical phrase to sum it up.
 
Herbert is an intriguing prospect because even though he is a talented thrower the coaching staff at Oregon never consistently played to his strengths. You wonder if the coaching staff had to limit the play calling because he (or other young players) couldn’t handle a more complex system or if Cristobal is a Gase style coach who simply runs his system regardless of player fit. Their loss vs Arizona State had arguably some of the worst play calling I have seen until they let Herbert rip it and they got back into the game.

I will say the stat about him being terrible under pressure is kind of misleading...all QBs in the NFL are bad under pressure right in their face. In watching him play this season I noticed there seemed to be a lot of OL/RB miscommunication in pass pro because guys were getting free shots at him multiple times a game.

There are definitely some question marks surrounding Herbert. Hopefully our staff did their due diligence and then some (which seems likely since we’ve had scouts at Oregon games for at least 2 years). Personally, I think Tua is the QB we want and Herbert is the fallback guy if things don’t go in our favor draft day.
 
Great information. One of the biggest questions is how much the Oregon offense held him back.

As the article pointed out, Herbert played well in the Senior Bowl and helped himself at the combine.

The rumor that Miami wants to trade up to #1 is interesting. Whether or not that is true, Burrow has the fewest questions of any of the quarterbacks. Add that to comparisons to Tom Brady and you can see the Dolphins interest.

Personally, I see a drop from Burrow and Tua to Herbert. That said, Herbert could be special. The talent is there and he could be a good fit in a spread offense.
 
And how is it that anyone can miss the mental processing piece between the ears is beyond me - the guy is a fantastic project to sit behind a starter for a few years

He is like Cam Newton for me great Runner until his lower half betrays him - years down the road maybe but the legs set up the throws - and a one read QB who loses his legs begins to throw behind over and under his later reads

And the passing game tape s just not there cannon or not he can make some dazzling plays tho - except when you need him to

And yes I kno Tua got hurt but he is at boy strength his man strength is yet to come just watch and see - that he is still growing into his frame
 
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