LeBron James...PROOF that Loyalty DOESN'T MATTER... | Page 16 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

LeBron James...PROOF that Loyalty DOESN'T MATTER...

Remember when Kobe quit a few times to send a message? LeBron can only do so much on his own. Kobe could only do so much on his own. Dudes need help man. Neither one of them was getting it. Admit it.

Kobe did quit but luckily for him that didn't last.

I dont think so. Maybe mike with the cavs and Phil Jackson as the coach...Then yea maybe they win something.... Lebron wanted out of Cleavland. Face it. He wanted to play with his friends..They may still not even win the title. Your just mad that he is not a Knick. Just own up to it. If he was in NY right now you would have 10 Jerseys. Get over it.

Micahel, against this weak league would w/o question have won at leasta title in the last 3-4 years w/ Cleveland and probably more than one.

I am NOT a Knick fan, I am NOT an NBA fan. NBA basketball is boring, the finals last year was some of the worst played basketball I have ever seen so let's put this notion to bed that I wanted Lebron. As a basketball fan I did want him to stay in Cleveland and help get that franchise over the hump cementing his legacy in this game but he took the easy way out which is disappointing as a basketball fan.

By the way, this notion of "handed to him" is foolish. This is the NBA. This is professional basketball. Whatever you get is earned. Nothing is handed to anyone.

They still have to win but it's alot easier to win when you join an all-star team. He wanted a ready made team, he didn't want to keep building in Cleveland. He had teams good enough to win 60+ games in Cle but b/c he couldn't get it done in the playoffs they didn't win and he jumped ship to play w/ another superstar.

Exactly, and why the hell should he leave it up to Gm's and coaches who he plays for. He had 32 teams wanting his services. He found 2 other guys that he trusts and decided, hey I wanna play with them in the greatest city in the world.

He didn't go to New York, he went to one of the best vacation Cities in the world.
 
Kobe did quit but luckily for him that didn't last.



Micahel, against this weak league would w/o question have won at leasta title in the last 3-4 years w/ Cleveland and probably more than one.

I am NOT a Knick fan, I am NOT an NBA fan. NBA basketball is boring, the finals last year was some of the worst played basketball I have ever seen so let's put this notion to bed that I wanted Lebron. As a basketball fan I did want him to stay in Cleveland and help get that franchise over the hump cementing his legacy in this game but he took the easy way out which is disappointing as a basketball fan.



They still have to win but it's alot easier to win when you join an all-star team. He wanted a ready made team, he didn't want to keep building in Cleveland. He had teams good enough to win 60+ games in Cle but b/c he couldn't get it done in the playoffs they didn't win and he jumped ship to play w/ another superstar.



He didn't go to New York, he went to one of the best vacation Cities in the world.

Miami is the greatest city in the world Sir, NYC is a dump, filled with overpriced "luxury" spots.

You can say all you want that your not a Knick fan I know you are. Hey Jordan was great, we all know that. Move on. Lebron is not Jordan. He is a grown man, he can play in whatever city he wants to. He knew that he was never going to have the fire power to win the Cleavland. Did you critize JT for signing with the Jets?
 
They still have to win but it's alot easier to win when you join an all-star team. He wanted a ready made team, he didn't want to keep building in Cleveland. He had teams good enough to win 60+ games in Cle but b/c he couldn't get it done in the playoffs they didn't win and he jumped ship to play w/ another superstar.

I love this.

Of course he didn't want to keep building. We've seen that of those 60+ wins, LeBron was responsible for 45+ of those wins.

But what I really love is how you say that LeBron played on a TEAM good enough to win 60+ games but when the playoffs come around it's HE who didn't do this and didn't do that or step up and blah blah blah lol. And you say you don't have an agenda.

Of course he jumped ship. Gilbert gave him the choice to either sink or swim. I don't know about you but I don't want to drown when I know I can swim.

You were rooting for Cleveland; not LeBron. You wanted to see Cleveland get over the hump because you know they're a piss **** franchise. And you knew they needed LeBron to do that. And when it didn't happen and LeBron left, you played the wrong person. Instead of blaming LeBron you should have blamed Dan Gilbert. Gilbert is the reason the Cavaliers didn't get over that hump and he's the reason they hadn't got over the hump in previous years.

Kobe is unhappy, Jerry Buss steps up. LeBron is unhappy Dan Gilbert sits on his thumbs.

THAT is why Cleveland didn't get over the hump. LeBron needed another "A" player to get it done just like Magic needed, just like Bird needed, just like Jordan needed, and just like Kobe needed. NONE of those four ever won ANYTHING without another "A" type player beside them. Hell, Magic and Bird had TWO "A" guys and no one discredits their accomplishments.

Why?
 
They still have to win but it's alot easier to win when you join an all-star team. He wanted a ready made team, he didn't want to keep building in Cleveland. He had teams good enough to win 60+ games in Cle but b/c he couldn't get it done in the playoffs they didn't win and he jumped ship to play w/ another superstar.

I love this.

Of course he didn't want to keep building. We've seen that of those 60+ wins, LeBron was responsible for 45+ of those wins.

But what I really love is how you say that LeBron played on a TEAM good enough to win 60+ games but when the playoffs come around it's HE who didn't do this and didn't do that or step up and blah blah blah lol. And you say you don't have an agenda.

Of course he jumped ship. Gilbert gave him the choice to either sink or swim. I don't know about you but I don't want to drown when I know I can swim.

You were rooting for Cleveland; not LeBron. You wanted to see Cleveland get over the hump because you know they're a piss **** franchise. And you knew they needed LeBron to do that. And when it didn't happen and LeBron left, you blamed the wrong person. Instead of blaming LeBron you should have blamed Dan Gilbert. Gilbert is the reason the Cavaliers didn't get over that hump and he's the reason they hadn't got over the hump in previous years.

Kobe is unhappy, Jerry Buss steps up. LeBron is unhappy Dan Gilbert sits on his thumbs.

THAT is why Cleveland didn't get over the hump. LeBron needed another "A" player to get it done just like Magic needed, just like Bird needed, just like Jordan needed, and just like Kobe needed. NONE of those four ever won ANYTHING without another "A" type player beside them. Hell, Magic and Bird had TWO "A" guys and no one discredits their accomplishments.

Why?
 
Goddamn iPhone lol.

I just don't understand how...

LeBron/Wade

...is any different than...

Magic/Abdul-Jabbar/Worthy

Bird/Parrish/McHale

Jordan/Pippen

Kobe/Shaq/Gasol
 
Goddamn iPhone lol.

I just don't understand how...

LeBron/Wade

...is any different than...

Magic/Abdul-Jabbar/Worthy

Bird/Parrish/McHale

Jordan/Pippen

Kobe/Shaq/Gasol

No difference at all.
 
Miami is the greatest city in the world Sir, NYC is a dump, filled with overpriced "luxury" spots.

You can say all you want that your not a Knick fan I know you are. Hey Jordan was great, we all know that. Move on. Lebron is not Jordan. He is a grown man, he can play in whatever city he wants to. He knew that he was never going to have the fire power to win the Cleavland. Did you critize JT for signing with the Jets?


I'm not a Knick fan and NYC is the greatest City in the world but we are allowed to have different opinions.


Jason Taylor was maybe going to play one or two more years and tried to latch on to us to win a title. Very different than a 26 yeard old in his prime. Lebron took the easy way out.

I love this.

Of course he didn't want to keep building. We've seen that of those 60+ wins, LeBron was responsible for 45+ of those wins.

But what I really love is how you say that LeBron played on a TEAM good enough to win 60+ games but when the playoffs come around it's HE who didn't do this and didn't do that or step up and blah blah blah lol. And you say you don't have an agenda.

Of course he jumped ship. Gilbert gave him the choice to either sink or swim. I don't know about you but I don't want to drown when I know I can swim.

You were rooting for Cleveland; not LeBron. You wanted to see Cleveland get over the hump because you know they're a piss **** franchise. And you knew they needed LeBron to do that. And when it didn't happen and LeBron left, you played the wrong person. Instead of blaming LeBron you should have blamed Dan Gilbert. Gilbert is the reason the Cavaliers didn't get over that hump and he's the reason they hadn't got over the hump in previous years.

Kobe is unhappy, Jerry Buss steps up. LeBron is unhappy Dan Gilbert sits on his thumbs.

THAT is why Cleveland didn't get over the hump. LeBron needed another "A" player to get it done just like Magic needed, just like Bird needed, just like Jordan needed, and just like Kobe needed. NONE of those four ever won ANYTHING without another "A" type player beside them. Hell, Magic and Bird had TWO "A" guys and no one discredits their accomplishments.

Why?

I don't have an agenda, I love watching great players play. I hate watching great players choke which is what Lebron did in the playoffs the last few years. I love how he gets all the credit for winning 60 games yet none of the blame for losing. How does that work exactly?

I rooted for Lebron and Cleveland b/c it was an interesting story. It's good for the league when a great player can take a once mediocre franchise and turn them into champions. Unfortunately Lebron wasn't up to the task.

Gilbert did everything Lebron wanted, that's why they never won.

Lebron needed to make another player into an A player. W/o Jordan Pippen isn't an A player, Duncan didn't have great players around him when SA was winning, the Rockets had Hakeem. Lebron had his chances but blew it and now he wants the world to bow down to him when his all star team wins a championship.

Goddamn iPhone lol.

I just don't understand how...

LeBron/Wade

...is any different than...

Magic/Abdul-Jabbar/Worthy

Bird/Parrish/McHale

Jordan/Pippen

Kobe/Shaq/Gasol

Magic didn't give up, magic didn't demand those other players. The lakers in '79 lost in the west semi's, in '80 they won the title and they did so in agme 6 on the road w/ Kareem hurt.

Bird elevated his team, they won 29 in '79 and 60 in '80 w/ him as a rookie.

Jordan had his teams getting better every year, he was young going up against all time great teams like Bos and Detroit- Lebron didn't have that.

Kobe had Shaq in the first dynasty and those were Shaq's teams but Gasol is not on the level of those other players.
 
I don't have an agenda, I love watching great players play. I hate watching great players choke which is what Lebron did in the playoffs the last few years. I love how he gets all the credit for winning 60 games yet none of the blame for losing. How does that work exactly?

I rooted for Lebron and Cleveland b/c it was an interesting story. It's good for the league when a great player can take a once mediocre franchise and turn them into champions. Unfortunately Lebron wasn't up to the task.

Gilbert did everything Lebron wanted, that's why they never won.

Lebron needed to make another player into an A player. W/o Jordan Pippen isn't an A player, Duncan didn't have great players around him when SA was winning, the Rockets had Hakeem. Lebron had his chances but blew it and now he wants the world to bow down to him when his all star team wins a championship.



Magic didn't give up, magic didn't demand those other players. The lakers in '79 lost in the west semi's, in '80 they won the title and they did so in agme 6 on the road w/ Kareem hurt.

Bird elevated his team, they won 29 in '79 and 60 in '80 w/ him as a rookie.

Jordan had his teams getting better every year, he was young going up against all time great teams like Bos and Detroit- Lebron didn't have that.

Kobe had Shaq in the first dynasty and those were Shaq's teams but Gasol is not on the level of those other players.

I like how you don't give any of the players that supported the stars on any previous NBA winning team any credit and think that Bird, Jordan, Thomas, Duncan and Magic were doing everything on their own.

Detroit, Boston, Orlando, and San Antonio are all teams he lost to in the postseason. All these teams have atleast one star and two or 3 other fantastic role players to accompany them. Name two or three players that surrounded James that could contribute like those role players did. But before you do, just know that I know you will pick out some horrible names b/c of how hard headed and blind you are.

This subject has become asinine b/c you have a rebuttle for everything no matter how silly it really is. Why is it so hard to accept that nobody was going to Cleveland and nobody wants to play there. The only people in this whole entire world that would agree with you are Cavs fans

I also like how if he's healthy and young he's not allowed to leave a dump of a franchise untill he's old with knee problems. Who are you to say how long a player should fail in order to get a pass from "fans" in order to try somewhere else. 7 years, thats half the average life of an NBA player. Thats half an NBA career playing for an owner(or multiple owners) who doesn't know how to run a franchise and is expecting you to sign another long term contract and quite possibly the last long term contract you will ever sign. All the big name free agents went elsewhere.

My favorite part of this whole debate is you say that Jamison was good enough for Lebron to win with but dismiss how much Gasol contributed to Kobe winning the last two finals. Gasol doesn't play his *** off in game 7, Celtics win. Gasol doesn't step up against Howard, Magic probably take it to game 7. Stop being a hater, Jamison sucks and the fact that Mo Williams was contemplating retirement shows how much heart he truly has.
 
I like how you don't give any of the players that supported the stars on any previous NBA winning team any credit and think that Bird, Jordan, Thomas, Duncan and Magic were doing everything on their own.

Detroit, Boston, Orlando, and San Antonio are all teams he lost to in the postseason. All these teams have atleast one star and two or 3 other fantastic role players to accompany them. Name two or three players that surrounded James that could contribute like those role players did. But before you do, just know that I know you will pick out some horrible names b/c of how hard headed and blind you are.

This subject has become asinine b/c you have a rebuttle for everything no matter how silly it really is. Why is it so hard to accept that nobody was going to Cleveland and nobody wants to play there. The only people in this whole entire world that would agree with you are Cavs fans

I also like how if he's healthy and young he's not allowed to leave a dump of a franchise untill he's old with knee problems. Who are you to say how long a player should fail in order to get a pass from "fans" in order to try somewhere else. 7 years, thats half the average life of an NBA player. Thats half an NBA career playing for an owner(or multiple owners) who doesn't know how to run a franchise and is expecting you to sign another long term contract and quite possibly the last long term contract you will ever sign. All the big name free agents went elsewhere.

My favorite part of this whole debate is you say that Jamison was good enough for Lebron to win with but dismiss how much Gasol contributed to Kobe winning the last two finals. Gasol doesn't play his *** off in game 7, Celtics win. Gasol doesn't step up against Howard, Magic probably take it to game 7. Stop being a hater, Jamison sucks and the fact that Mo Williams was contemplating retirement shows how much heart he truly has.

I give their other guys credit but those teams won b/c those stars stepped up in the biggest games unlike Lebron.

I will give him a pass against detroit since that was his first postseason.

I will give him a pass against SA b/c that was his first Finals and SA was experienced at winning titles

I will give him a pass against Boston in 2008.

I cannot give him a pass for the last 2 years. Orlando had very little around Dwight Howard, Lebron thought he won the championship w/ that last second shot early in that series.

Last year Boston who is already old was also really beat up. They had a great chance to win but Lebron was awful in that series.

The bottom line is lebron is a member of the Heat so you guys will defend him no matter what.

He's allowed to do whatever he wants, he was a FA he made his decision BUT a true competitor wouldn't have taken the easy way out. Lebron is not just a star, he is as big of a star as any player in any sport. he is held to a different standard- how often do you see stars as big as him changing teams? It rarely happens.


I don't dismiss Gasol, he's a good player but in your defense of Lebron you try to make it sound like Gasol is Wilt Chamberlain. Someone gave his #s in memphis, I simply countered that Antawn had better #s in DC. Antawn is a good complimentary player.

Mo learned from lebron about heart the way Lebron quit on Cleveland last year.
 
Magic didn't give up, magic didn't demand those other players. The lakers in '79 lost in the west semi's, in '80 they won the title and they did so in agme 6 on the road w/ Kareem hurt.

Bird elevated his team, they won 29 in '79 and 60 in '80 w/ him as a rookie.

Jordan had his teams getting better every year, he was young going up against all time great teams like Bos and Detroit- Lebron didn't have that.

Kobe had Shaq in the first dynasty and those were Shaq's teams but Gasol is not on the level of those other players.

Gasol is an "A" player and you know it. The whole Laker team changed when he got there.

And what the hell are you talkin about Magic never gave up? He didn't have to. He walked into a great team. Bird and Jordan both were on great teams. LeBron NEVER was. LeBron was on below average teams for seven years.
 
Gasol is an "A" player and you know it. The whole Laker team changed when he got there.

And what the hell are you talkin about Magic never gave up? He didn't have to. He walked into a great team. Bird and Jordan both were on great teams. LeBron NEVER was. LeBron was on below average teams for seven years.

Jordan didn't win his first title until his 7th year- did he ask for a trade? did he ty to leave via FA? That's not in his nature, he's the ultimate competitor while Lebron is not.
 
Jordan didn't win his first title until his 7th year- did he ask for a trade? did he ty to leave via FA? That's not in his nature, he's the ultimate competitor while Lebron is not.

No, he pretty much gave them the ultimatim and lobbied for Doug Collins to be fired. You know, the whole its him or me approach?
 
I give their other guys credit but those teams won b/c those stars stepped up in the biggest games unlike Lebron.

I will give him a pass against detroit since that was his first postseason.

I will give him a pass against SA b/c that was his first Finals and SA was experienced at winning titles

I will give him a pass against Boston in 2008.

I cannot give him a pass for the last 2 years. Orlando had very little around Dwight Howard, Lebron thought he won the championship w/ that last second shot early in that series.

Last year Boston who is already old was also really beat up. They had a great chance to win but Lebron was awful in that series.

The bottom line is lebron is a member of the Heat so you guys will defend him no matter what.

He's allowed to do whatever he wants, he was a FA he made his decision BUT a true competitor wouldn't have taken the easy way out. Lebron is not just a star, he is as big of a star as any player in any sport. he is held to a different standard- how often do you see stars as big as him changing teams? It rarely happens.


I don't dismiss Gasol, he's a good player but in your defense of Lebron you try to make it sound like Gasol is Wilt Chamberlain. Someone gave his #s in memphis, I simply countered that Antawn had better #s in DC. Antawn is a good complimentary player.

Mo learned from lebron about heart the way Lebron quit on Cleveland last year.


I love how you are trying to find anything to discredit him. A celebration at the end of game 2? He is a 30% 3 point shooter, was an inch and .3 second away from losing game 2, missed every previous 3 point attempt in that game not to mention he's coming off a 49 point game 1 loss and you want to question him cause of the way he celebrated? You have got to be one of the most ridiculous fans in the world.

Take out Lebron and Howard and have the teams run a 5 on 5, your gonna tell me Cleveland wins? Thats laughable. Orlando beat Boston in 7 and yet they weren't that good of a team? Thats laughable. I asked you before, find all the players that played for both teams that year and tell me where they are in their careers. Almost all of the cleveland squad is either retired or contributing to the longest losing streaks in the NBA.

Last year Boston was old and beat up? Where are you coming up with these things. It took them 7 games to lose to LA. Boston has atleast 2 more years of dominance. Its hilarious that their old last year but yet have the second best record in the league and are still beating the elite teams this year.

I don't think that Gasol is Wilt and never tried to make him out to be that. But in your quest to prove that Lebron has no heart, you've taken away and discredited all that Pippen, McHale, Jabbar, and Gasol have done to contribute to title runs.

Me being a Heat fan has very little to do with me defending his actions, it made me like him more but it had no barring on defending his decision. I've been saying it his whole career that as long as he's a Cav, he's not winning anything.
 
Jordan didn't win his first title until his 7th year- did he ask for a trade? did he ty to leave via FA? That's not in his nature, he's the ultimate competitor while Lebron is not.

Jesus Christ. You have to be trolling lmao. And you're damn good at it. The Bulls were putting guys around Jordan. That's the difference. Jordan had the team. LeBron didn't. And LeBron didn't ask for a trade. He left via free agency. He either HAD to leave or never win a title.

What would you have done junk?
 
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